new character build challenge

[hockeyrama]

Here is the challenge idea:
The goal is to take a character and run to level 20 solo and make the most out of one class without relying on parties or gear.
Rules:
1. must start character form level 1 and complete to level 20.
2. must use no tomes or buy any items form the AH, and no crafting as well.
3. must stay one class all the way to level 20.
4. You can use any race and class but cannot use 32 pt build (this to make it more fair for newer players, not restricting classes like monk, and FVS, mainly due to allowing some experienced players options). no TR or other advantage.
5. You must solo everything, no parties at all. This way it not based on who you know but you and how wel you play.
6. You can use any adventure packs but no guest passes (again relying on someone else (was going to restrict this but again have to allow experienced players some options)
7. YOu cannot receive any items, or cash or anything from the mail. If you have another character on the server you can't transfer anything to this one.


If you want to add or change any rules let me know, i just started a monk based off these criterias and he at level 3. So if you want to make changes to the challenge let me know before I get to far. I thin kthis gives an interesting challenge.

My character so far

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

can't  remember
Level 3 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(3 Monk) 
Hit Points: 70
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 2\2
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 8
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 3)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               14                    15
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 3)
Balance               3                     3
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         6                     9
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  2                     2
Hide                  3                     5
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  2                     4
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         3                     5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  5                     7
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      1                     2

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I

Good luck, let's see who can make the ultimate solo character.

[sephiroth1084]

Why no multiclassing? That seems like a silly restriction.

[toughguyjoe]

WF Sorc.

FTW

[Dartwick]

You have so many restriction that it seems like a waste to bother.


But ya WF sorc seems kind of obvious.

[TThorlord]

the challenge seems interesting.
but the rules are pretty stupid.
no multiclassing? sure its doable, but why the hell restrict this it seems throwing a healer on a class would make this easier.

the no transferring items rule is fine, but no 32pt is fairly silly. its a minor difference between a 28 and 32pt build. and im gonna make my character 32pt build if i have it because ****** i dont like intentionally gimping my characters!

[hockeyrama]

The original goal was to see how to take one class and see how far you can take it. If you allow multiclass then you run into the ability to overcome the weakness of a single class. Example throw in 2 rogue levels and you can do trpas with gear. The idea I was going for is to see how to overcome the strengths and weakness of a class.

There are many restrictions to make it even for both experienced and newer players. If I left it with less restrictions then new players would have no chance. Example: throw a few tomes to a character and they meet requirements a new player cannot (lke add tome for strength to qualify for power attack, add one to dex to qualify for two weapon fighting.....).

What I am trying to do is level the plyaing field a bit. THis allows new players to make builds and try to compete with experienced players. It about who can make the best character for their class. It is suppossed to be a challenge.

I have seen many builds here and they all have shown how to make a great character. Almost all are multiclass and almost all have comments like take this tome at this level... or where this item. Many new players do not have these. This way we would do a competition that shows that you can maximize and play a class to it's fullest in a way that is fair and a level playing field.

I don't think any of the roles are too strict. It about game play and feat, and enhancement choices for your build. YOu have to plan, work hard and show you can do it. NOt just transfer tomes form another character, send loot from another character, go buy stuff you wold neve get at AH, or anything else that makes it extremely easy to get great gear. The idea is you are to survive on the path that the character class is.

It is suppossed to be chalenging. However, it also suppossed ot be fair for everyone. The multi-classing is an example of an option that could be changed. I just think it makes it more of a challenge. We could take it out but then that takes away one of the main goals. I want to see whcih classes people can take on their own to level 20. It puts a different spin on how you build your character instead of building for a group where others fix your weakness, you have to find away yourself.

[hockeyrama]

the challenge seems interesting.
but the rules are pretty stupid.
no multiclassing? sure its doable, but why the hell restrict this it seems throwing a healer on a class would make this easier.

the no transferring items rule is fine, but no 32pt is fairly silly. its a minor difference between a 28 and 32pt build. and im gonna make my character 32pt build if i have it because ****** i dont like intentionally gimping my characters!

so you say you are intentionally gimping your characters with a 32 point build and yet new characters canot build 32 point builds. This the main point. It a challenge for experienced players to compete with new players on as level a field as possible. Yes, making it a multi-class makes it easier but I was trying to make it a challenge. If it too easy then everyone can do it. I want to see who can. This why it a challenge and a challenge for both experienced and new players.

