Multiclass Prejudice?

[Lleren]

Stop trying to brown your nose behind people who cant admit they are wrong.

One cleric level will allow you to use divine wands (without soaking skillpoints in UMD), and 2 rogue isn't better then one with the improved evasion you can get at level 10...Point blank if people can't accept those two truths...go see for yourself.

Do I make you "NOOBS" look bad by arguing with someone who says there is no reason to take one level of cleric?
Yeah then look again and see how more people then you know are doing it and you are buttering up to other posters trying to get rep without effort...

"Oh I agree...oh please let me lay down my loincloth for you..I'll do anything for you to like me"

Sick man real sick

UMD would be worth taking for a Rogue if all it did was allow us to use raciall/alignment restricted gear. Considering that we can use scrolls to Raise the bleeping Dead with it, allong with other wand and scroll use makes it a no brainer to take.

[Eladiun]

Stop trying to brown your nose behind people who cant admit they are wrong.

One cleric level will allow you to use divine wands (without soaking skillpoints in UMD), and 2 rogue isn't better then one with the improved evasion you can get at level 10...Point blank if people can't accept those two truths...go see for yourself.

Do I make you "NOOBS" look bad by arguing with someone who says there is no reason to take one level of cleric?
Yeah then look again and see how more people then you know are doing it and you are buttering up to other posters trying to get rep without effort...

"Oh I agree...oh please let me lay down my loincloth for you..I'll do anything for you to like me"

Sick man real sick

Says the King of Noobs and Lord of Bad Advice...

[Shaftronics]

Tell me about it. I have seen 2 levels of rogue "for myself", while I flaunt my self-buffed UMD while i whip around Stoneskin and Blur wands, as well as using racial/alignment restricted items with no penalty on my True Neutral Tempest Fighter who can also wand whip cure serious. Oh, I also rush in head-first into enemy clerics casting flamestrike and cometfall and other what-have-you AOEs from wizards while receiving minimum damage, if I wasn't sniping them with a weakening bow with multishot on.

I can't wait 'till I can use Heal Scrolls for off-healing, for at least a 50% chance at using 'em.

[GhoulsTouch]

Multi-class is okay as long as you are aware of both the strengths and weaknesses of it.
Some people can't admit that though they may be stronger in one aspect they are weaker in others.

[Kyrn]

Heavy Armor, usually a flanker decent DPS from sneak, lots of resists and buffs, real decent heals, and offensive casting...awesome support character if you ask me.

By wearing heavy armour, you lose evasion.

How about a 9 barb 9 rogue 2 fighter? barbarians get the same improved trap sense like rogues do every 3 levels but have damage resistances/reductions for physical and elemental, they have higher hp and can stay in combat when they pull aggro much longer then your normal rogue could.

Barbarians don't get elemental resistances.

Also if he was taking a beating, he has the speed to run off to recover or catch up after disabling the traps that the party just ran through and zerged ahead with stones in their packs. But the dummy would be like...9 rogue gimp...not knowing that the gimp would be hitting for 4d6 (plus!) extra damage alongside the tank and can take some heavy hits and geared also with power strike well...that sneak attack bonus to hit could be sacrificed for awesome damage.

I think you are the only one who thinks that this build might even remotely be considered gimp.

Class warfare...give me a break. PnP D&D's prestige classes were designed primarily for multi classed characters. Some people are just old school in thinking that the capstone is always best no matter what your build.

And some people are just old school in thinking that pure classes are best at their core and secondary skills.

EDITED due to personal error.

[Phidius]

Perhaps you don't know what "find traps" does. If you have rogue levels, find trap does nothing...

Actually, the spell "Find Traps" does indeed boost your Search skill. Not that a +1 boost is enough to warrant carrying around scrolls of it...

[Phidius]

Multi-class is okay as long as you are aware of both the strengths and weaknesses of it.
Some people can't admit that though they may be stronger in one aspect they are weaker in others.

We've noticed.

[Kyrn]

Actually, the spell "Find Traps" does indeed boost your Search skill. Not that a +1 boost is enough to warrant carrying around scrolls of it...

If it does I've never seen any written information on it. What type of boost is it?

[QuantumFX]

If it does I've never seen any written information on it. What type of boost is it?

it’s an Insight bonus. (Source)

[Kyrn]

it’s an Insight bonus. (Source)

Hm. I'm going to blame it on either time-travel, or personal absentmindedness. I stand corrected.

[QuantumFX]

Hm. I'm going to blame it on either time-travel, or personal absentmindedness. I stand corrected.

