Why a Cleric?

[Failedlegend]

Ok first off I am well aware that relying 100% on the groups healer will get you killed its why I love me some UMD and/or Arcane WF (or other self-healing classes) but at the same time why do so many Clerics either refuse to heal or refuse to join a group asking for a healer.

I know this is gonna get me truck loads off neg-rep (because apparently disagreeing with people is discouraged here) but why did you make a cleric in the first place if you didnt want to heal...it would be like a wizard who ignores the fact that he has spells and only melees things or a Rogue who refuses to do traps...I know this isnt their ONLY job but it's their unique thing that other classes can't do (or cant do as well).

I may be wrong but I'm guessing you went cleric for to be a self-healing char...BUT there's many options for this....A ranger, A Paladin, A Rogue w/ UMD, a WF Wizard, A Bard, etc. not to mention multitude of possible Multiclasses.

No other class gets to refuse to do what they were designed to do (except some Multiclasses where they have to explain WHAT they do...but thats another story) so what makes Clerics so special...I've never heard a pure/mostly pure rogue not join a group because their looking for a trapmonkey (Never Met a rogue past the harbor without trapskills) or a Barbarian refuse to rage.


Note: I know other classes can heal to too...but ya know I've never had a Bard complain about healing

[Impaqt]

Because a solid group of players will never "Need" a cleric to complete anything.

Advertising "Need Healer" is kinda the same thing as putting "can someone please come do the quest for me while I sit back and pike"

Its funny.. You list a whole bunch of characters than can be "Self sufficient" but then in the same breath you want to know why people dont like playing healbots....

I play Clerics and FvS's mostly because I enjoy the flexibility of doing whatever needs to be done to get the quest completed.

I dont play them because I like to sit around starting at red bars.

[Calebro]

Because a solid group of players will never "Need" a cleric to complete anything.

Advertising "Need Healer" is kinda the same thing as putting "can someone please come do the quest for me while I sit back and pike"

Its funny.. You list a whole bunch of characters than can be "Self sufficient" but then in the same breath you want to know why people dont like playing healbots....

I play Clerics and FvS's mostly because I enjoy the flexibility of doing whatever needs to be done to get the quest completed.

I dont play them because I like to sit around starting at red bars.

^THIS^ and I'll add to it.

Most Clerics worth their weight will avidly adoid the LFMs that say "need healer", and some even avoid those that only have Clr & FvS icons shown in the LFMs.
This game is much diferent from other MMOs in that respect.

Not all Clerics are healers and not all healers are Clerics.

[Buggss]

...Advertising "Need Healer" is kinda the same thing as putting "can someone please come do the quest for me while I sit back and pike"....

Unbelievable, adequate healing is a major part of a balanced group, just like having an arcane, a melee and a rogue is too.

Not every player is TR'ed, geared up to the hilt or wealthy enough to be able to be self sufficient.

Having a group with all but one of the above and therefore asking for it is nothing to be ashamed of.

[jarlaxle_dourden]

Unbelievable, adequate healing is a major part of a balanced group, just like having an arcane, a melee and a rogue is too.

Not every player is TR'ed, geared up to the hilt or wealthy enough to be able to be self sufficient.

Having a group with all but one of the above and therefore asking for it is nothing to be ashamed of.

Nothing wrong with asking ... just don't be surprised when you wait for hours for a healer to click the LFM ... and in the end turns up to be no better than the Hireling you could have picked up for 5K and saved yourself many minutes/hours of gameplay.

[Impaqt]

Unbelievable, adequate healing is a major part of a balanced group, just like having an arcane, a melee and a rogue is too.

Whats unbelievable is that there are so many players that cannot provide themselves with "Adequate" healing.

Not every player is TR'ed, geared up to the hilt or wealthy enough to be able to be self sufficient.

you dont need to be TR'd to be self sufficient. You dont need to be wealthy either. you just have to play smart. DONT do quests that are out of your league. Try running Normal instead of Elite. try backing out of a tough fight instead of Screaming "HJEAL ME!!!!!!!!!!". Try using tactics instead of Brute force.

Cure Mod wands are cheap and quite effective through the mid levels.

Having a group with all but one of the above and therefore asking for it is nothing to be ashamed of.

I assume you jump onto your cleric and join those LFM's every chance ya get then right?

[Calebro]

Unbelievable, adequate healing is a major part of a balanced group, just like having an arcane, a melee and a rogue is too.

Not every player is TR'ed, geared up to the hilt or wealthy enough to be able to be self sufficient.

Having a group with all but one of the above and therefore asking for it is nothing to be ashamed of.

Let's look at the rest of the clases then, shall we?

