Weapons for shroud

[RS-Makk]

I am ready to start doing shroud runs, but I want to make sure I am carrying the right stuff as well as to make sure I am using the right weapons against the right monsters.

I am a tempest ranger, and am fairly well equipped. *I have (that I think may be helpful in shroud) the following rapier sets:
+3 Holy Burst of Pure Good x2
+3 Holy Burst of Greater Evil Outsider Bane x2
+3 Metalline of Pure Good x2
Wounding/Puncturing set (rapier + *Short Sword)
Vorpal Kamas x2
Greater Elemental Bane set
Weakening/Enfeebling set (rapier + Short Sword)

I also have a Banishing set (+2 Improved Cursespewing of PG, +3 Banishing), can monsters in Shroud be banished? *Also have a Destruction, Improved Destruction set.

Some questions are:

What's the best weapons for which shroud monsters?

For trash mobs, should I be using my DPS weapons (HB of PG, or HB of GEOB), the W/P set, or the vorpals?

Any need for a W/E set? (Have one of those also)

Anything I am missing?

For portal beaters I have a GCB set, but they aren't rapiers or short swords and I think my HB of PG rapiers will be better given I'll get more bonuses from them (racial bonuses) and much more crits given I have Improved critical: puncturing.

Thanks

[Lorien_the_First_One]

+3 Holy Burst of Pure Good x2 portals, non DR minibosses
+3 Metalline of Pure Good x2 devil beater
Vorpal Kamas x2 trash mobs

you are fine

[Vanshilar]

The weapons that you want for shroud are the following:
Part 1: portal-beaters. Portals are lawful evil constructs, so weapons of greater construct bane (preferably with anarchic or holy as the prefix) are best. Note that portals are immune to elemental damage (acid, fire, etc.), so those prefixes won't help. Also, portals have 100% fort, so crits won't work, although burst effects (i.e. magical damage that occurs on crit rolls) still work.
Part 2: Mini-bosses. Mostly just your DPS weapon, although some may have resists. A greater elemental bane set might be useful here (since a fire elemental and an earth elemental are possible min-bosses), but realistically, just DPS weapons.
Part 3: None.
Part 4: Boss-beaters, weapons that have both damtype "good" and damtype "silver" on the same weapon, since the boss has DR 15/silver and 15/good on normal. It looks like you already have a few (metalline of pure good works). Also consider using your greater evil outsider bane set; GEOB is worth about 15 damage, so the holy burst on that set will actually give you more damage than the pure good on your metalline/pure good set on normal difficulty (use your metalline of pure good on higher difficulties however).
Part 5: Same thing as part 4. However, initially, you fight some mini-bosses, so have those ready as well.

In part 1, part 2, and part 5, there are also some trash mobs. For those, you'll want to use vorpals.

When I do shroud, I keep the following weapons on hotbar: 1) standard DPS 2) vorpal 3) portal beater 4) boss beater (and a fifth one for elementals). That's pretty much all you need.

[sirgog]

Use Holy Burst of Greater Evil Outsider Bane on the boss if running Normal, Metalline of Pure Good if Hard/Elite. (HB of GEOB won't beat DR, but does 19-20 more damage per swing than M/PG - more than enough to account for the DR of 15.)

For trash, use DPS weapons on anything that isn't an Orthon. Vorpals work better on Orthons.

For the portals, use the Holy Burst of Pure Good.

[Matuse]

+3 Holy Burst of Pure Good x2

Use these on Portals and on all of the mini-bosses in phases 2 & 5 except the Devil, Orthon, and Bezekira.

+3 Holy Burst of Greater Evil Outsider Bane x2

Use these on the Devil, Orthon, and Bezekira mini-bosses in phases 2 & 5.

+3 Metalline of Pure Good x2

Use these on Harry.

Vorpal Kamas x2

Use these on everything else.

[sirgog]

Ignore the people suggesting that you use the Metalline/PG weapons instead of the Holy Burst of Greater banes on Arraetrikos, it's bad advice if you are running Normal.

Greater Bane alone is only 0.5 damage per swing less than beating DR (Greater Bane averages 14.5 damage, beating DR is worth 15) - and Holy Burst is much, much better than pure good.

The HB/GEOB weapons are better than Holy Silver ones would be.

[RS-Makk]

Thanks all. This has been very helpful.

[Grecan]

Like the op, i'm a Tempest who hasn't run Shroud yet.

I understand from the above answers that at difficulties higher than normal, metalline of pg weapons are the best to use against Harry.

The case however with me is that i'm a chaotic neutral character, with zero umd, so i can't use metalline of pg weapons.

I can either use metalline weapons, or true chaos of pure good weapons (the only pg weapons i can use).

Would they work better than a holy burst of GEOB on Arraetrikos? What are the best weapons i could use against him?

I think he is lawful, so if i used true chaos of pg weapons against him, he would take damage both from the chaotic and the good part of those weapons, is this right?

[Matuse]

The case however with me is that i'm a chaotic neutral character, with zero umd, so i can't use metalline of pg weapons.

Then look for Metalline Flametouched Iron, or Holy Silver.

