UMD and Intimidate

[Wyrmnax]

Is it feasible to have UMD and Intimidate on a paladin at half ranks?

I mean, the character will end up with 18 base CHA ( with a +2 tome ), +6 item... that means a 24. Maybe 26 or 28, depending on harder to get stuff, but no matter.

Question is: Is it possible to get UMD and Intimidate into usable levels with 11 skill + 8 charisma bonus?

[sephiroth1084]

Yes with the caveat that you will never be able to get raid bosses with Intim reliably enough for it to be useful in that regard, and getting your UMD high enough to be useful for the important stuff (Heal scrolls notably) will require a fair bit of gear.

[JohnWarlock]

Ok:

18 Base + 3 from Paladin Charisma + 2 tome + 6 stat item = 29 then each 4 leves you can add one point to an attribute so anywhere from 30 to 34 charisma, if you don't touch your strength.

Of course your strength wouldn't be too high to do any serious damage, but you could be an AC paladin anyways

Now at half ranks you'll get 2 points at lvl 1, and .5 per level and we will ignore the last level since it's only .5 and it doesnt round up. So 18 lvls at .5 skill is 9 points.
2 + 9 = 11.

Now lets play with numbers:

34 Charisma: +12 to charisma skills:
20 Levels of skills: +11 to umd and intimidate
Greens steel item: +6 to charisma skills
Head of Good Fortune: +2 to skills

12 + 11 + 6 + 2 = 31 points + 4 (Greater Heroism) = 35 to Charisma skills

35 base + 3 (from Golden Cartouche or Bunny Helmet) = 38 UMD
35 Base + 15 (Intimidate Item) = 50 UMD

Yes you will have to be very specific building this type of character, and yes you will need to have a character totally designed for maxed charisma. I can see having this char a little hindrance to be honest. Since starting with 18 charisma leaves you only 16 ability points to spend. Now if you are human as a paladin you get +1 skills per level, so you can get away with 8 intelligence, any other race needs 10 int. So this type of build can come around with other lower stats. Sadly I've never done an AC build Paladin, so I can't say if you will have an intimitank with high AC. It might be doable Considering the Dragontouch armor only has an AC Max Dex Bonus of +1, you wouldn't need more than 12 dex, and you would have to take something like improve crit piercing and use smiting and banishing rapiers, a vorpal sword and any kind of disruptor you can find. Yet you'd never be able to pull off any dps.

Hope this helps.

P.S. - If I did any mistakes on the math, sorry just woke up and I never double checked my school work :P

[Propane]

A popular build is to spash two levels of rogue. Lv 1 and then again at 7-9ish... You should be able to pump up your UMD and INTI - plus evasion (if you have the right armor / sheild). You could drop a few points in to open lock as well (with a +15 item you can open quite a bit - shroud part 3 and others).

[sephiroth1084]

A popular build is to spash two levels of rogue. Lv 1 and then again at 7-9ish... You should be able to pump up your UMD and INTI - plus evasion (if you have the right armor / sheild). You could drop a few points in to open lock as well (with a +15 item you can open quite a bit - shroud part 3 and others).

Yeah.

Another popular splash is 1-2 fighter, which will remove the cap on Intimidate, allowing for the same thing.

[Wyrmnax]

Going full CHA is a very bad route.

What i meant is 16 base cha, +2 tomes, + items. Should be around the standard for paladins, no? Enough for DMIII, IV with a +4 tome (yeah, right).

Still, total CHA mod should be +7 ~ +9

The target number is 39 for UMD ( heal scrolls ). Although anything a bit over 30 would be useful. 34 is already plenty good if you try to not depend on scrolls to save your behind.

Intimi is a bit fuzzier, and harder to get... you need what for non-epic endgame? almost 60?

What is the breakdown of possible UMD and Intimi bonuses? With that i should be able to see if it is going to be useful or not.


Also, while going rogue can make for full ranks, it still costs 2 points per rank. A 8 INT human pld already has only 2 skill points/level, i do not think it will matter if i can put more into skills if i dont have more skill points.


EDIT:
Think it might be easier to put up my idea:

Human

STR 16 (level ups go here)
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 16

This char really needs a +2 tome everywhere -_-"

Skill points are 1 tumble, rest UMD and Intimi. Extra points from level 7 onwards go to Balance.

Feats:

TWF
ITWF
GTWF (or whatever is the name - full TWF line )
Toughness
IMP. Crit
Extend
Power Attack
Kopesh



And the question is: can UMD and Intimi get high enough on such a chard to be worth putting in at all?

[Ayseifn]

I have a drow with 16 starting Cha that I plan on getting 39 UMD with, here's my breakdown.

Cha:
16 start
+2 tome
+1 exceptional ToD ring
+2 exceptional on ToD ring
+6 item
+2 Yugolith pot
+2 paladin enhancements
32

UMD:
11 ranks
4 GH
6 shroud
2 HogF
5 finger gloves
28

39

Intim I don't think is workable if you want to tank raid bosses with only half ranks, even with a fighter or rogue splash you most likely wont be tanking elites without some intim feats.

[Wyrmnax]

Umm... lets see. Correct me if i miss something.

For intimi

+11 CHA (As Ayseifn put above)
+15 Item
+6 Shroud
+4 GH
+2 HogF

Total of +38 withouth skill ranks.

That translates to +49 with half ranks, or + 61 with full ranks ( IE, a couple rogue or fighter levels )

That means that half ranks is passable for normal, i think ( Sulo requires 51, Doggie is 48 or 49 ). But still far from Elite.

Full ranks *might* be doable on elites, but for that capstone must be dropped.

[Ayseifn]

You can get another 5 cha but it's a lot more effort and AP cost: +1 human enhancement, +1 paladin enhancement +2 from +4 tome and +1 from a +7 epic item like the Epic Vambraces of Inner Light. If you're lucky enough to be running with a bard that's another +2 to skills, but even then you're still 1 shot for Suulo(need 54 on normal I think) and things just go up from there.

Store pots can get you another +2 cha and house D turn ins can get you +3 cha skills or +3 cha, that's pretty much everything and still not enough for Suulo or Horoth in ToD on normal.

With all of that on a fighter or rogue splash you'd be at 70 intim(don't forget the +1 from fighter/rogue enhancements), good enough for some hard/elites but not all and definitely far too weak for epics.

[Rusty_Can]

Nvm.

[Ikem]

with Ikem, 34 pt, i did take 4 ftr and 2 rog for umd and intim. had to spread it out a little but ended up with 48 umd and 62 intim. still need a cha skills shroud item. Also my cha is only 26 atm. ToD ring is on the way.