Self-Sufficient AoE Melee Druid Theory Build

[Juggle]

"Boom-Goes-the-Thunderclap Build"
Idea by Juggles, spawned from Ranger Theory Build

So after looking at the Ranger Theory build and personally testing it out until level 20, I wanted to find a better, more self-sufficient, and more AoE melee damaging build.

I know, I know, some might just say go monk and Everything is Nothing ftw, but I want something more sustaining, more fun. And yes, this is definitely a godly ability, but I wanted to test something a little more creative. For those who don't know, and are too lazy to check out the link for the Ranger Theory Build, it mainly focused a 12 ranger/7 bard/ 1 fighter mix to dual-wield Fangs of Siberys (which, with Pearls of Thunder, provides roughly anywhere from 50-80 sonic + lightning damage in an AoE that has quite large range to mobs nearby). Along with the side-kicking capabilities of a bow, and improved evasion, it sounded like a fun TR from my old 12brd/6ranger/2fighter virtuoso AA given I already had the Fangs of Siberys on that character. But I found (even though regrettably I was undergeared) that at 20, it lacked endgame self-sufficiency. The idea was great, the damage output pretty nice, and it was definitely fun to play and level. But without quickened heals, and some form of CC other than fascinate, I found myself drawing too much aggro with the AoE effect, and not being able to keep myself alive in the tougher quests at 20. At the same time as wanting to deal AoE damage with the Fangs, came the aggro of all the mobs that it hit if they were not first initially hit by another team member. The Ranger Theory Build took, I find, a more subtle playstyle. A bit of "waiting" in fights for others to draw aggro and then dive in with the Fangs in order to sustain the likeliness of surviveability. But I guess I didn't really realize how much this effects playing a class. If you're one to specialize in sneak attacks, you quite honestly are better NOT zerging (in groups) in order to let someone else take aggro, or in other cases diplomacy and then flank. This was not my playstyle. I'm more of the one to zerg, bb, profit type, and find trouble in not feeling frustrated during quests in thinking that "I wish I was just on my fvs or caster, this group is taking too long and not zerging properly".

I wanted to find more self-sufficiency, more damage output, more AoE, and more zerging. A quest to find a similar "blade barrier multiple mobs and profit" type of class capability, but using melee skills. So without further ado, I give you the
"Boom-Goes-the-Thunderclap" build. Or at least until I think of a better name...

Main Idea:

The main concept here is:

-High Hps
-High Intimidate
-AoE Sonic/Melee Damage
-Self-Sufficiency
-CC

Splashing levels of bard and then taking Fatesinger to 5 just seems killer to me. Extra 5 bardic caster levels, etc (will be explained below).

12 Druid / 6 Bard / 2 Fighter (Fatesinger 5)

Race: Human
Alignment: Neutral Good
TR: Preferably 34-36 pt build

*Given this is just a theory build and looking for player feedback to bat ideas back and forth, I don't personally want to take the time to lay this one out in a planner or detailed skill points per level.*

Build Idea takes me down a twf with Fangs path, or ThF with preferably a +5 Pandemonium Greataxe of "something" (<----this needs some input)

Feats Include: (not necessarily in a specific order, just draughting them down)
1- Toughness
3- Natural Fighting
6- Power Attack
9- Cleave
12- Natural Fighting
15- Maximize/Extend/WF:Slash (if you really wanted the Bard PrE)
18- Icrit Slash
21- Overwhelming Critical
24- Quicken
Ftr Bonus - Great Cleave
Fighter Bonus - Natural Fighting
Human - Imp. Shield Mastery

Selection of Spells includes (but not limited to):

Druid: (Level 6 Spells)

Fire/Cold Shield
Regen Vigors
Ram's Might
Maul Attacks
Resists
Restorations
Roar
Weapon Enchants (for extra damage/bypassers)
Sleet Storm (excellent for epics for CC when Masked Ball for FoM)
Ice Storm
Firewall
Stoneskin
Deathward
Panacea
Res

Bardic Spell List (Level 2 Spells):

More heal spells
Sound Burst
Invis

So enhancements would include:
Bardic Song Magic I, II, III
PreReq for Warchanter + Warchanter I if you wanted the PrE
Lyric of Song I, II
Lyric of Incredible Song I
Inspired Damage I, II
Nature's Warrior I, II
Beastial Nature
Druid's Aggravate I, II, III, IV
Vengeful Hunter I, II
Essence of the Turtel I, II
Reaving RoAr!!!

