SP conservation tips?

[DANTEIL]

I saw a similar thread in the Cleric forum, and was motivated to ask a similar question here..

I've been running more quests solo recently, especially since I've gotten to higher levels and it is harder to find groups for many things. When I solo with a hireling (and thank you, Level 17 cleric whose name escapes me now but who seems to be the only high-level cleric who carries Divine Vitality!), dying rarely becomes a problem -- unless I'm attempting a quest that is markedly difficult for my non-geared-out character, like Amrath. Instead, my primary problem when soloing things like the Reaver's Refuge quests or some of the Vale/Sands quests is that I inevitably run out of SP--which then of course turns into a crisis for my suddenly-defenseless wizard.

So, I'd like to get a better handle on how to do better at conserving my SP when soloing. This is especially a problem when I don't know the quests well or where the next shrine is (which is most of the quests at this point). I pay attention to SP conservation when grouping, but obviously it is easier in that situation since I don't have to be responsible for killing everything. And I've watched some of the mrCow soloing-wiz videos but unfortunately I don't have the solo-wiz skillz that he does and I can't always tell from the video what spells he is casting.

So tips?

Just to anticipate some of the responses, here are two things that I know I can do better and that might help:

1) CC spells. In high-level groups I rarely use these since melee's just seem to cut everything down so fast. So this point may be about retraining myself when soloing to try out some alternative strategies like Mass Charm/Suggestion etc. I'm probably too quick to rely on strict damage spells, like Scorching Ray, Wall of Fire, Polar Ray. Obviously when maximized etc., these eat up a lot of SP.

2) Scrolls. Okay true-confession time: I've gotten to the high levels of the game and have yet to figure out how to effectively use scrolls. I know, the shame!! but each time I've attempted to use a scroll (especially in the heat of battle) I've only figured out how to get them to work correctly by accident. And the offensive scrolls seem to work differently from the defensive scrolls, and it seems to matter whether you have to target something in particular or not. It's frustrating. So here's my question (and you can't learn if you don't ask, right?): What's the foolproof way to use a scroll? I think that if I knew how to reliably cast from a scroll, I would be more likely to go out and stock up on stacks of (insert useful spell here) and use those when I run out of SP. Secondary question: What are useful scrolls to stack up on?


Finally, another related question:

How does one know when to turn on and/or off Empower, Maximize, Heighten etc etc.? Having these things on eat up a lot of SP, but sometimes you need them on in order to take out a high-level mob. I typically leave Extend and Maximize on, and usually Heighten, and will add Empower for special occasions. Is this overkill?

[ArgentMage]

So, as a Cleric, I have found the best way to conserve spell points is to have
a Greater/Superior Devotion item. This gives a huge bonus to healing, so I use fewer
heal spells. Likewise, I expect if you found some boost items (example:
Greater/Superior Combustion), you would find that you don't have to use Maximize
as much for say, Firewalls, as you get the bonus from the item instead of metamagic.

Maybe you already have these, but if not...

[DANTEIL]

So, as a Cleric, I have found the best way to conserve spell points is to have
a Greater/Superior Devotion item. This gives a huge bonus to healing, so I use fewer
heal spells. Likewise, I expect if you found some boost items (example:
Greater/Superior Combustion), you would find that you don't have to use Maximize
as much for say, Firewalls, as you get the bonus from the item instead of metamagic.

Maybe you already have these, but if not...

Yea, I get confused by all of the distinctions between item types, but I know that i have both Fire Lore and Combustion items. I don't recall exactly what level they are. I also know that I definitely forget to 'activate' the 3x/day fire/combustion clickie when I enter into bigger fights. Thanks for the reminder.

[ArgentMage]

Yea, I get confused by all of the distinctions between item types, but I know that i have both Fire Lore and Combustion items. I don't recall exactly what level they are. I also know that I definitely forget to 'activate' the 3x/day fire/combustion clickie when I enter into bigger fights. Thanks for the reminder.

Ah, right, so here's another distinction: There are some items that need to be activated
to give you the bonus, and there are some items where the bonus is on all the time.
They have different names. For clerics, Ardor is the clicky that lasts for 3 minutes,
and Devotion is the item where the power is on all the time. For fire, you probably
want an item that is on all the time. There's a chart that shows them all:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Weapon_enhan...t_Enhancements

The power levels go (as an example): Devotion 20%, Improved Devotion 30%,
Greater Devotion 40%, Superior Devotion 50%. For the clickies, the power gains are
actually larger, even though the descriptions say they are the same, but I feel that
the effect that gets used because you don't have to think about it is better than
the one you forget about.

