Why a Cleric?

[Failedlegend]

Ok first off I am well aware that relying 100% on the groups healer will get you killed its why I love me some UMD and/or Arcane WF (or other self-healing classes) but at the same time why do so many Clerics either refuse to heal or refuse to join a group asking for a healer.

I know this is gonna get me truck loads off neg-rep (because apparently disagreeing with people is discouraged here) but why did you make a cleric in the first place if you didnt want to heal...it would be like a wizard who ignores the fact that he has spells and only melees things or a Rogue who refuses to do traps...I know this isnt their ONLY job but it's their unique thing that other classes can't do (or cant do as well).

I may be wrong but I'm guessing you went cleric for to be a self-healing char...BUT there's many options for this....A ranger, A Paladin, A Rogue w/ UMD, a WF Wizard, A Bard, etc. not to mention multitude of possible Multiclasses.

No other class gets to refuse to do what they were designed to do (except some Multiclasses where they have to explain WHAT they do...but thats another story) so what makes Clerics so special...I've never heard a pure/mostly pure rogue not join a group because their looking for a trapmonkey (Never Met a rogue past the harbor without trapskills) or a Barbarian refuse to rage.


Note: I know other classes can heal to too...but ya know I've never had a Bard complain about healing

[Impaqt]

Because a solid group of players will never "Need" a cleric to complete anything.

Advertising "Need Healer" is kinda the same thing as putting "can someone please come do the quest for me while I sit back and pike"

Its funny.. You list a whole bunch of characters than can be "Self sufficient" but then in the same breath you want to know why people dont like playing healbots....

I play Clerics and FvS's mostly because I enjoy the flexibility of doing whatever needs to be done to get the quest completed.

I dont play them because I like to sit around starting at red bars.

[Krag]

I may be wrong but I'm guessing you went cleric for to be a self-healing char...BUT there's many options for this....A ranger, A Paladin, A Rogue w/ UMD, a WF Wizard, A Bard, etc. not to mention multitude of possible Multiclasses.

WF are p2p. Clerics are free and almost as good.
All other choices have only lesser forms of self-healing and can't nuke.

[Calebro]

Because a solid group of players will never "Need" a cleric to complete anything.

Advertising "Need Healer" is kinda the same thing as putting "can someone please come do the quest for me while I sit back and pike"

Its funny.. You list a whole bunch of characters than can be "Self sufficient" but then in the same breath you want to know why people dont like playing healbots....

I play Clerics and FvS's mostly because I enjoy the flexibility of doing whatever needs to be done to get the quest completed.

I dont play them because I like to sit around starting at red bars.

^THIS^ and I'll add to it.

Most Clerics worth their weight will avidly adoid the LFMs that say "need healer", and some even avoid those that only have Clr & FvS icons shown in the LFMs.
This game is much diferent from other MMOs in that respect.

Not all Clerics are healers and not all healers are Clerics.

[Buggss]

...Advertising "Need Healer" is kinda the same thing as putting "can someone please come do the quest for me while I sit back and pike"....

Unbelievable, adequate healing is a major part of a balanced group, just like having an arcane, a melee and a rogue is too.

Not every player is TR'ed, geared up to the hilt or wealthy enough to be able to be self sufficient.

Having a group with all but one of the above and therefore asking for it is nothing to be ashamed of.

[jarlaxle_dourden]

Because a solid group of players will never "Need" a cleric to complete anything.

Advertising "Need Healer" is kinda the same thing as putting "can someone please come do the quest for me while I sit back and pike"

Its funny.. You list a whole bunch of characters than can be "Self sufficient" but then in the same breath you want to know why people dont like playing healbots....

I play Clerics and FvS's mostly because I enjoy the flexibility of doing whatever needs to be done to get the quest completed.

I dont play them because I like to sit around starting at red bars.

Help me ...

I am totally in agreement with Impact ... :S

If someone yells HEAL ME ... HEAL ME ... and they are capable of healing themselves ... I inform them that the wand and scroll vendor is in House J.

I play plenty of support chars (clerics, bards, rogue) and I must admit ... seeing in the lfm NEED HEALER is a deterrent to me to join. I want to join groups that I don't mind healing but I am also free to use many of the other tactics afforded to the Cleric and FvS classes.

People are too dependent on healer types it is better for the game to educate them on how to be a little more self reliant ... most people catch on very easily ... others ... get added to my "Friends" list.

[jarlaxle_dourden]

Unbelievable, adequate healing is a major part of a balanced group, just like having an arcane, a melee and a rogue is too.

Not every player is TR'ed, geared up to the hilt or wealthy enough to be able to be self sufficient.

Having a group with all but one of the above and therefore asking for it is nothing to be ashamed of.