(just to name some of them ^)

I know pretty vague so far, but here's what the build will primarily be doing. Jump in intimdate everything, and just Reaving Roar, Cleaving/GreatCleaving/Soundburst for massive, massive AoE sonic damage. The fatesinger abilities (such as harmonic resonance for stacking sonic damage on each hit up to 5 times per enemy) will allow for even more mauling. Dire Bear Form obviously will be sustained throughout. Can even throw a firewall or ice storm / sleet storm accordingly in the area you will be mauling.

So now that you all have sort of a feel for what I'm theorizing, I'm very excited to hear lots and lots of positive/negative feedback for how this class will really perform in quests, in groups, solo'ing. And if you think the self-sufficiency will be viable not only at earlier levels, but in epics and epic elites. Healing amp is a must (btw, not sure if monk dile amp stacks with helf amp, but if anybody can 100% verify this and if WAI that'd be great. I do know that Bard Magic and Ranger Devotion for healing capabilities within enhancements DOES stack, so maybe these will too? Not sure). AC may be able to be squeezed in to a certain level? Or maybe it'll be a throwaway and go with a lot of Greensteel guards and Blasting Chime for Cacaphony sonic damage. Fatesinger Dirge Song adds on for more sonic/negative AoE damage and Reign for Vorpaling Sonic/Lightning Damage. I could go on, but let's leave the rest up for you guys to twist in.

Fire away

*** ------- Updates ------- ***

-Decided to go Human for extra feat unless otherwise talked out of...
-Took build to 12/6/2 over 12/7/1 really needed more feats. Though loss of haste/displace saddens me. Perhaps taking a look at 11/7/2. Yeah it looks kind of weird but the only thing you really lose is an extra spell slot of druid 6th level spells, and regain haste/displace whilst still maintaining the feats. Feedback??
-Realized twf'ing two fangs will not do any good in animal form (this might be turning south now, but still seems a very viable build, I may take it over to Lama land to test once I get some more feedback) so decided actually that S&B would be a better route, and to focus heavily on Doublestrike wielding a Pandemonium Shield, and one Fang of Siberys.

[emptysands]

Do Dwarvens Axes and Bastard Swords get Glancing blows in animal form when used with a shield? With Master's Touch you dont even need to burn a feat to use them.

Why HE over Human with and extra feat - say for GTHF. The extra glancing blow maybe is a win over Rogue Dilly. Anyway if you have aggro you'll lose sneak damage.

[Juggle]

Do Dwarvens Axes and Bastard Swords get Glancing blows in animal form when used with a shield? With Master's Touch you dont even need to burn a feat to use them.

I assume they do, but yes you wouldn't need to burn a feat regardless. You will have martial proficiency with the fighter level or master's touch and the Weapon Focus feat is a pre-req for warchanter if that's what you're referring to. S&B I have been considering as an option, but you are also (irrevocably) sacrificing dps, and with S&B comes many other necessary feats if you were to even start thinking about ofcusing on AC which is why if I can't find a sustainable AC whilst in Dire Bear form on this build then I may toss it altogether.

Why HE over Human with and extra feat - say for GTHF. The extra glancing blow maybe is a win over Rogue Dilly. Anyway if you have aggro you'll lose sneak damage.

True true, was thinking if Monk Diletante (not rogue dilly) healing amp stacks with the helf amp (which I'm still not sure of) it's actually more healing amp than human. But yeah the human version for the extra feat actually sounds like it would work out better considering I may be able to fit in both Extend/Maximize + WF:Slash. Great input thanks.

^Probably best to go Human no Helf in this case.

[Munkenmo]

helves have access to 2 types of amp
2 tiers of human healing amp
2 tiers of monk dilly amp

They both stack, the same as they would if you were a human monk.

If you're going to be in bear form why take the 2hf line? it won't do anything, Natural Fighting are the feats for animal forms, they grant improved double strike chances.

Though tbh, both the 2hf line and the natural strike line are weak. Since your in animal form equip a shield, as you don't get off hand procs, so a second weapon will have no effect.
Equipping shields however, or caster sticks with passive / guard effects will provide a boost.

[emptysands]

If you take:

Shield Mastery+Improved shield Mastery Feats - 8%
Natural Fighting Feat x3 - 18%
US twist: Legendary Shield Mastery - 7%
GM twist: Hail of Blows - 3%
And use Shadowdancer for innate 3%
and and Alchemical shield for 6%

You can hit 45% doublestrike and keep the option of using your Fangs of Siberys in shield mode.