Thanks to Find Traps a 2 Rogue/18 Cleric or Favored Soul makes a great solo character. Find Traps buffs your Search skill, your high WIS score can offset a lower spot score and you only need around a 32 UMD for the really nice alignment restricted gear and Fire Shield/Teleport scrolls.

Example 1
Example 2

[Kyrn]

Thanks to Find Traps a 2 Rogue/18 Cleric or Favored Soul makes a great solo character. Find Traps buffs your Search skill, your high WIS score can offset a lower spot score and you only need around a 32 UMD for the really nice alignment restricted gear and Fire Shield/Teleport scrolls.

Example 1
Example 2

Though don't you need just as high disable device for that to be of any use? Granted it does mean you can slack a little on putting points into search.

[QuantumFX]

Though don't you need just as high disable device for that to be of any use? Granted it does mean you can slack a little on putting points into search.

Yes. But you only need to heavily invest in that one skill. (Remember any build with 1 level of rogue can reach a base Disable Device of 23 at level 20.)

Most of the Cleric/FvS builds I've seen go:

Full ranks: Concentration and Disable Device (3 skill points per Cleric/FvS level.)
Half Ranks: Search, Open Lock (2 Skill points per Cleric/FvS level.)
Half Ranks or dump: Spot, Use Magic Device (2 Skill points per Cleric/FvS level.)

7 Skill Points (2 per cleric level, +1 Human, +4 18 INT)

Also, you can get really creative about when you take that 2nd rogue level to fill in your skills. (Personally, I like Character Level 8 as you just ate a +2 INT tome and evasion starts becoming a must.)

Also, as a side note, FvS is really nice for this as they have a fast progression in all saving throws (Like a monk) making evasion a sweet deal for them.

[cdemeritt]

Edited... Late night posting blunder

[Kyrn]

Actually not entirely acurate... Cross class skills still cost 2pts for 1 rank, even if you put points into it when it wasn't a cross class skill, and you can only put 1 pt per lvl if you maxed it...

Wrong. Cross class skills can be upped 1 level so long as you have at least 1 class which has it as a core skill. So you have to spend 2 points per rank, but you can increase 1 whole rank per level.

This is especially relevant to wiz/rogues, which has the int to up 3 (or more) rogue class skills even with the low base skillpoints per level. This is also why wiz/rogues often have higher disable device than a conventional melee rogue.

[Delt]

Actually not entirely acurate... Cross class skills still cost 2pts for 1 rank, even if you put points into it when it wasn't a cross class skill, and you can only put 1 pt per lvl if you maxed it...

Example: Disable Device.... At lvl 1, you take rogue... max this skill to a rank of 4. Next Level you take cleric... DD is now a cross class skill, and 1 pt = .5 rank... only thing is, you can only put 1 pt into it, so at lvl 2, you can your rank would be 4.5.... Now when you take your next lvl of rogue, say at lvl 10, your rank before you start would only be 8... However by taking the 2nd lvl of rogue at 10, you can boost your rank back to lvl+3 or a rank of 13... This is why many people who do the 2 rogue splash wait until around lvl 10 to do so, so they can take better advantage of the extra skill points a rouge gets. This Character, the imaginary 18clr/2rogue would only have a rank of 18 at lvl 20 (rank only, no other bonuses included here). It is possible, that if someone was willing to wait until lvl 19 and 20 to take their 2 lvls of rogue, they possibly could get a 23 DD.... But it would be such a mess..

That is incorrect.

Once a class skill is unlocked, it's unlocked. No matter when you took your rogue level, your max rank at cap is 23.

People take their 2nd rogue level later to maximize/catch up skill point investment (coupled with tomes & stat levels up). 8 base points plus the INT mod is generally wasteful early -- but I guess it depends on what skills you plan to invest in.

[cdemeritt]

Kyrn, Delt... your right... got confused, spaced it..

[PopeJual]

Thanks to Find Traps a 2 Rogue/18 Cleric or Favored Soul makes a great solo character. Find Traps buffs your Search skill, your high WIS score can offset a lower spot score and you only need around a 32 UMD for the really nice alignment restricted gear and Fire Shield/Teleport scrolls.

Example 1
Example 2

I got really excited about this, thinking, "I have a good UMD. I can read some scrolls and get that +10 insight bonus for Search! Who cares if it doesn't last very long..."

Unfortunately, Find Traps gives an insight bonus of 1/2 your caster level which would just be a +1 for the scroll. Maybe I'll find a caster level 10 Wand of Find Traps some day.