Nothing wrong with asking ... just don't be surprised when you wait for hours for a healer to click the LFM ... and in the end turns up to be no better than the Hireling you could have picked up for 5K and saved yourself many minutes/hours of gameplay.

[Impaqt]

Unbelievable, adequate healing is a major part of a balanced group, just like having an arcane, a melee and a rogue is too.

Whats unbelievable is that there are so many players that cannot provide themselves with "Adequate" healing.

Not every player is TR'ed, geared up to the hilt or wealthy enough to be able to be self sufficient.

you dont need to be TR'd to be self sufficient. You dont need to be wealthy either. you just have to play smart. DONT do quests that are out of your league. Try running Normal instead of Elite. try backing out of a tough fight instead of Screaming "HJEAL ME!!!!!!!!!!". Try using tactics instead of Brute force.

Cure Mod wands are cheap and quite effective through the mid levels.

Having a group with all but one of the above and therefore asking for it is nothing to be ashamed of.

I assume you jump onto your cleric and join those LFM's every chance ya get then right?

[Tumarek]

Thats why i play Battleclerics... the people who dont know what they are doing will decline me and that actually will help me find groups that are worthy of my healing....

and dont get me wrong i heal better then 80% of the clerics out there who are full nanybots... with double the sp i have


But i must agree with you 100%... a cleric or a fvs who doesnt heal is a gimp... no matter how good his build is

[Calebro]

Unbelievable, adequate healing is a major part of a balanced group, just like having an arcane, a melee and a rogue is too.

Not every player is TR'ed, geared up to the hilt or wealthy enough to be able to be self sufficient.

Having a group with all but one of the above and therefore asking for it is nothing to be ashamed of.

Let's look at the rest of the clases then, shall we?

Cleric: can heal
Favored Soul: can heal
Paladin: Lay on Hands, cure spells, and cure wands, easy to get UMD high
Bard: UMD, cure spells, and cure wands
Ranger: cure spells and cure wands
Monk: (light path) Fists of Light, Healing Ki, Wholeness of Body
Rogue: UMD
Wizard: bugged to use cure wands, self heal if WF
Sorcerer: self heal if WF, easy to get UMD high
Barbarian: screwed
Fighter: plenty of feats if halfling to take Dragonmarks, otherwise screwed

So that's 2 out of 11 classes with no self healing, one of which can get it easily if the right race is played.

What exactly do you need a healer for?

[Nezichiend]

Because a solid group of players will never "Need" a cleric to complete anything.

Advertising "Need Healer" is kinda the same thing as putting "can someone please come do the quest for me while I sit back and pike"
/snip

I gotta disagree with this...
Although a solid group will never NEED a cleric, it makes things MUCH easier with less resources. Why would you want to run a quest using more resources just because you don't want to get a cleric?
And why is having someone who can heal mean that he will do the quest for you? It is very difficult to solo some types of quests on a healer and they NEED dps to do it.

And raids. Would you ever put up an LFM for ToD without having a FvS or a cleric? Or Shroud? Or VoD (not really really needed here, but I have never seen a VoD without a healer)? Or Epic DQ2? or Epic VoN6?

Self-Sufficient characters have to give something up to be self-sufficient. And that is usually dps. So having 12 self-sufficients do less DPS than 11 high-dps and 1 healer.

[Calebro]

Self-Sufficient characters have to give something up to be self-sufficient. And that is usually dps. So having 12 self-sufficients do less DPS than 11 high-dps and 1 healer.

Wrong.
Look at my list above. Barbarians have to give something up to be self-sufficient, and most fighters.
Everyone else simply SHOULD BE self-sufficient.
And even those Barbs and Fighters should carry some potions, so where's the problem?

[jarlaxle_dourden]

I gotta disagree with this...
Although a solid group will never NEED a cleric, it makes things MUCH easier with less resources. Why would you want to run a quest using more resources just because you don't want to get a cleric?
And why is having someone who can heal mean that he will do the quest for you? It is very difficult to solo some types of quests on a healer and they NEED dps to do it.

And raids. Would you ever put up an LFM for ToD without having a FvS or a cleric? Or Shroud? Or VoD (not really really needed here, but I have never seen a VoD without a healer)? Or Epic DQ2? or Epic VoN6?

Self-Sufficient characters have to give something up to be self-sufficient. And that is usually dps. So having 12 self-sufficients do less DPS than 11 high-dps and 1 healer.

Not that I disagree ... but it has to come down to how long are you willing to wait?

and again ... going back to Impacts point ... and believe me it is valid as I play healer type 90% of my game time ... If an LFM reads healer needed ... I ignore it ... and I don't think I am alone.

You can't fight human nature ... so ... How long are you willing to wait?

PS: I agree raids are a different beast altogether ... most healer types recognize this.

