Why a Cleric?

[MeliCat]

I treat Main Hate Tanks differently. If this was VoD for example, yes, the main tank gets a Pass on using Madstone. I.. or someone else.. will remove his curses.....

However, that kind of thing needs to be made clear at the start of the raid. If ya got a meatbag fighter thats gonna be doing the main tanking against a boss that throws curses, it needs to be made clear who's going to be removing those curses.

If you refuse to carry Remove curse pots, or think you need to be madstoning all the time, sooner than later, your going to be on your own.

Just to confirm Impaqt you believe that no barbarian should rage in any quest you heal in? Or you just make a point of not grouping with any barbarians? So you believe that anyone playing a barbarian should completely gimp their playing while you are healing them? You get more curses in VOD than you do rage timers.

[Kyrn]

Just to confirm Impaqt you believe that no barbarian should rage in any quest you heal in? Or you just make a point of not grouping with any barbarians? So you believe that anyone playing a barbarian should completely gimp their playing while you are healing them? You get more curses in VOD than you do rage timers.

Or maybe just not rage in VoD.

[Khelden]

Or maybe just not rage in VoD.

Not using rage is a really HUGE loss of DPS to the barbarian... Just without frenzy + death frenzy, a fighter outDPS him... I've made an excel sheet comparing GA,GS,Falchion (all greensteel) on Barbarian and Fighter, considering a similar strenght mod [this was only to see the weapon dmg output to know which weapon was the best]... I could work on it abit to see how much % DPS a barbarian could lose using those, but need to get alot more information in heh

The file is a project and I am planning to make it accessible for reviews

[Kyrn]

Not using rage is a really HUGE loss of DPS to the barbarian... Just without frenzy + death frenzy, a fighter outDPS him...

Yes, and not meleeing in ADQ2 is a huge loss in DPS to any melee... Maybe specific quests are not geared to some classes?

[Calebro]

2 and a half. Not all monks are light path.

2
I said what I meant.
Not all Monks are light path, but all monks get Wholeness of Body, which basically amounts to a full heal every few minutes.
Light path monks just get more.

[Khelden]

They lose ~33.4% DPS on a greataxe or greatsword without using rage & frenzies.

I've considered these factors:
# of Hits
STRMod
PAtk
BDmg
HumanDmg [the file was made for my own use at the base xD]

NormCritsProc
NormCritsDone
NormCritsMul
NormCritsDmg
Element2
Element3
Vicious
NormCritsTot

DeadCritsProc [19-20 on a barbarian]
DeadCrits
DeadCritsMul
DeadCritsDmg
Element2
Element3
Vicious
DeadCritsTot

NormHits
NormHitsDmg
Element1
Element2
Vicious
NormHitDmg

*Element 1 = Elemental base dmg [1d6]
*Element 2 = Elemental burst [1d6+3d6/4d6]
*Element 3 = Element Blast [1d10, 2d10. Did not include the 20 roll]

Feel free to correct me if I am missing some factors please.

[Kyrn]

2
I said what I meant.
Not all Monks are light path, but all monks get Wholeness of Body, which basically amounts to a full heal every few minutes.
Light path monks just get more.

Actually, it heals me about 60 HPS at my level (getting 6 hp per tick, and I think about 10-ish ticks)... which considering I've almost 300 HPs (depending on stance), it's just a fraction of my health. Not to mention that I've to sit down doing nothing during that whole healing process.

It's much faster to just chug light repair pots.

@Khelden

A dead Barbarian does 0 DPS. Just as no healers in their right mind would constantly heal any melee getting overrunned because they insist on meleeing in ADQ2, if you insist on raging to your death, I can't blame the healers for not healing you either.

[MeliCat]

Actually, it heals me about 60 HPS at my level (getting 6 hp per tick, and I think about 10-ish ticks)... which considering I've almost 300 HPs (depending on stance), it's just a fraction of my health. Not to mention that I've to sit down doing nothing during that whole healing process.

It's much faster to just chug light repair pots.