You know it is ok to do things that are a bit difficult. A challenge is suppossed to be hard. IF easy then why do it, you prove nothing. If it a bit harder then you can say you did it. If I allow some of the things like TR, or 32pt build then experienced players get an unfair advantage. If it too hard or unfair then don't do the challenge I am sure there are others who can prove that the experienced players are able to compete on a fair playing field with the newer players.

[sephiroth1084]

Even after your explanation I don't understand why you're barring multiclassing. The "challenge" as it were, is already challenge enough with the other restrictions (solo-only to 20, no purchased or twink gear, 28 pts.). Including the 'no multiclassing' rule just ties a lot of hands, and largely invalidates how well a character is built, and puts much more focus on individual player skill (a good thing) and luck of the draw with items (a bad thing).

Speaking of items, I think it would be far more relevant to prescribe allowable items to be purchased off the AH at certain levels. Such as "You may buy 1 +6 stat item at level 15, and another at 17 and 19."

[hockeyrama]

To be fair then i will state that you can multi-class as the purpose is to see you make it to level 20 by knowing your build, a multiclass player has disadvantages as well as pure. The saying when you try to do everything you do nothing well comes to mind. However, the no purchase of AH stuff is because you can get items there that would be unavailable or very difficult to get in game. Also, no trading with other players should also be encouraged as the idea is that you are a person surviving the game. You ahve to make it through all the trials and tribulations. Unlike real life you can die and come back but in general you have to deal with the way things are. Sometimes you don't have all the gear but with excellent gameplay and some good thining you can make use of the stuff you have. I see too many players wearing alot of excellent gear that they did not earn themselves. THe goal is to see if you can build a good solo character and rely on yourself, instead of a party, instead of gear bought from AH or gear given from guildies or your other player on the server. Just want to see if you can "make it on your own". It just an idea as I think many players are relying too often on certain uber gear they pass on from character to character. THis way it based on your play style and your ability to make the most of your character.

[Dartwick]

If you just want a challenge instead of fun why not also make rule that you cant wear armor. And maybe you have to play with the left hand only.

Rules to keep it balanced for noonbs make sense - arbitrary rules to make it annoying dont make sense.

[lord_of_rage]

There are entirely too many rule for this to be remotely fun. And before eu came about with casual and scaling this would be close to impossible with the rules you have put in place.

[Chillie]

To all of you that posted his idea of a challenge is not fair in the ways your talking about I personally must say... I disagree with you all. I see his reasoning in it, We are getting "soft" on how D&D really is meant to be. The multie classing is an advantage to any character build for it adds to your extra skills a normal class that you originally took with the first class type wouldn't have. Take that away and you must use your own game knowledge of the class you choose to take and must use it in the environments to survive in. Another words no free meal ticket. Use your wits people it IS a challenge.

It does not mean we have to go do every quest in the game in ordering to get to level 20 for there is way to many to do in the first place. I love the idea and would love to see more of you actually doing it just to show your CAN and stop complaining. There is all kinds of ways for us to take advantages in games but this is the only way to really know what you can do with what you know. Hell I will do it. Yes it will be hard but isn't life that way just about everywhere all ready.

[Chillie]

Here is the challenge idea:
The goal is to take a character and run to level 20 solo and make the most out of one class without relying on parties or gear.
Rules:
1. must start character form level 1 and complete to level 20.
2. must use no tomes or buy any items form the AH, and no crafting as well.
3. must stay one class all the way to level 20.
4. You can use any race and class but cannot use 32 pt build (this to make it more fair for newer players, not restricting classes like monk, and FVS, mainly due to allowing some experienced players options). no TR or other advantage.
5. You must solo everything, no parties at all. This way it not based on who you know but you and how wel you play.
6. You can use any adventure packs but no guest passes (again relying on someone else (was going to restrict this but again have to allow experienced players some options)
7. YOu cannot receive any items, or cash or anything from the mail. If you have another character on the server you can't transfer anything to this one.


If you want to add or change any rules let me know, i just started a monk based off these criterias and he at level 3. So if you want to make changes to the challenge let me know before I get to far. I thin kthis gives an interesting challenge.

My character so far

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

can't  remember
Level 3 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(3 Monk) 
Hit Points: 70
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 2\2
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 8
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 3)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               14                    15
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 3)
Balance               3                     3
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         6                     9
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  2                     2
Hide                  3                     5
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  2                     4
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         3                     5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  5                     7
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      1                     2

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I

Good luck, let's see who can make the ultimate solo character.

