Monk Diversity...

[epochofcrepuscule]

a thief acrobat is either going to be bad at trap skills or bad at fighting with a quarterstaff... if you're a str build acrobat, i'm sorry, i won't trust you with the traps. if you're a normally built rogue and you're a thief acrobat, you might want to use finessable weapons or a breeze quarterstaff.

Str and dex has nothing to do with traps. You can also get ALL traps on elite with a base 12 int. Epic was a different story.. they lowered the dcs in von 5 epic and I havent done any real look into what they are now.

Why does a rogue have to either be bad at traps or bad at a quarterstaff? You should learn more about what you are talking about before you comment on things. Learn how to build a toon, then come back and comment.

[GhoulsTouch]

Dex rogues are sneaky, and tend to try to stay hidden while slowly trying to get some damage in from successful sneak attacks hidden because alot of times damage reduction weakens their strikes and stronger less consistent strikes make for less aggro. Stronger rogues tend to do the opposite. They hit as much as they can until they draw aggro or kill. That's why mid range weapons that strike fast are perferable to weapons that will draw too much aggro, or too little to be really effective. If you do have to toe to toe strength bonuses do help when you aggro.

You do alot of damage, just not in every strike with heavy weapons say like kopeshes that can get you in trouble. Overall it's about the same damage especially when you consider the Kopesh weilder would more likely be driven away faster when the monster comes at him for doing so much damage in one blow and especially if he had high strength to add on top of it.

That's why I think quarterstaff works well for rogues.

A good medium works well I believe concerning stats.

[Lleren]

On the old AD&D, monks used to add half their level to weapon damage, but non to unarmed (open hand) attacks. Quoting, "this reflects the study of anatomy".

I think it can work in DDO.

Back in the old "There can be only one!" days of Monkdom?

[sephiroth1084]

Dex rogues are sneaky, and tend to try to stay hidden while slowly trying to get some damage in from successful sneak attacks hidden because alot of times damage reduction weakens their strikes and stronger less consistent strikes make for less aggro. Stronger rogues tend to do the opposite. They hit as much as they can until they draw aggro or kill. That's why mid range weapons that strike fast are perferable to weapons that will draw too much aggro, or too little to be really affective.

You do alot of damage, just not in every strike say like with kopeshes that can get you in trouble, but with more strikes over time. Overall it's about the same damage especially when you consider the Kopesh weilder would more likely be driven away faster when the monster comes at him for doing so much damage in one blow.

What? This is about as far from accurate as a statement could be. Why would a Dex rogue not be swinging away going all-out DPS? That's what Subtle Backstabbing, Diplomacy and Radiance are for. Have you ever played a rogue? I know you talk about them a lot as though you had some real knowledge and authority, but have you actually played one (or several)? I ask, because it seems apparent that you're talking completely out of your ass.

[GhoulsTouch]

Going toe to toe with something that can smash you isn't a great tactic for a rogue that can't really do significant damage when he loses his sneak attack bonus. Against trash mobs sure, a finesse rogue can eat trash mobs up alive...anything bigger he better watch his step. This is all in respect of a rogue not having decent strength now. In case you didn't read earlier this is in regards to someone bashing rogues with high strength and how dex should be higher on a rogue.

If you hit everytime with a supernatural halfling dex, you draw tons of aggro. I did that with my first rogue. I found it better when I faced heavy hitters to do the backstab technique since I could hit everytime, but I ate trash mobs up like no tomorrow. When I did draw aggro from the heavy hitters (which happened alot), I had to run off alot.

You know that extra (X)d6 makes a difference and more so when you find you are only pinging on them without it. You go from doing the most damage to the least when you lose it at times. If you are hitting everytime, or if you are doing way too much damage no matter how much diplomacy you have even if you are using subtle backstabbing you are going to draw aggro.

It's better to be balanced concerning stats in my book. A few extra points of damage does go a long way especially with creatures with damage reductions.

[sephiroth1084]

Going toe to toe with something that can smash you isn't a great tactic for a rogue that can't really do significant damage when he loses his sneak attack bonus. Against trash mobs sure, a finesse rogue can eat trash mobs up alive...anything bigger he better watch his step. This is all in respect of a rogue not having decent strength now. In case you didn't read earlier this is in regards to someone bashing rogues with high strength and how dex should be higher on a rogue.

If you hit everytime with a supernatural halfling dex, you draw tons of aggro. I did that with my first rogue. I found it better when I faced heavy hitters to do the backstab technique since I could hit everytime, but I ate trash mobs up like no tomorrow. When I did draw aggro from the heavy hitters (which happened alot), I had to run off alot.

You know that extra (X)d6 makes a difference and more so when you find you are only pinging on them without it. You go from doing the most damage to the least when you lose it at times. If you are hitting everytime, or if you are doing way too much damage no matter how much diplomacy you have even if you are using subtle backstabbing you are going to draw aggro.

It's better to be balanced concerning stats in my book. A few extra points of damage does go a long way especially with creatures with damage reductions.

A Str-based rogue isn't doing all that much more damage than a Dex-based, so the difference there is negligible when discussing what happens when a rogue gains aggro--they both suck.
Dex rogue:
12 Str + 6 item +2 tome = 20 (+5)
Str rogue:
16 +5 level +6 item +2 tome +1 something else = 30 (+10)

5 damage difference per swing is hardly going to make a huge difference. The biggest benefit of the Str rogue, in my opinion, is that it deals with elementals, undead and constructs better. Yes, it has higher DPS, but not much higher. And that's assuming that the Str rogue is either a WF or halfling (expensive to get a 16 Str on a halfling), since, when they don't have aggro, the halfling rogue is getting +6 or +8 more damage.

A WF could be getting +3 per swing and makes a better Str rogue, but that difference looks a lot smaller in that case, especially considering the fact that you get only 1/2 Str on off-hand attacks. Q-staff users look a little better in the base damage category, but lose a bit in the weapon category (crappy crit profile).


My Dex-based rogue has no problem dealing with bosses: let someone else get aggro, max out your Subtle Backstabbing, use Diplo, back off for a moment if you gain aggro, move to get behind so you aren't getting smacked (and to get the bonus from Halfling Cunning if needed)--also helps in slowing your DPS a tad, but rarely necessary--use a Deception weapon.

I almost never had a problem when leveling, and at high levels, even with PA, GTWF, solid weapons and maxed SA damage, I don't gain aggro, hitting for between 70 and 110 a swing on non-crits. The Tharne's set might help as well, but I only just got it, so it's hardly necessary--will probably help more in shedding aggro if you're the first one to start DPSing a monster.

There is absolutely no reason a rogue should be attacking while in sneak mode unless they are scouting or Assassinating (and this will be a moot point soon anyway since the devs are removing this ability).

Any and every rogue should be learning how to mitigate and manage aggro, because if you have aggro, you aren't really doing your job.

[Morningfrost]

Back in the old "There can be only one!" days of Monkdom?

Yeah, I really liked the class as it was implemented there. It required a very unique style of game playing.