18/2 Paladin/rogue Human TWF Kopesh

[rest]

raise dead = umd 36
Heal = umd 40
Stone skin = umd 32
Displacement = umd 28

-1 each, as you can still succeed on a 1.

Most people who go for umd try to hit 39 as it is the magic number.

[unbongwah]

So would you say this build is superior to the other one then?

It's a tradeoff: UMD brings extra versatility to the table and a bit of sneak attack damage never hurts you; but extra feats are always nice and monk in theory will let you hit higher AC (but like I said, with WIS as a dump stat and no CE, I'm not sure if it will be enough to mean much).

[DethTrip]

It's a tradeoff: UMD brings extra versatility to the table and a bit of sneak attack damage never hurts you; but extra feats are always nice and monk in theory will let you hit higher AC (but like I said, with WIS as a dump stat and no CE, I'm not sure if it will be enough to mean much).

Exactly the same trade off I saw. I kinda like the sneak attack bonus and the extra dex to round it off at 18. I like the UMD as well but I don't know if mine will be high enough. Can someone tell me if the 18/2 Pal/Rog build will reach the "magic" 39 UMD with a +6 chr item? If not, what else would I need? I put everything I could into UMD each lvl with the build.

[bunkerhugger]

I vote for rogue splash over monk. I think UMD is worth it, especially if you like to goof around and explore - teleport, dimension door, heal, flame strike, cone of cold - some quests can't be completed without a caster or some UMD (or maybe they can and I just take the easy way out).

Mental toughness is wasted on this guy - get a wizardry item if you think you'll go through sp that fast, but I'm guessing you won't.

I use Rogue Speed Boost a lot - stacking that on top of zeal really makes the khopeshes fly. You could drop Energy of the Templar III for it.

Extend spell can go either way - I prefer to skip it for Power Attack or Oversized two weapon fighting - but it does mean I have to twitch and click a lot more - it just depends on your play style.

[Mangloid]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
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18/2 Pal/Mnk Human TWF Kopesh
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Monk) 
Hit Points: 338
Spell Points: 343 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 20
Will: 21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    18

So would you say this build is superior to the other one then?

NO, your proposed monk splash build is not superior at all. However, Calozz78's build http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/suicidal/ is. I still feel that a 32 point human could out perform a drow though.

What you've failed to grasp with the monk splash is that you NEED Wisdom in order to make it work. One of the reasons for the monk splash is the AC bonus that comes from the monks wisdom bonus to AC. The other is for the two feats.

Also what you've failed to grasp is that the AC on a monk splash is going to be far, far better than that of a rogue splash. A little more UMD (as you claim it will have more UMD) in no way makes up for the AC potential of a monk splash. You can reach 36 UMD on a Pally/monk build keeping your same int. You just need a little gear and a few buffs. A rogue splash will have junk for AC while a monk splash will have to potential (if built right) to tank elites and epics. Seems like an easy call.

[Ralmeth]

Exactly the same trade off I saw. I kinda like the sneak attack bonus and the extra dex to round it off at 18. I like the UMD as well but I don't know if mine will be high enough. Can someone tell me if the 18/2 Pal/Rog build will reach the "magic" 39 UMD with a +6 chr item? If not, what else would I need? I put everything I could into UMD each lvl with the build.

Yes, you can definitely get there. If you start your charisma at 16, eat a +2 tome and get a +6 charisma item that puts your charisma at a 24. Of course with enhancements or exceptional charisma bonus higher is possible. Assuming a 24 charisma though here is a breakdown:

UMD
23 - Skill points added (4 at 1st, and 1 every level thereafter)
7 - Charisma
6 - Shroud Charisma Item
----
36, then you would just pick up SF-UMD perhaps as your 18th level feat, or use any UMD item in the game and you are there. For example the golden cartouche, which is relatively easy to get from Delaras end reward is +3 UMD.

[DethTrip]

NO, your proposed monk splash build is not superior at all. However, Calozz78's build http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/suicidal/ is. I still feel that a 32 point human could out perform a drow though.

What you've failed to grasp with the monk splash is that you NEED Wisdom in order to make it work. One of the reasons for the monk splash is the AC bonus that comes from the monks wisdom bonus to AC. The other is for the two feats.