I think it is a very good idea, everyone who thinks it is not or just complains about it shouldn't do it. Why not raise the stakes of D&D and game-UP to it. haha then we all will have something to really talk about when we get through a challenge.

[lord_of_rage]

To all of you that posted his idea of a challenge is not fair in the ways your talking about I personally must say... I disagree with you all. I see his reasoning in it, We are getting "soft" on how D&D really is meant to be. The multie classing is an advantage to any character build for it adds to your extra skills a normal class that you originally took with the first class type wouldn't have. Take that away and you must use your own game knowledge of the class you choose to take and must use it in the environments to survive in. Another words no free meal ticket. Use your wits people it IS a challenge.

It does not mean we have to go do every quest in the game in ordering to get to level 20 for there is way to many to do in the first place. I love the idea and would love to see more of you actually doing it just to show your CAN and stop complaining. There is all kinds of ways for us to take advantages in games but this is the only way to really know what you can do with what you know. Hell I will do it. Yes it will be hard but isn't life that way just about everywhere all ready.

Im sorry but to say that you cant multiclass or use 32pt builds is bogus. Those of us who have been playing for a long time, and did the grind for the favor are being penalized. This game has removed the challenges we used to have. But to say you cant multiclass is going against the grain of what DnD is. You comment on us going soft but you have a oct 09 join date. This means you have never expierenced the game with the pre EU easy button, or not having all the nice lowbie gear from korthos right there for you. Where any decently rolled character can solo stk completely untwinked. Where as before parties commonly wiped if they were not set up right.

Ill take the challenge but Im not going to not use the 32pt builds I earned or not multiclass.

[jaxxor20xx]

4. You can use any race and class but cannot use 32 pt build (this to make it more fair for newer players, not restricting classes like monk, and FVS, mainly due to allowing some experienced players options). no TR or other advantage.

Actually, I see a flaw here. All races are allowed, but no 32 point builds? Then the Drow race needs to be restricted because characters created as such are still treated as 32 points instead of 28 points like the others.

So either restrict Drow or allow 32 point builds please.

Thanks for hearing me out.

------------------------------------

You're drunken Dwarf friend,
Grumar

[Chillie]

It's bogus to those that want to use it cause it is put in the game for us to use. I play a WF fighter and it is level 20 without a 32 point build or multieclass it is doable. I unlocked everything up to the favored soul and haven't used it yet so then why would it be stupid not to go with out it. Take away all advantages and what do we have, a hardcore challenge is what. the 32 point build gives us 4 extra stat buffs same as taking a +1 or +2 tome and that yields and advantage we normal couldn't get when we first make a character from scratch. I have nothing against multie classing but again is it and advantage say for example if there is a secret door to find that we dont need to mess with we could do it due to the multie class we added. That is if you was a fighter you normally couldn't open it at a higher level. We don't need extra's to survive we just need to get through the challenge.

[Chillie]

Actually, I see a flaw here. All races are allowed, but no 32 point builds? Then the Drow race needs to be restricted because characters created as such are still treated as 32 points instead of 28 points like the others.

So either restrict Drow or allow 32 point builds please.

Thanks for hearing me out.

------------------------------------

You're drunken Dwarf friend,
Grumar

Yes you are right about that the Drow does need to be removed from the challenge for it already has the 32p built-in. This will defeat the challenge all together.

[hockeyrama]

Actually, I see a flaw here. All races are allowed, but no 32 point builds? Then the Drow race needs to be restricted because characters created as such are still treated as 32 points instead of 28 points like the others.

So either restrict Drow or allow 32 point builds please.

Thanks for hearing me out.

------------------------------------

You're drunken Dwarf friend,
Grumar

I have never played a drow and forget it gets the bonus as if it a 32 point build so yea I would agree with it not being used. AS mentioned before the idea is doing the character as close to base as possible. I allow the different types of classes FVS, and monk eventhough they have to be unlocked as they a different class and have strenths and weaknesses just like any class. However, the drow get 32pt buid so yea, I would not use it for the challenge and would say it goes against it.