Dwarven Axe and Bastard sword are exotic weapons - so 1 fighter does not give proficiency. Master's Touch is Bard 1 spell.

[the613]

the helf monk dilly heal amp is named helf improved recovery. helf also get human improved recovery, and as someone else said, these stack. helf improved recovery is a class based, and human improved recovery is racial. Class based sources stack multiplicatively, so if you have heal amp from another class, it doesn't matter.

Sources: ddowiki.com

[Juggle]

helves have access to 2 types of amp
2 tiers of human healing amp
2 tiers of monk dilly amp

They both stack, the same as they would if you were a human monk.

If you're going to be in bear form why take the 2hf line? it won't do anything, Natural Fighting are the feats for animal forms, they grant improved double strike chances.

Though tbh, both the 2hf line and the natural strike line are weak. Since your in animal form equip a shield, as you don't get off hand procs, so a second weapon will have no effect.
Equipping shields however, or caster sticks with passive / guard effects will provide a boost.

Ahh yes ok, and did not know that two weapons with same effect won't stack in animal stance thanks for that! So now I'm reconsidering S&B and full out doublestrike on this guy...

[Juggle]

If you take:

Shield Mastery+Improved shield Mastery Feats - 8%
Natural Fighting Feat x3 - 18%
US twist: Legendary Shield Mastery - 7%
GM twist: Hail of Blows - 3%
And use Shadowdancer for innate 3%
and and Alchemical shield for 6%

Excellent input, yes I was talking with someone else int eh Ranger Theory build and he recommended perhaps S&B plus Doublestrike out the ***. I definitely though wouldn't use Shadoqdancer for innate 3%, the benefits and build base are completely focused on Fatesinger as it will add levels to my bard caster levels for longer hastes/displace but moreso Harmonic Resonance for extra sonic damage to mobs is critical to the whole "Boom-Goes-the-Thunderclap" build in its entirety. 42% would be fine
You can hit 45% doublestrike and keep the option of using your Fangs of Siberys in shield mode.

Dwarven Axe and Bastard sword are exotic weapons - so 1 fighter does not give proficiency. Master's Touch is Bard 1 spell.

Ahh yes overlooked this, thanks!


Updated original build info, still need a bit more feedback. Thinking maybe 11/7/2?

[sirdanile]

I was thinking of something similar, however do you REALLY need the cleave line of feats? I mean they're nice and all but you already have activated attacks that are awesome via bear innates, if you drop the cleaves you have more feats and can go 7 bard easily... only downside is that you lose the overwhelming critical, however you're doing aoe sonic damage as your main source of damage and I don't think it's that bad of a choice.

[Havok.cry]

This build looks interesting. I hope it does well.

I am now thinking of doing something similar only with a dwarf for THF DAs, somehow.
maybe:
1 toughness
3 power attack
6 THF
9 natural fighting
12 natural fighting
15 natural fighting
18 Icrit bludgeoning (need this for natural attacks)
21 shield mastery
24 Ishield mastery
f ITHF
f GTHF

[sirdanile]

Couple of new thoughts:

Do shield bash enhancements trigger in wolf form? I know the shield mastery ones apply but unsure what else does.
Isnt natural forms affected by focus/feats that affect unarmed fighting?
I truely feel like there needs to be evasion in here for maximum self suffiency, even at 600+hp it isnt uncommon to get torn apart by caster mobs even with resists.

Twists, energy sheathe? Primal scream?

[Therigar]

I have not played a druid all the way thru to L20 so I may have missed something along the way. But, from what I can see based on animations and looking at the base damage numbers, I am not convinced that animal form gives the best DPS.

I have been contemplating a druid build similar in concept but that remains in "human" form and does not take the various animal form enhancements (except as minimally needed to qualify the PrE). My thoughts at the moment range from half-orc (for the additional STR) to elf (for increased base DEX and scimitar racial enhancements).

Fundamentally the idea is maximum STR and CON with just enough DEX to qualify the full TWF line. I always count on tome use so DEX needs only to reach 14.

Anyone with druid experience that can talk to the perception that DPS suffers in wild shape?

[sirdanile]

I have not played a druid all the way thru to L20 so I may have missed something along the way. But, from what I can see based on animations and looking at the base damage numbers, I am not convinced that animal form gives the best DPS.