@Khelden

A dead Barbarian does 0 DPS. Just as no healers in their right mind would constantly heal any melee getting overrunned because they insist on meleeing in ADQ2, if you insist on raging to your death, I can't blame the healers for not healing you either.

ok... but to confirm Kyrn you also would have a barbarian only doing a mininimum amount of dps rather than a full amount and assisting removing their curses? So ignoring your extreme statment of 0 dps = dead you are just happy with minimum dps?



I really don't understand what the big deal is. Barbarians can't remove their curses while raging. I see them in a party. I will assume they are raging. I will remove their curses if the healer does not appear to be doing so.

I find it so odd that people ABSOLUTELY INSIST on this particular point of self sufficiency FROM EVERY SINGLE PLAYER even though the game mechanics don't get the best out of everyone if you do this.

It's so, I don't know, not being a team player?

I also personally find it kind of a fun mini game trying to remove peoples 'hats' as I party Which is why I carry around pots of cure poison on my WF fighter

[Kyrn]

Just for note: Just because I don't blame them doesn't mean it's my policy. I've cleared more than my share of blindness, stat reductions, and curses on my dark monk with no UMD. I'm only saying that the logic is understandable.

(and on a team-player perspective, it may be a better option for another melee to help uncurse the barbarian so that the healer can focus more reliably on the tank and healing.)

[Impaqt]

Just to confirm Impaqt you believe that no barbarian should rage in any quest you heal in? Or you just make a point of not grouping with any barbarians? So you believe that anyone playing a barbarian should completely gimp their playing while you are healing them? You get more curses in VOD than you do rage timers.

Not using rage is a really HUGE loss of DPS to the barbarian... Just without frenzy + death frenzy, a fighter outDPS him... I've made an excel sheet comparing GA,GS,Falchion (all greensteel) on Barbarian and Fighter, considering a similar strenght mod [this was only to see the weapon dmg output to know which weapon was the best]... I could work on it abit to see how much % DPS a barbarian could lose using those, but need to get alot more information in heh

The file is a project and I am planning to make it accessible for reviews

Here we go with more Jumping to extreme idiotic conclusions......

Yes, a Barb should be Raging in EVERY end game quest that requires significant DPS. ANd SOMEONE should be assigned to take care of those rages.. Buf If I'm in a Inspired Quarter quest with some Dex ROgue that "Needs to madstone", he might find himself on the short end of Remove CUrse line.

[Emili]

ok... but to confirm Kyrn you also would have a barbarian only doing a mininimum amount of dps rather than a full amount and assisting removing their curses? So ignoring your extreme statment of 0 dps = dead you are just happy with minimum dps?



I really don't understand what the big deal is. Barbarians can't remove their curses while raging. I see them in a party. I will assume they are raging. I will remove their curses if the healer does not appear to be doing so.

I find it so odd that people ABSOLUTELY INSIST on this particular point of self sufficiency FROM EVERY SINGLE PLAYER even though the game mechanics don't get the best out of everyone if you do this.

It's so, I don't know, not being a team player?

I also personally find it kind of a fun mini game trying to remove peoples 'hats' as I party Which is why I carry around pots of cure poison on my WF fighter

... and this was the point of my post earlier. People go off on - OH be self-sufficient, well guess what? We're all different levels of Self-sufficient.

I've 13 high level characters - 10 are level 20, the lowest level 14 (actually trying to decide how far or what my plans are with her).

Needless to say, I carry potions. scrolls and wands on everywhere... but you know what? I have 13 girls with an income which - because one is a bard - far exceeds what the first-time newbie on his first level 10 (or even level 19) per-say has for an income while I expect them to try for some self-sufficiency. I have 13 times the income ... I sometimes make but 100kpp on a slow night while others 500-600k pp ... Is nothing for me to go out and spend 5k on 100 cure potions or 11k pp on a stack of scrolls for every toons replenishment ... is simple. Bloody hell I do so for guildies too... I may turn around and run 13 shrouds back to back... 13 of any raid and hall in 13 times the loot out of every quest in comparison. I realize there are people out there on their first character who do not have the luxury.

Before a VoD will tell... make sure you have remove curse potions (you know what I carry those on my barbarian too... along with lessers and everything else... those without umd carry at least 100 coure potions into any quest... typically 2-3 x that) but still when in group - after a battle I may be on my bard or rogue or ranger and I'll toss a scroll heal or wand whip on a cleric I see not topped. Especially in the lower level quests...