[Futility]

If you can handle multiple mobs on you at the same time - herd them and lay a Max-Empowered-Extended-Lore'd-Potent/Inferno'ed/Frenzied Firewall (assuming you went all the way with the Elemental Enhancement trees. Kite mobs or Turtle in a corner with a shield (Light and Darkness). AoE saves mana. If mobs are fire-immune, your choices are limited - Cone of Cold (more mana) or Acid Fog (lower DoT). If your necromancy DCs and spell penetration are high, gather the mobs and Whail them.

Other than that, get more mana from feats/enhancements/items or start working on mana regen (Bauble, Torc, Con-Op, Abbot gear).

[ArgentMage]

And, just to be clear, while the activated items are often weapons, there are
continuous-effect items that are regular gear. For instance, you might stumble upon
a Greater Combustion Helm of Power V (40% increase in fire spell power and +50 spell
points)...

[Theolin]

For items I would get a superior potency one handed item & for the other hand switch spell pen and fire /cold/acid/.. lore item unless of course you happen to be lucky and have a easier way to do it.
and get a spell point item

then:
take some/all of the scholar enhancements
and maybe the feats mental toughness though that depends on many other design choices

And after all of that, what it really boils down to is - its more a matter of strategy, meaning when/how to use
charm, stealth, death or damage spells

Look at Ghoste's posts on wizards/stealth or the Diaries of a true Reincarnate - arcane to get some ideas.

[Wyrmnax]

If you are firewalling or wailing mobs, dont grab 1 at a time. Sp is much more effective if you spend 100 to kill 15 mobs instead of 1 or 3.

That alone should go a long way.

Buffing: keep in mind what you are using. You dont need blur if you are doing Displacement ( and running, because Disp. duration is short ). You dont need Haste as long as you have a decent striding item. Keep on only the resists that you will use on the quest.

Grab a Bauble as soon as you can. Its a lv18 item, but once you get it its ~300 more sp per shrine.

Dont quicken your buffing. Dont maximize + empower + extend your firewall if only maximize + extend will do. Use reconstruct scrolls to heal yourself instead of relying on the spell.

Once you grab a Torc or Concordant Opposition item these things get much better.

[ddoer]

... This is especially a problem when I don't know the quests well or where the next shrine is (which is most of the quests at this point). I pay attention to SP conservation when grouping, but obviously it is easier in that situation since I don't have to be responsible for killing everything. ...
So tips?

my tips:

1. you definitely have to learn about how many and where are the rest shrines in every quest if you try to solo.
2. in solo, avoid as many mobs as possible. and use firewall or any aoe spell instead of single foe spell. use invisible whenever it is possible. say if you got aggro from 10 mobs, you may kill 6 of them and then just run away without getting a yellow/red alert that may affect you from completing the quest. You don't have to kill everything.
3. use torc and concordant opposition for regen mana.
4. use spell effectively. you got to know which spell is the best for each mob. e.g. those orthon/devils are lower in will save than in fort save that make it easier for your to charm/hold them than fod/banshee them. for any mob that are vulnerable to fire, I usually just use firewall (even though it takes a much longer time to kill)
5. use spell efficiently. it means you should swap gear to get a necromancy/enchantment/conjuration/etc focus gear to get a +1/+2 DC or use a major ice/fire/etc lore to get an extra crit chance and multipler.
6. for damage spells, you got to use a superior inferno/freeze/etc pots/clickie that give you +75% damage. (while superior potency give only +50%) In low level, you could just buy those pots from the House P shop.
7. I personally don't turn off max/emp/quicken/heighten, and i only toggle for the extend, and invested action points for metamagic efficiency.
8. using scroll is not a very big issue. some scrolls may help you to save mana a bit such as GH, protection from elements etc.

[DANTEIL]

These are all very useful bits of information.. thanks to all.