I have been contemplating a druid build similar in concept but that remains in "human" form and does not take the various animal form enhancements (except as minimally needed to qualify the PrE). My thoughts at the moment range from half-orc (for the additional STR) to elf (for increased base DEX and scimitar racial enhancements).

Fundamentally the idea is maximum STR and CON with just enough DEX to qualify the full TWF line. I always count on tome use so DEX needs only to reach 14.

Anyone with druid experience that can talk to the perception that DPS suffers in wild shape?

In wolf with doublestrike chances and such added on through shield mastery and natural fighting, wolf is about even with twf i'd say just based on feeling.

I don't know about bear, but the main call to the animal forms is the extra enhancements such as gaining 20 temp sp on a crit while in wolf or getting an extra 5% stacking speed up to 5 times from kills while in wolf.

In bear the goal is to get better survivability and Reaving roar - roar translates to "Kill an enemy and all others around take a nice chunk of sonic damage."

[jortann]

Have you thought about taking enough Druid levels to get Fire Elemental form and Body of the Sun. This does a fair amount of AoE damage and you can dual wield.

I don't know if you have seen it, but there is a build out there called the Fruidonk. Some guy called Bairclaw gives a pretty good description of the evolution of it here..... http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=385905

[sirdanile]

After thinking about it for a while, is it even necessary to have bard levels? Inspire courage lasts at least 4 minutes and is granted through fatesinger, and you'll also get 10 songs minimum through the destiny, I suppose haste/displace is nice but we can take 5 levels of wizard and get bonus feats for it.

[Juggle]

I was thinking of something similar, however do you REALLY need the cleave line of feats? I mean they're nice and all but you already have activated attacks that are awesome via bear innates, if you drop the cleaves you have more feats and can go 7 bard easily... only downside is that you lose the overwhelming critical, however you're doing aoe sonic damage as your main source of damage and I don't think it's that bad of a choice.

Sorry took so long to respond, I've been rather busy in game prepping for next TR. That's actually a good idea, re-realizing my main focus would be coming from the aoe sonic damage, another thing though about the cleaves is that when I arc for damage, and am surrounded by mobs, each one that I hit has a chance to proc the Cloudburst, so the more mobs I cleave, the better chance I have for the proc to hit one of them (at least I think it performs like this, and if it doesn't then can be dropped for sure). Thanks

[Juggle]

This build looks interesting. I hope it does well.

I am now thinking of doing something similar only with a dwarf for THF DAs, somehow.
maybe:
1 toughness
3 power attack
6 THF
9 natural fighting
12 natural fighting
15 natural fighting
18 Icrit bludgeoning (need this for natural attacks)
21 shield mastery
24 Ishield mastery
f ITHF
f GTHF

Ahh yes bludgeoning IC duh, lol. Yeah I think I may try it out on Lamma land to see if it's worth the attempt on live.

[Juggle]

After thinking about it for a while, is it even necessary to have bard levels? Inspire courage lasts at least 4 minutes and is granted through fatesinger, and you'll also get 10 songs minimum through the destiny, I suppose haste/displace is nice but we can take 5 levels of wizard and get bonus feats for it.

The need for bard levels is the haste and displace that you'll get, and also the stacking Bard Magic to enhance your healing spells even more ontop of the druid life enhancements. You also will gain the additional 5 bard levels so your hastes and displace will be at caster level 12 instead of 5 if you were to just take fatesinger to 5 and no bard levels, though it is a thought if you don't really care about the haste/displace I suppose. Yeah not a bad idea.

[unbongwah]

Not sure yet if this build's a good idea, but +1 just for the idea of a singing Dire Bear.

3- Natural Fighting

Natural Fighting cannot be taken until druid lvl 9.

I was thinking of something similar, however do you REALLY need the cleave line of feats?

Pre-reqs for Overwhelming Crit and two LD abilities (Momentum Swing & Lay Waste), making them no-brainers for melee DPS builds if you can squeeze them in, IMHO.

[Juggle]

Not sure yet if this build's a good idea, but +1 just for the idea of a singing Dire Bear.

Natural Fighting cannot be taken until druid lvl 9.

Ahh right-o. But as mentioned just kind of threw them on there for the time being in no particular order figuring that I will be reconsidering a few different feats throughout the discussion.

Pre-reqs for Overwhelming Crit and two LD abilities (Momentum Swing & Lay Waste), making them no-brainers for melee DPS builds if you can squeeze them in, IMHO.

^Yes. Good add-in twists.