Cleric: can heal
Favored Soul: can heal
Paladin: Lay on Hands, cure spells, and cure wands, easy to get UMD high
Bard: UMD, cure spells, and cure wands
Ranger: cure spells and cure wands
Monk: (light path) Fists of Light, Healing Ki, Wholeness of Body
Rogue: UMD
Wizard: bugged to use cure wands, self heal if WF
Sorcerer: self heal if WF, easy to get UMD high
Barbarian: screwed
Fighter: plenty of feats if halfling to take Dragonmarks, otherwise screwed

So that's 2 out of 11 classes with no self healing, one of which can get it easily if the right race is played.

What exactly do you need a healer for?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Let's look at the rest of the clases then, shall we?

Cleric: can heal
Favored Soul: can heal
Paladin: Lay on Hands, cure spells, and cure wands, easy to get UMD high
Bard: UMD, cure spells, and cure wands
Ranger: cure spells and cure wands
Monk: (light path) Fists of Light, Healing Ki, Wholeness of Body
Rogue: UMD
Wizard: bugged to use cure wands, self heal if WF
Sorcerer: self heal if WF, easy to get UMD high
Barbarian: screwed
Fighter: plenty of feats if halfling to take Dragonmarks, otherwise screwed

So that's 2 out of 11 classes with no self healing, one of which can get it easily if the right race is played.

What exactly do you need a healer for?

Yep!

And the rest of the group can help the Ftr and Brbs out.

Barbarian rage causes problems, and their huge amount of HP makes potions seem trivial. Add in the increased damage they take. Ftrs at least might have an AC option to not need as much healing.

Yep. I'll try to forgive Barbarians when I can. And I also understand the desire they have to rush to the next fight while their rage is still going. But everyone else shouldn't be so needy IMO.

For those who say healing is too expensive, CLW wands are dirt cheap. They just require you to stand still for awhile to use them. Again Barbarians have a valid reason for not wanting to stand still long enough.

[Kyrn]

So that's 2 out of 11 classes with no self healing, one of which can get it easily if the right race is played.

2 and a half. Not all monks are light path.

[sirdanile]

Let's look at the rest of the clases then, shall we?

Cleric: can heal
Favored Soul: can heal
Paladin: Lay on Hands, cure spells, and cure wands, easy to get UMD high
Bard: UMD, cure spells, and cure wands
Ranger: cure spells and cure wands
Monk: (light path) Fists of Light, Healing Ki, Wholeness of Body
Rogue: UMD
Wizard: bugged to use cure wands, self heal if WF
Sorcerer: self heal if WF, easy to get UMD high
Barbarian: screwed
Fighter: plenty of feats if halfling to take Dragonmarks, otherwise screwed

So that's 2 out of 11 classes with no self healing, one of which can get it easily if the right race is played.

What exactly do you need a healer for?

Don't forget silver flame potions, my barb can solo amrath easily with them (combination dr and missive heals, as well as the fact -10 stats don't hurt a barb if you plan for it)

Fighter has a little bit harder time soloing due to the lack of X/- dr but remains effective at soloing with flame potions.

[Calebro]

Don't forget silver flame potions, my barb can solo amrath easily with them (combination dr and missive heals, as well as the fact -10 stats don't hurt a barb if you plan for it)

Fighter has a little bit harder time soloing due to the lack of X/- dr but remains effective at soloing with flame potions.

The average Barbarian has neither the ability points to stay functional after drinking that pot, nor the favor required to get them to begin with.
You have to remember that most players are now in the f2p/premium category and simply don't have all of Necro to get that much SF favor.
So while in theory Barbs can use these pots to keep themselves healed, in a practical sense it's unlikely that they have that option. Plus, but the time that they do have that option, you're running in groups that usually have a healer rather than running BYOH quests..

[Karavek]

Unbelievable, adequate healing is a major part of a balanced group, just like having an arcane, a melee and a rogue is too.

Not every player is TR'ed, geared up to the hilt or wealthy enough to be able to be self sufficient.

Having a group with all but one of the above and therefore asking for it is nothing to be ashamed of.

Imp is right. Saying NEED A HEALER is a warning to all real healers to stay away lest they meet the team that has them burning through wands. There is indeed no end to high end content that makes many feel a healer is essential, however that does not mean every healer is going to jump at it.

[jarlaxle_dourden]

Because a solid group of players will never "Need" a cleric to complete anything.

Advertising "Need Healer" is kinda the same thing as putting "can someone please come do the quest for me while I sit back and pike"

Its funny.. You list a whole bunch of characters than can be "Self sufficient" but then in the same breath you want to know why people dont like playing healbots....

I play Clerics and FvS's mostly because I enjoy the flexibility of doing whatever needs to be done to get the quest completed.

I dont play them because I like to sit around starting at red bars.

Help me ...

I am totally in agreement with Impact ... :S

If someone yells HEAL ME ... HEAL ME ... and they are capable of healing themselves ... I inform them that the wand and scroll vendor is in House J.