So obviously getting the Torc (DQ raid, right?) and Concordant Opposition (Shroud Tier 3 item, right?) are general bits of advice. Hrm, so those are not quick solutions, but good to keep in mind. I had to look up the Bauble -- had never heard of it. I've never done Weapons Shipment yet (or any Shavrath quest) -- I assume that the Bauble has a low drop rate like anything else?

and yea I'm still learning what spells are good for what kind of mob. I still have very little idea what kind of saves different kinds of mobs have -- like I had no idea that Orthons/Devils have a lower will save than fort save. Makes me wanna go into the Vale and try hold monster a bunch of times, although FoD usually works fine there.

Does invisibility really work? The few times I've tried it (as I was leveling up) it always seemed like monsters could see through it or it ended as soon as I did anything other than stand still or walk.

I've never used any of the superior inferno/freeze potions -- I had always seen them in the vendors and wondered if anybody actually ever used them. It is a good idea to pick up some of those, though.

I'm glad to know that scrolls don't seem to be a big factor. I won't worry much more about them then.


It's good to have some specific things to try, though!

my tips:

1. you definitely have to learn about how many and where are the rest shrines in every quest if you try to solo.
2. in solo, avoid as many mobs as possible. and use firewall or any aoe spell instead of single foe spell. use invisible whenever it is possible. say if you got aggro from 10 mobs, you may kill 6 of them and then just run away without getting a yellow/red alert that may affect you from completing the quest. You don't have to kill everything.
3. use torc and concordant opposition for regen mana.
4. use spell effectively. you got to know which spell is the best for each mob. e.g. those orthon/devils are lower in will save than in fort save that make it easier for your to charm/hold them than fod/banshee them. for any mob that are vulnerable to fire, I usually just use firewall (even though it takes a much longer time to kill)
5. use spell efficiently. it means you should swap gear to get a necromancy/enchantment/conjuration/etc focus gear to get a +1/+2 DC or use a major ice/fire/etc lore to get an extra crit chance and multipler.
6. for damage spells, you got to use a superior inferno/freeze/etc pots/clickie that give you +75% damage. (while superior potency give only +50%) In low level, you could just buy those pots from the House P shop.
7. I personally don't turn off max/emp/quicken/heighten, and i only toggle for the extend, and invested action points for metamagic efficiency.
8. using scroll is not a very big issue. some scrolls may help you to save mana a bit such as GH, protection from elements etc.

[wolfy42]

Invisibility does work..and very well, although it helps if you boost your move silently skill and wear a move silently item when using it. With haste alone you can zoom through huge parts of quests without having to fight just by using invisibility.

There are many AoE spells....even early on...that can be used to help you conserve mana. Usually it makes sense to use maximize at least (and empower if needed) with them so you can take out huge groups of enemies at once.

If a quest has 3 groups of large enemies you gather them all up quickly by zooming through and around a corner and then pound them with a nice AoE spell. 15 dead enemies with 1 spell that costs 50 spell points is a great deal.

Grab the achrivists necklace x2 from korthos island (if your veteran) or just 1 if your not. It's 100 extra spell points right from the start of the game.

Save shrines until your out of mana...come back for em otherwise.

Unlike the above posters I suggest you don't use empower/maximize unless you need to especially if you have full potency or better items. If your already boosting your damage by 30%+ from enhancement and 50% from potency item then your base damage is 180%...adding another 100% damage to that is actually only a bit more then a 50% damabe boost...and your spending 20 or so more spell points even with enhancements (equipment can drop it more..but if you had it you probably wouldn't be asking). 2 spells that cost 15 a pop and do 180% damage x2 (360% total) is better then 1 spell that costs 40 spell points and does 280% damage. You only need to use mazimize/empower if the enemies can not be hit by another spell before they get to you.

As mentioned above herd enemies together and then kill them all with 1 spell...not only does it save mana, it saves time as well.

[sirgog]

Tips to soloing as a Wizard:

Cast Invisibility, Haste, Jump and any relevant resists (counting Fire Shield as a resist; in unknown content use Protection from Elements instead). Run like a cat that's been set on fire.

When forced to, drop a big, extra toasty firewall, and hide inside it while everything attacking you dies. Recast Invisibility immediately after throwing the firewall (foes will have some sense of where you are, but will still have a 50% miss chance, same as Displacement).

[Futility]

Does invisibility really work? The few times I've tried it (as I was leveling up) it always seemed like monsters could see through it or it ended as soon as I did anything other than stand still or walk.