You come with the attitude that a raid or an epic is somehow different... I play as a team in every quest... may be Tangleroot at level 4, Play as a team player all through the game, we're in the bloody quest together... I do not care if you're a noob and you're being a bloody eejit touching switches or what-not you should not be... you'll learn, but yes I'll still I'll heal stupid ... it eventually sinks in and they become more alert, more of a team player anyway, and they remember - This is a team. The attitude is taught socially... - when you persist in telling people - you're on your own and that's what they go with... and come EPIC and Elite in ToD they take that same play style in there with and bloody do not know how to play as a team. When I do not feel like playing in a group ... I go play something on solo... plain and simple.

I somehow believe some of you had forgotten what we were like five plus years ago scraping by in threnals or XC for our first times on our first characters with no haggle and but 3-10k in our pocketbooks? Well you know what? There are people out there in DDO very much like that today... and they do not become self-sufficient alone - If you think we did you bloody fooling yourself ...we did it together.

btw... I see a anyone in VoD with a curse... I target them and click the pot, even from my fighter.

Now all the people who jumped at the OP... have you read it?

Ok first off I am well aware that relying 100% on the groups healer will get you killed its why I love me some UMD and/or Arcane WF (or other self-healing classes) but at the same time why do so many Clerics either refuse to heal or refuse to join a group asking for a healer.

Translates - bring some healing, be self-sufficient... but hey why is that Cleric not casting a heal my way occssionally while am hit hard?

I know this is gonna get me truck loads off neg-rep (because apparently disagreeing with people is discouraged here) but why did you make a cleric in the first place if you didnt want to heal...it would be like a wizard who ignores the fact that he has spells and only melees things or a Rogue who refuses to do traps...I know this isnt their ONLY job but it's their unique thing that other classes can't do (or cant do as well).

Translates - Yes cast other spells even melee but your healing is better than other classes and quicker then another class may do, yet you're not watching for for being a little proactive.

I may be wrong but I'm guessing you went cleric for to be a self-healing char...BUT there's many options for this....A ranger, A Paladin, A Rogue w/ UMD, a WF Wizard, A Bard, etc. not to mention multitude of possible Multiclasses.

Translates - He feels you're out there only for you ... your not there for the team effort.

No other class gets to refuse to do what they were designed to do (except some Multiclasses where they have to explain WHAT they do...but thats another story) so what makes Clerics so special...I've never heard a pure/mostly pure rogue not join a group because their looking for a trapmonkey (Never Met a rogue past the harbor without trapskills) or a Barbarian refuse to rage.

Translates - Many rogues can disable traps and while not all is reasonable to ask... and never heard a melee not swing a weapon?

Note: I know other classes can heal to too...but ya know I've never had a Bard complain about healing

Translates - He's come across Bards and other classes who slip into occasional support and toss a heal yet some clerics complain to do such?

... and many people come in and tout what he already knew... Cleric's/FvS do more than heal - he said such... all he's asking is why some of them refuse to do it?

When I put up an LFM I take the first six to come based on name actually... I'll tell you this though - many at level quests or above go quicker and easier when one of the party are a cleric/FvS or really anyone who has high healing capacity by comparison...

[Khelden]

Here we go with more Jumping to extreme idiotic conclusions......

Yes, a Barb should be Raging in EVERY end game quest that requires significant DPS. ANd SOMEONE should be assigned to take care of those rages.. Buf If I'm in a Inspired Quarter quest with some Dex ROgue that "Needs to madstone", he might find himself on the short end of Remove CUrse line.

...We're talking about barbarian rage... It is kinda their only way to deal competitive DPS... I mean... The rogue can still deal great DPS without Madstone lol... But the barbarian without rage is meh...

[Impaqt]

...We're talking about barbarian rage... It is kinda their only way to deal competitive DPS... I mean... The rogue can still deal great DPS without Madstone lol... But the barbarian without rage is meh...

Maybe you went off on some tangent about Barb rage... I didnt.....

[Khelden]

Hmm...

Blah blah blah, I'm an idiot who's got nothing better to do, blah blah blah...

?