I play plenty of support chars (clerics, bards, rogue) and I must admit ... seeing in the lfm NEED HEALER is a deterrent to me to join. I want to join groups that I don't mind healing but I am also free to use many of the other tactics afforded to the Cleric and FvS classes.

People are too dependent on healer types it is better for the game to educate them on how to be a little more self reliant ... most people catch on very easily ... others ... get added to my "Friends" list.

[Tumarek]

Thats why i play Battleclerics... the people who dont know what they are doing will decline me and that actually will help me find groups that are worthy of my healing....

and dont get me wrong i heal better then 80% of the clerics out there who are full nanybots... with double the sp i have


But i must agree with you 100%... a cleric or a fvs who doesnt heal is a gimp... no matter how good his build is

[Irinis]

If someone yells HEAL ME ... HEAL ME ... and they are capable of healing themselves ... I inform them that the wand and scroll vendor is in House J.

Because 20 hp from cure serious on a 4 second timer will really protect against the next -200 hp after you've already taken -400 worth of those... yup. Also especially good to wand or pot yourself while incap, held, etc.

But of course a veteran player never gets held or incap. They know the secret source to get FOM pots!

[sisterjinx]

If someone yells HEAL ME ... HEAL ME ... and they are capable of healing themselves ... I inform them that the wand and scroll vendor is in House J.

First off if someone yells "HEAL ME HEAL ME" in any party I'm in they go on my list. Partly because our "healer" types are played by either one of our close friends or my husband and I know darn well they are getting healed as it is possible to do so.

Second off if we ever do have to pug a Cleric/FVS spot (it has happened on occasion) and I see them doing a darn good job I will tip them, if I see them using resources (ie wands or scrolls) to do it I will often even mail them a stack of scrolls or a couple of wands (depending on lvl) later in the day/evening or give it to them if they stick around long enough for me to do so.

And as far as lfm's with "need cleric" I don't think we've ever put "need" in there but we have put cleric/FVS preferred and will often leave it closed to other classes and go without a sixth at all if we have to.

(forum threads like this just remind me why I so appreciate our dedicated group that we usually run with.)

[Nezichiend]

Because a solid group of players will never "Need" a cleric to complete anything.

Advertising "Need Healer" is kinda the same thing as putting "can someone please come do the quest for me while I sit back and pike"
/snip

I gotta disagree with this...
Although a solid group will never NEED a cleric, it makes things MUCH easier with less resources. Why would you want to run a quest using more resources just because you don't want to get a cleric?
And why is having someone who can heal mean that he will do the quest for you? It is very difficult to solo some types of quests on a healer and they NEED dps to do it.

And raids. Would you ever put up an LFM for ToD without having a FvS or a cleric? Or Shroud? Or VoD (not really really needed here, but I have never seen a VoD without a healer)? Or Epic DQ2? or Epic VoN6?

Self-Sufficient characters have to give something up to be self-sufficient. And that is usually dps. So having 12 self-sufficients do less DPS than 11 high-dps and 1 healer.

[Calebro]

Self-Sufficient characters have to give something up to be self-sufficient. And that is usually dps. So having 12 self-sufficients do less DPS than 11 high-dps and 1 healer.

Wrong.
Look at my list above. Barbarians have to give something up to be self-sufficient, and most fighters.
Everyone else simply SHOULD BE self-sufficient.
And even those Barbs and Fighters should carry some potions, so where's the problem?

[Nezichiend]

Wrong.
Look at my list above. Barbarians have to give something up to be self-sufficient, and most fighters.
Everyone else simply SHOULD BE self-sufficient.
And even those Barbs and Fighters should carry some potions, so where's the problem?

Barbs with 900hp will take 30pots to get them to full. And it will take a while sitting there drinking 30 pots.

Everyone is self-sufficient to some point, but if you doing an epic quest you would get like 2 attack animations off before backing off to heal, then going back in. That takes WAY TOO LONG.
Rangers run out of sp and to make their healing good enough they would have to take maximize or something (taking away from something else).

If you are running easy quests, sure you don't need a healer. But if the monsters do more damage than you self-heal (which happens very often) you will need a dedicated healer.

[Calebro]

Barbs with 900hp will take 30pots to get them to full. And it will take a while sitting there drinking 30 pots.

Everyone is self-sufficient to some point, but if you doing an epic quest you would get like 2 attack animations off before backing off to heal, then going back in. That takes WAY TOO LONG.
Rangers run out of sp and to make their healing good enough they would have to take maximize or something (taking away from something else).

If you are running easy quests, sure you don't need a healer. But if the monsters do more damage than you self-heal (which happens very often) you will need a dedicated healer.

Once again, Impaqt took the words from my mouth.
See above.