Just because mobs can't see you doesn't automatically mean they can't hear you
Ever seen those red flashes by mobs' feet? That's a visual representaion of "noise" in DDO.
That's what mobs see-hear. As others mentioned it, Move Silently skill should alleviate it.

What happens when mobs hear you? Melee will go to the first spot they heard your steps.
Archers will try shooting at that spot. Casters might cast at that spot (watch out for firewalls).

Play with invisibility and you will quickly get an idea on how it works, its perks and drawbacks.
You can make mobs follow your noise while invisible. Use this to single-pull them or
draw them away from a tight spot you want to squeeze through. Avoid bumping into
the mobs as it's more likely to cause detection. Don't stay in one spot for too long.

Pulling a lever, opening a chest will break invisibility - just be ready to recast it quick.
It becomes a habit - pull switch - recast invisibility. Carry invisibility clickies for cases
when you have to pull multiple levers / open doors over a short run. They save mana, too.

If you ask me what my favorite spell is - yep it's invisibility

[Aspenor]

Turn off empower unless you really need DPS more than sp efficiency. Only use heighten when you're using lower level spells where the DC difference is drastic (like web or hypnotism).

[DANTEIL]

Hrm, now I wish that I had been putting more points into Move Silently all this time, so that I could better try out Invisibility now.

Again, appreciate the feedback! I'm definitely going to try some of these things.. especially maybe being more proactive about turning empower/heighten off and on. Just like I forget clickies, I often forget I can do this too

[wolfy42]

Hrm, now I wish that I had been putting more points into Move Silently all this time, so that I could better try out Invisibility now.

Again, appreciate the feedback! I'm definitely going to try some of these things.. especially maybe being more proactive about turning empower/heighten off and on. Just like I forget clickies, I often forget I can do this too

A move silently item + cats grace and Greater heroism alone can get your move silently up high enough for most situations...although I do suggest maxing it as a wizard anyway (you have plenty of points!!).

Also the faster you move the more effective invisibility is.....with great speed comes great invisibility *heh*.

[wolfy42]

A "fun" class to play is a halfling wizard 17/rogue 2/barbarian 1.

The build has extreme speed (and you really feel it as a halfling) and can really use invisibility well. You also can have quite a nice reflex save without having to take insightful reflexes (and you don't need a high int either which means you can be a decent melee wizard).

Main problem is lack of feats but since you won't need heighten or quicken, it is not that bad.

Invisibility in that build with maxed move silently is great.

[sirgog]

Hrm, now I wish that I had been putting more points into Move Silently all this time, so that I could better try out Invisibility now.

Again, appreciate the feedback! I'm definitely going to try some of these things.. especially maybe being more proactive about turning empower/heighten off and on. Just like I forget clickies, I often forget I can do this too

No need for Move Silently.

It only works when you are stealthed, and you won't be most of the time.

Just cast Invisibility and RUN.

[Bloodhaven]

I just invis/haste/jump and zerg to the end while occasionally stopping to kill off masses of mobs in a firewall or 1-2 cone o colds. This works well in allot of quests even vale quests. Killing mobs 1 at a time is a bad way to do things in later levels. You will run out of mana long before you run out of mobs to kill.

[Galapas]

Gathering up mobs in a firewall is good. If it's a swarm of things that don't hit hard, shield block with a tower shield. Otherwise jump. Remember to jump back and forth through your wall, since this will inflict more damage on the critters.

Charms are good power savers for 2 reasons. You get something on your side, but more importantly, if you're out of sight, and you charm something, it will gather a crowd, allowing you to AoE more efficiently.

Use wands and scrolls when you can. Anything without a save, any buffs, they are good candidates here. Scorching ray wands are good for those things that have a sliver of health. 7th and 11th level versions are not uncommon.

BTW - to consistantly use scrolls correctly, make a stack of them, and put it on your quick bar. You can even have a dedicated quickbar with a bunch of them. The first click equips one, the second uses it. I forget if another pops into your hand or not. Good scrolls are effects spells that have no save - enervate, waves of exhaustion - or buffs that are too high for a wand - protection from elements. Enervate is very useful for solitary tough creatures since it lowers saves by 2-8 each time (or so I've been told. I thought it was 1-4). Solid fog used to be a great scroll, but they made it much less effective. Other good scrolls are hard to find - dimension door, energy drain etc.