18 pal 1 fgt 1 rog question

[Dyne01]

I have been tryin to troll the forums on why its always 2 fgt'r or 2 rog builds whats wrong with splashing 1 fgt and 1 rog. I have 32 point build and wondering if there is a effective tanking build that supports that set up. I read through junts pally guide extensively and couldnt figure why its always 2 or 2 any help would be appritiated

[Shaftronics]

Its because splashing less than 2 of those would be a somewhat of a waste. You see, in the long run, 1 rogue will not be able to let you disarm traps or let alone find them all that well later on, as Paladins are very stingy with their ability points. The only reason most would get 2 levels of rogue is only for more UMD and Evasion, which are very valuable for survival and self-sufficiency. 2 Monk will net you 2 feats and evasion, while 2 fighter will grant you full BaB, 2 feats and the Tower Shield proficiency, which is a prerequisite for Defender of Siberys and as a tank build, the Fighter levels can up their intimidate skills as a class skill.

Its why the reccomended Paladin tank builds usually have 18 Paladin/ 2 fighter and the more survivable, UMD capable ones are 18 Paladin/ 2 Rogue. Its a matter of what benefits you gain from the 2 levels, rather than 1 of each.

[Ralmeth]

Actually, I beg to differ with Shaft...A 1 Rogue / 1 Fighter splash is viable on a Defender of Siberys build and is what I am using as my main. The mix works very well. The 1 Rogue level provides UMD which is extremely helpful to be able to use heal, raise dead, teleport, etc scrolls. As Paladins are feat starved the 1 Fighter gives you two feats, tower shield for free plus 1 more. Also from a RP perspective I much prefer the look of Dragontouched Plate over Dragontouched Leather. The plate makes you look like a tank, and being a Paladin I do care what my character looks like.

Having said that, all three DoS splashes are all viable. It just depends on what is important to you:

2 Fighter splash: 3 extra feats (tower shield + 2 more), +1 strength enhancement
2 Rogue splash: UMD and evasion, but very feat starved
1 Fighter / 1 Rogue: 2 extra feats (tower shield + 1 more) and UMD

As for a specific build, Dyne01, it depends on what resources you have available to you. You mention you have 32 points builds, but what tomes do you have available or are willing to buy?

[Shaftronics]

Well, its opinionated as to whether what you lose or gain from splashing is good or not, so I'm not disagreeing, but I have to say; its all in the playstyle as well as the items available to him and as you said, resources, as Paladins are very starved in almost every aspect; Feats, Skills and Ability Points.

That breakdown you gave was definately what I was trying to get across, just in a different manner.

[Ayseifn]

You can get to 39 UMD on a pal 18/fighter 2 too though it's just a lot more gear grinding.

[lord_of_rage]

Its because splashing less than 2 of those would be a somewhat of a waste. You see, in the long run, 1 rogue will not be able to let you disarm traps or let alone find them all that well later on, as Paladins are very stingy with their ability points. The only reason most would get 2 levels of rogue is only for more UMD and Evasion, which are very valuable for survival and self-sufficiency. 2 Monk will net you 2 feats and evasion, while 2 fighter will grant you full BaB, 2 feats and the Tower Shield proficiency, which is a prerequisite for Defender of Siberys and as a tank build, the Fighter levels can up their intimidate skills as a class skill.

Its why the reccomended Paladin tank builds usually have 18 Paladin/ 2 fighter and the more survivable, UMD capable ones are 18 Paladin/ 2 Rogue. Its a matter of what benefits you gain from the 2 levels, rather than 1 of each.

I have to disagree as well. Going 1 rogue 1 ftr 18 pally is good for a dos build that doesnt have the larges to craft a gs +6 cha item right away. Because you are going to want to craft your first gs weapon with +4 insight first. By going rogue at lvl1 you get access to intimidate as well as open up umd as a class skill. Taking fighter then opens up towershield + a selectable feat. In a typical human dos feat set up Id simply drop dodge. You take a 1 ac loss. Or id drop extend. But its a very viable and fun build.

[Gercho]

As everyone said, 1 fighter 1 rogue is viable for a tank, now if you want to splash in a dps build, then you better go 2 rogue (umd and evasion) or 2 monk (2 feats and evasion), taking 1 fighter 1 rogue in such case would be trading evasion for 1 feat, and i m pretty sure no feat is better than evasion