Also, of note I am an old pen and paper player. So the origins of DnD that I was brought up with you had severe penalties and restrictions on multi-classing and in the belief in how DnD is based I feel it better to see how a pure class plays out where you have to figure out how to survive your weaknesses and use your strengths. Heck, even neverwinter nights and all the other dnd based games had limits restricting multiclassing and yet here you can take 3 for free and all nowhere near the same level. If you muli-classed originally you had to split it equally between classes. So I was thinking the purest way to prove your ability is to prove you can do it on a pure class, and without alot of extras (tomes, AH, 32 pt build). However, as mentioned it a challenge and I understand not everyone wants a challenge. I know most people go online and read about every adventure beforehand (so they know where every trap and chest is) and they read about how to obtain all the uber gear by running a certain quest 5-10 or more times. What I am trying to see if there is any pure DnD players who want to challenge DDO and show they can do it on their own. That is my thought process. I will follow the original rules and bring my monk to level 20. I will solo verything, buy nothing from AH, and only use items that drop in quests for me and stuff I buy from a vendor (as it makes sense to sell your stuff at a store and grab what is there, too much gear to carry everything). If you not interested, fine, get your +3 tomes and build your uber guy and go about your business of killing everything with the gear you got form your last character. I just thought some people might like something different.

[Chillie]

I have never played a drow and forget it gets the bonus as if it a 32 point build so yea I would agree with it not being used. AS mentioned before the idea is doing the character as close to base as possible. I allow the different types of classes FVS, and monk eventhough they have to be unlocked as they a different class and have strenths and weaknesses just like any class. However, the drow get 32pt buid so yea, I would not use it for the challenge and would say it goes against it.

Also, of note I am an old pen and paper player. So the origins of DnD that I was brought up with you had severe penalties and restrictions on multi-classing and in the belief in how DnD is based I feel it better to see how a pure class plays out where you have to figure out how to survive your weaknesses and use your strengths. Heck, even neverwinter nights and all the other dnd based games had limits restricting multiclassing and yet here you can take 3 for free and all nowhere near the same level. If you muli-classed originally you had to split it equally between classes. So I was thinking the purest way to prove your ability is to prove you can do it on a pure class, and without alot of extras (tomes, AH, 32 pt build). However, as mentioned it a challenge and I understand not everyone wants a challenge. I know most people go online and read about every adventure beforehand (so they know where every trap and chest is) and they read about how to obtain all the uber gear by running a certain quest 5-10 or more times. What I am trying to see if there is any pure DnD players who want to challenge DDO and show they can do it on their own. That is my thought process. I will follow the original rules and bring my monk to level 20. I will solo verything, buy nothing from AH, and only use items that drop in quests for me and stuff I buy from a vendor (as it makes sense to sell your stuff at a store and grab what is there, too much gear to carry everything). If you not interested, fine, get your +3 tomes and build your uber guy and go about your business of killing everything with the gear you got form your last character. I just thought some people might like something different.

Point taken, I am a pen and paper my self i miss it. Guess i also should have mentioned it. I normally don't post in the DDO even though i have been playing DDOU for years. I felt it was time to start... Help my Reputation grow please, good people

[lord_of_rage]

It's bogus to those that want to use it cause it is put in the game for us to use. I play a WF fighter and it is level 20 without a 32 point build or multieclass it is doable. I unlocked everything up to the favored soul and haven't used it yet so then why would it be stupid not to go with out it. Take away all advantages and what do we have, a hardcore challenge is what. the 32 point build gives us 4 extra stat buffs same as taking a +1 or +2 tome and that yields and advantage we normal couldn't get when we first make a character from scratch. I have nothing against multie classing but again is it and advantage say for example if there is a secret door to find that we dont need to mess with we could do it due to the multie class we added. That is if you was a fighter you normally couldn't open it at a higher level. We don't need extra's to survive we just need to get through the challenge.

Again you joined in oct 09.What ddo is now is not a challenge. Soloing used to require the best gear you could get per lvl, skill, and a build set to solo. Now anyone can solo most content. It is trivial to cap a toon these days. You have the store, xp pots, and difficulty scaling. I have capped several 32 point builds before EU was released. I ran them continually as 28 point untill greater rez was released. I earned my favor. I didnt purchase 28 point builds off the store. Noone is saying you cant run or cap a 28 pt build. But you didnt solo your 28 pt wf fighter to cap. And just because you havent rolled an FVS doesnt mean alot of us dont use the class. I doubt you could roll that same wf fighter and solo him to cap without twink gear.

As for finding a door on a fighter its called detect secret door clickies you can regularly find in quest drops. But forcing people to run a pure class is too restrictive. If you really want that then I welcome you to go play another mmo. Personally I like a 18wis/2 rogue WF in 32pt. Its one of the best solo builds in the game. So is the tukaw style build.