I can either use metalline weapons, or true chaos of pure good weapons (the only pg weapons i can use).

Metalline by itself is useless against Harry. True Chaos Of Pure Good will hit 2d6 in chaotic/good damage, but the primary weapon damage will be severely blunted by his DR.

Would they work better than a holy burst of GEOB on Arraetrikos?

No. The GEOB by itself would outdamage any of those other options. Holy Burst would tie the other weapons. Combined together, and for the critical hits which will leak some weapon damage past his DR (plus the extra bursting), and it's the far superior option.

[Grecan]

Ok, thanks for your answers

I've got some more questions though:

--> If my Tempest can't find Metalline Flametouched Iron or Holy Silver weapons, and his best weapons against Arraetrikos are Holy burst of GEOB or GLOB, will he be unable to contribute meaningfully to a party fighting him on above normal difficulties? Can this cause me hard time getting into such a group?

--> Are Min II weapons similar to metalline of pg, but without the alignment restrictions? Should this be my no.1 choice of greensteel weapons to craft?

[Matuse]

Doubtful anyone would really notice if you didn't have exactly the right weapons.

Also, in my experience, doing the Shroud in anything BUT Normal almost never happens. There's no increase in ingrediant drops, so there's seldom any reason to do anything but normal except for epeen and maybe favor.

A Mineral weapon is high on the list of almost everyone who is interested in melee. When you make a Mineral weapons, one of the first two tiers needs to be a positive effect. This could be 10% healing amp (for example), but in an offensive weapon you will either want Holy on the first tier, or Holy Burst on the second tier. Either of those will give the /Good that is required to break devil DR. When you do the third upgrade, as a special bonus it will also gain the Metalline property. This effectively turns it into a weapon with 6 prefixes. Holy (Burst) Acid (Burst) [You either get Acid + Holy Burst, or Holy + Acid Burst] Acid Blast Metalline Slicing Keen <weapon> of..err, well, nothing. No suffixes. It will not have any alignment restrictions.

[sirgog]

Ok, thanks for your answers

I've got some more questions though:

--> If my Tempest can't find Metalline Flametouched Iron or Holy Silver weapons, and his best weapons against Arraetrikos are Holy burst of GEOB or GLOB, will he be unable to contribute meaningfully to a party fighting him on above normal difficulties? Can this cause me hard time getting into such a group?

--> Are Min II weapons similar to metalline of pg, but without the alignment restrictions? Should this be my no.1 choice of greensteel weapons to craft?

Seldom do people run hard/elite (although more people are starting to do so - both as it's more fun in a solid group and for XP on geared-out TR's). On Hard/Elite, metalline/PG is far superior to HB/GEOB - but on Elite, where Harry has about double hit points and +12 to his AC, you'll want either a Mineral 2 weapon or a Holy Silver of (insert useful suffix here, something like Evil Outsider Bane, Greater is gravy).

Min 2 weapons are most commonly crafted as +5 Holy Acid Burst Acid Blast Metalline Slicing Keen (and get enhanced base damage and enhanced durability). Builds that care about AC tend to sacrifice Acid Blast for a +4 Insight bonus to AC.

Slicing is +1d4 damage to *most* foes, Acid Blast is like Acid Burst minus Acid, plus a little bonus on a natural 20. Note the Holy and Metalline - that combination breaks Pit Fiend and Marilith DR (Holy/Silver and Holy/Cold Iron) as well as some other random DRs like Stoneskin (Adamantine).

[LordPiglet]

Ok, thanks for your answers

I've got some more questions though:

--> If my Tempest can't find Metalline Flametouched Iron or Holy Silver weapons, and his best weapons against Arraetrikos are Holy burst of GEOB or GLOB, will he be unable to contribute meaningfully to a party fighting him on above normal difficulties? Can this cause me hard time getting into such a group?

--> Are Min II weapons similar to metalline of pg, but without the alignment restrictions? Should this be my no.1 choice of greensteel weapons to craft?

Don't just hold out for your favorite weapons either, look at all sorts of them. You can find silver holy at low levels (my LN exploiter picked up a lvl 6 silver holy mace).

[Angar]

I use Holy silver and min2 weapons on my neutral fighter for Harry, and min2's on my rogue. Vorpals for any trash (I just keep the min2s on my rogue because of assassinate 2 and 3), and whatever works best on each red mob (usually min2s or hb/pg, etc)

Min 2 is great against harry and such, but lightning 2 is just as good if not a hair better, and you don't have to switch out from the mini-bosses. Lightning 2 does 650 damage every ~33-50 swings. Worst cast scenario would be 50 swings, which averages to 650/50, or 13 damage per swing, almost equal to the 15DR you lose from not swinging silver. Most people say the lightning strike hits 3%, which means every 33 swings, or an extra ~20 damage per swing average, more than the min2 would add for bypassing DR.

Far as I know, none of the mobs in shroud are immune to lightning.

[Matuse]

At around level 8 I found a +1 anarchic silver scimitar of pure good that I'm particularly fond of. Not only a great Harry beater, but it thumps the high priest of vol in Litany.

Course, I also made it Icy Burst :P