[Anthem]

So you admit BB is a tick-based spell [not all ticks are similar], which require the DPS to keep moving around. As I said, 600-700 is NOT DPS, but more likely the time required to activate the BB tick (which can be not effective at all sometimes). I've done the grab aggro, run in-out game for testing purpose in some quest. First, it was not very efficient. Sometimes I would run out to get the monster out, then back in to make him get back and he would get no damages. It happened a couple of times, and we did not find why exactly yet, but it was enough for us to continue with the normal DPS way. Sure, we use BB sometimes, but we don't rely on it for our DPS at all. It is more likely... Hit the monsters, BB is up, bring the monster in slowly, out, in, out but we stay on the monster and keep DPSing him, instead of simply running around without hitting him.

Wow, just wow.

If you got your 6,000 and 10,000 Vale slayers each time with melee instead of blade barriers, it must have taken you ...taken you ...taken you ...no, wait, you'd still be working on your first 10,000. I'm gonna guess that you are.

[Khelden]

Wow, just wow.

If you got your 6,000 and 10,000 Vale slayers each time with melee instead of blade barriers, it must have taken you ...taken you ...taken you ...no, wait, you'd still be working on your first 10,000. I'm gonna guess that you are.

Got a better way to run Vale personally... Splitted groups. Reached 3k in 1 day with this method

[Kam-Ekaze]

Hmm...

?

Hello sir,

I do not often reply to drabble but I am going to bite into your trolling this once even though I know it is to fall to deaf ears. First and foremost I find it amusing that you are calling me an idiot with nothing better to do after having posted over 20 trolling posts in a single thread, stubbornly trying to prove something you are wrong about, but oh well, godspeed to you.

Secondly, I am saddened that you have found your way to this wonderful community. It is people with an attitude much similar to yours which drove me away from World of Warcraft in the first place. While I don't really care much for your player skill or general lack-of, your failure to heed advice or listen to others is appalling and a shameful example.

I wonder to myself why I even bother writing this, as people much like you generally only really find enjoyment out of arguments and causing others grief while hiding behind the anonymous world of the internet. It is quite frightening that such acts could cause anyone happiness, but it is a sad truth in many online communities out there.

You ought to ask yourself, who really has nothing better to do?

For what it matters, I hope for you sir to make a change some day, and be ready to engage in open debate rather than continue your reckless close-minded troll arguments.

In your quest for betterment, I wish you Godspeed and good health. And I wish you well regardless of your insults to myself and the entire community. I tell you this without being insulting or aggressive because I know deep inside, you are simply just a lonely young boy wishing for some companionship in life.

Thank you for your time, sir.

[Anthem]

Got a better way to run Vale personally... Splitted groups. Reached 3k in 1 day with this method

A whole 3k in a day? How is that better than a solo cleric doing the same in 3.5 hours, maybe 4 with smoke breaks? or two doing it in 2 hours?

[Emili]

This has not happened to me yet. Pretty much each time, the melee DPS would get mobs down faster than BB. As I said previously, a big misconception of BB is his big tick damage. Those are ticks which must fire, while melee always swing their weapon.

If a BB tick for 500 but in the meantime a melee do 600-700, the DPS is better on the melee side, so the cleric should simply assist the DPS. (Doesn't mean he can't cast BB, BB is often a great help, but he should consider the situation before doing so. A cleric out of SP due to BB spam will never get reinvited by me again)

What I've seen though, is mages casting wail of the banshee and have better results than melee DPS. However, by doing so we're not wasting SP on DPS [mage, job is to deconstruct stuff ]

A tweaked max empowered Potency critting BB is nice ... on rare occasions breaching 500 on a mob... one thing should note also - some mob evade it too... Kiting on a cleric works well but is not all the best of DPS. This is caster style as a FW but slightly less potent at times... Melee DPS varies by class/build.

[Khelden]

A tweaked max empowered Potency critting BB is nice ... on rare occasions breaching 500 on a mob... one thing should note also - some mob evade it too... Kiting on a cleric works well but is not all the best of DPS. This is caster style as a FW but slightly less potent at times... Melee DPS varies by class/build.

I wish you good luck trying to explain this, I personally gave up.