[Impaqt]

I gotta disagree with this...
Although a solid group will never NEED a cleric, it makes things MUCH easier with less resources. Why would you want to run a quest using more resources just because you don't want to get a cleric?
And why is having someone who can heal mean that he will do the quest for you? It is very difficult to solo some types of quests on a healer and they NEED dps to do it.

And raids. Would you ever put up an LFM for ToD without having a FvS or a cleric? Or Shroud? Or VoD (not really really needed here, but I have never seen a VoD without a healer)? Or Epic DQ2? or Epic VoN6?

Self-Sufficient characters have to give something up to be self-sufficient. And that is usually dps. So having 12 self-sufficients do less DPS than 11 high-dps and 1 healer.

Wow, talk about going off into left fiend while playing Water polo......

We're talking about regular quests here for the most part..... Not Epic Raids..... but on that regard, no, I would NOT join a Epic LFM either that had "NEEED CERLIC" in the Comments......

bottom line. Good groups dont need to beg for healers. If you are to the point that you need to, something is wrong with the group. Not joining those groups has nothing to do with not wanting to heal.... I play a decent cleric/FvS. DOnt get many complaints at all.... From solid players..... It has everything to do with not wanting to subject myself to people who dont want to be self sufficient at all...

Kinda like when I join a normal Shroud group and the first question I get is "How many mana Pots do you have?"

Are you kidding me? I havent used mana pots in a shroud run in ages.....

I rarely have trouble getting a Cleric or FvS in my Groups.. My LFM's usually read "In Progress, BYOH"

Its amazing how many Clerics and FvS's will hit those LFM's. and... Wait FOr it..... Wait some more..... STILL HEAL their party mates during the quest......

If you make the effort to take care of yourself, I have NO PROBLEM making the effort to take care of you as well.

[Nezichiend]

Wrong.
Look at my list above. Barbarians have to give something up to be self-sufficient, and most fighters.
Everyone else simply SHOULD BE self-sufficient.
And even those Barbs and Fighters should carry some potions, so where's the problem?

Barbs with 900hp will take 30pots to get them to full. And it will take a while sitting there drinking 30 pots.

Everyone is self-sufficient to some point, but if you doing an epic quest you would get like 2 attack animations off before backing off to heal, then going back in. That takes WAY TOO LONG.
Rangers run out of sp and to make their healing good enough they would have to take maximize or something (taking away from something else).

If you are running easy quests, sure you don't need a healer. But if the monsters do more damage than you self-heal (which happens very often) you will need a dedicated healer.

[Calebro]

Barbs with 900hp will take 30pots to get them to full. And it will take a while sitting there drinking 30 pots.

Everyone is self-sufficient to some point, but if you doing an epic quest you would get like 2 attack animations off before backing off to heal, then going back in. That takes WAY TOO LONG.
Rangers run out of sp and to make their healing good enough they would have to take maximize or something (taking away from something else).

If you are running easy quests, sure you don't need a healer. But if the monsters do more damage than you self-heal (which happens very often) you will need a dedicated healer.

Once again, Impaqt took the words from my mouth.
See above.

[Impaqt]

If you are running easy quests, sure you don't need a healer. But if the monsters do more damage than you self-heal (which happens very often) you will need a dedicated healer.

And if your any good at what you do, you wont need to beg in the LFM for a healer.

[Chai]

Welcome to DnD

Clerics (or FvS) are not solely "heal bots" here in DDO like they are in other games. They are not simply religated to playing the "healer" role in the party because they have a priest icon next to their name.

They can fight, heal, buff, cast, etc - and can focus on other stats than just the max mana and healing stat.

A str based Favored Soul for instance, can have over 30 str, fight well in melee, and still have more mana than a fully pimped out cleric.

[Nezichiend]

And if your any good at what you do, you wont need to beg in the LFM for a healer.

I really don't care if a LFM is begging for a healer or not. If they want one and I need to do the quest mentioned, I will join (well unless the group sucks then I wouldn't join on any of my characters).

And on my cleric there is very little I can do besides heal with a full group (don't get me wrong here, my cleric doesn't suck )
Blade barrier really doesn't do much when there is someone who can do much more damage. Any melee should be able to do more damage than me blade barriering does so dropping one probably gets 2 ticks off (around 300-1000 damage depending on saves/crits/eardweller).

[Calebro]

I really don't care if a LFM is begging for a healer or not. If they want one and I need to do the quest mentioned, I will join (well unless the group sucks then I wouldn't join on any of my characters).

And on my cleric there is very little I can do besides heal with a full group (don't get me wrong here, my cleric doesn't suck )
Blade barrier really doesn't do much when there is someone who can do much more damage. Any melee should be able to do more damage than me blade barriering does so dropping one probably gets 2 ticks off (around 300-1000 damage depending on saves/crits/eardweller).

Divine casters have many more tricks besides Healing and Blade Barriers.
Play with your spells sometime. Learn them.