Also what you've failed to grasp is that the AC on a monk splash is going to be far, far better than that of a rogue splash. A little more UMD (as you claim it will have more UMD) in no way makes up for the AC potential of a monk splash. You can reach 36 UMD on a Pally/monk build keeping your same int. You just need a little gear and a few buffs. A rogue splash will have junk for AC while a monk splash will have to potential (if built right) to tank elites and epics. Seems like an easy call.

Actually, I do grasp that wisdom is the attribute used for the bonus to AC that monks get. With a +6 item my wisdom will be 14 which is all I need to cast the highest lvl spells I will cast. Besides that, my AC will not be junk lol. How much of a bonus are you expecting the monk splash to give me? I don't want to put more points into wisdom just for a few AC. Isn't it half your wisdom bonus added to your ac as a monk? So wouldn't that be +1 AC with 14 wisdom? I really don't know so help me out here.

[unbongwah]

What you've failed to grasp with the monk splash is that you NEED Wisdom in order to make it work.

And you've neglected to mention which stat(s) he should sap to up his WIS. CHA? STR? CON? What should he give up for a few more points of AC?

[Mangloid]

Actually, I do grasp that wisdom is the attribute used for the bonus to AC that monks get. With a +6 item my wisdom will be 14 which is all I need to cast the highest lvl spells I will cast. Besides that, my AC will not be junk lol. How much of a bonus are you expecting the monk splash to give me? I don't want to put more points into wisdom just for a few AC. Isn't it half your wisdom bonus added to your ac as a monk? So wouldn't that be +1 AC with 14 wisdom? I really don't know so help me out here.

If you are not willing to pump wisdom at all, then there is no point in even suggesting a monk splash. By simply starting with 14 wisdom, adding one level up to it, a +6 stat item, +2 excep wisdom, 1 action point, and a +2 tome you will end up with 26 wisdom. This nets you a total of an additional 8 AC.

And you've neglected to mention which stat(s) he should sap to up his WIS. CHA? STR? CON? What should he give up for a few more points of AC?

As far as the "a few extra ac" comment-- Can your suggested build pull off 78 AC wile TWF with power attack on? a monk splash can.

I'll let you figure out how to get where they are instead of spoon feeding it to you. yes, i know I linked 34 and 36 point build, but use your head a little. It's still very possible with a 32 point.

Here's an example ( still in progress to meet the max potential)
http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/deuterium/

And Here's a 36 point build
http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/its/

[DethTrip]

I updated it again to add power attack. Let me know what you think of the change. Thanks.

[DelScorcho]

Exactly the same trade off I saw. I kinda like the sneak attack bonus and the extra dex to round it off at 18. I like the UMD as well but I don't know if mine will be high enough. Can someone tell me if the 18/2 Pal/Rog build will reach the "magic" 39 UMD with a +6 chr item? If not, what else would I need? I put everything I could into UMD each lvl with the build.

The answer is definately yes. My TR toon is a recreation of an earlier 18/2 I did before TR was added to the game. He hit 39 at level 16. Currently, this is how it will play out, even without exceptional bonuses or non-shroud raid loot

Ranks 23
Charisma (26) 8
Shroud 6
Greater Hero 4
Trinket 1= 42 UMD

To hit it at 16 with my earlier build, I used the golden cartoush that drops in deleras (+1 int, +3 UMD). If you don't have the shroud item built, the cartosh will get you there at 20. Truth be told, a 18/2 is one of the better characters to run in the shroud, as they are survable, have incredible reflex saves, and automatically get DR by-passing weapons. You can get your 20 completions quick. Since they added 4 more levels, the character doesn't need to burn his necklace slot. Please note, although GH isn't a buff the pally gets, you can buy GH scrolls in the portable hole. To get to the portable hole, buy teleport scrolls in house J.

Other items that help are the trinket in the stormreaver, and the gloves from the titan raid. At early levels, to use certain scrolls, human versitility boosts are good for using things like GH scrolls.

I went with more int on my build, because Pallys get so few skill points, you need to be human with 10 starting int to max intimidate and UMD. If you go rogue first, you can get somewhat useful seach and disable skills that will get you through the harbor, but open locks is better, as a +15 item will allow you to open most chests and doors in the game. I take the first rogue level at 1 and the second at 9.

[DethTrip]

I take the first rogue level at 1 and the second at 9.

Some very good info. Why at lvl 9? Do you get a bonus to UMD that way? Gonna tinker on the generator to see what the dif is.