Ok so the idea for this guy is to have decent offensive power by way of Ranged DPS, Then be able to not have to move when that dps draws the aggro via high AC (without massive buffing or 20 second pops). Finally be able to serve as a bard while doing those things by focusing on buffs pre-fight and heals-infight and have staying power in the sp category! I don't need to hear I'm spreading myself too thin I have 3 goals with this build, having offense while not spending sp, Have enough sp to keep the party buffed but not so much that people cry be our healbot, Finally High AC /staying power when the shiza hits the fan.
side note: I realize that not having strength/finesse is a big issue but consider that the pick is simply the best when you roll a 20 option as well as the fact that I can pick up a str Item later on to have some to-hit. most of the time I will be turtled spamming CC or Heal when I switch to that.
Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34 DDO Character Planner Home Page Shootemup Picktodaface Level 20 Neutral Good Drow Male (2 Fighter \ 1 Sorcerer \ 17 Bard) Hit Points: 238 Spell Points: 850 BAB: 14\14\19\24 Fortitude: 10 Reflex: 16 Will: 17 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Strength 8 8 8 Dexterity 16 20 22 Constitution 14 14 14 Intelligence 16 16 16 Wisdom 8 8 8 Charisma 16 17 20 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Balance 7 29 29 Bluff 3 8 8 Concentration 6 25 25 Diplomacy 7 27 27 Disable Device n/a n/a n/a Haggle 3 5 5 Heal -1 -1 -1 Hide 7 29 29 Intimidate 3 12 12 Jump 1 9 9 Listen 3 11 13 Move Silently 7 28 28 Open Lock n/a n/a n/a Perform 7 28 28 Repair 3 3 3 Search 3 3 5 Spot -1 -1 1 Swim -1 1 1 Tumble 5 8 8 Use Magic Device 7 28 28 {\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Bard's Cloak \par Morah's Belt \par Connor's Band \par Ring of Unknown Origins \par Gauntlets of Eternity \par Gyroscopic Boots of Striding \par Chaosgarde \par Breastplate of Destruction \par Sandstorm Goggles \par Minos Legens \par +5 Paralyzing Heavy Pick of Puncturing \par +5 Vorpal Repeating Heavy Crossbow of Puncturing \par \par Level 1 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot Feat: (Automatic) Attack Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General) Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds Level 2 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL) Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Sunder Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Trip Level 3 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Heavy Crossbow Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors Level 4 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot Level 5 (Bard) Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence Spell (1): Grease Level 6 (Sorcerer) Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training Spell (1): Shield Spell (1): Feather Fall Level 7 (Bard) Spell (2): Blur Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds Level 8 (Bard) Spell (2): Glitterdust Spell (1): Otto's Resistable Dance Level 9 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion Level 10 (Bard) Spell (2): Heroism Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds Spell (3): Displacement Level 11 (Bard) Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage Spell (3): Good Hope Level 12 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness Level 13 (Bard) Spell (3): Dispel Magic Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds Spell (4): Freedom of Movement Level 14 (Bard) Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing Level 15 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom Level 16 (Bard) Spell (4): Shout Spell (5): Mind Fog Spell (5): Mass Suggestion Level 17 (Bard) Spell (5): Greater Heroism Level 18 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics Level 19 (Bard) Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat Spell (5): Shadow Walk Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds Spell (6): Summon Monster VI Level 20 (Bard) Spell (2): Soundburst Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance II Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance III Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance IV Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity II Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity III Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song II Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Enhancement: Bard Charisma II Enhancement: Bard Charisma III Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
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04-19-2010, 08:12 PM #1Community Member
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Character plan needs critique repeater/pick AC
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04-20-2010, 01:02 AM #2Community Member
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If you want to do high damage as a bard you:
Originally Posted by Kalikorz
1) Have high Str and pick up the THF feats. Level ups into str.
2) Have high Str and high dex and pick up the TWF. Level ups into str.
I don't see the point in the sorceror level? A few extra sp?
There is very little point in having a charisma of 16 - you won't be landing mny spells with your build anyway.
FOP isn't needed - you'll have high will saves anyway. You are spending a precious feat on a save that isn't a weakness.
Sorry about all the criticisms
Last edited by BoBoDaClown; 04-20-2010 at 01:07 AM.
Server: Thelanis
Guild: Fallen Immortals
Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)
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04-20-2010, 01:56 AM #3Community Member
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Thanks for the quick feedback
I like the FOP comment will incorporate probably Weapon finesse and have rapiers for the can't hit em mobs instead?
actually the dps on this character is at range as I mentioned and more for the idea that I could hit everything in a line far faster than anyone can take out each one before moving on so that is how ranged can actually do dps. The problem is that it actually shoots slower when hasted due to the inability of the server to put that many projectiles on that quickly. It can be somewhat remedied by spamming the fire button instead of holding it. when done correctly I can out rof non-tempest gtwf builds, but just a lil bit. They hit harder but they don't hit everyone behind the dude their hitting.
Anyway. I see your point about casting pulling you out of CE and the idea would be the classic 5 foot step(tumble whatev) cast 5 foot step CE manuever but you can run out of room fairly fast. doing that they get one good swing at you before your up to full ac again. being able to self cast displace obviously helps alot. If it's really a problem then just diplomacy and sit there till the tank's intimidate pulls them off you.
The CC is not the focus for this build for sure but some effects such as obscuring fog etc really don't need to be high level to work also the primary CC fascinate is skill dependent and suffers not at all, I think.
Bard has trouble with DPS to begin with it seemed to me that ranged DPS would fit more with the playstyle of a bard. the decently high dex bonus and such also helps the ac it seems a natural pairing.
The sorc level has the potential to supply 200-500 extra spell points with item enhancements being higher therefore yeah I think those few extra spell points will be worth it. Consider that the build has 632 without sorce and 850 after sorc no items included that's over a 1/4 lost capacity without it.Last edited by Kalikorz; 04-20-2010 at 02:14 AM.
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04-20-2010, 02:23 AM #4Community Member
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NP
Personally if I was to make a ranged repeater Bard, I would try to make it work on either a pure or a fighter rogue mix. That means: Originally Posted by Kalikorz
Pure = full bard buffs + can lesser reincarnate into a CC based or melee based pure bard.
Bard/FIghter/Rogue mix= can lesser reincarnate into a dps bard.
i.e. you wouldn't have to buy the more expensive level changing reincarnates if it didn't work out.
Best of luck!Last edited by BoBoDaClown; 04-20-2010 at 02:34 AM.
Server: Thelanis
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04-20-2010, 10:36 AM #5Community Member
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He is a shield carrier
Nothing is stopping him from carryin a shield I see the miscomm now yeah he would be wielding a pick an shield obviously for the ac. Then switch out when the agro get's off him.
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04-20-2010, 11:44 AM #6Build Constructionist
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If you really want to do decent ranged DPS as a bard, I suggest an arcane archer bard instead. I have a ranger 2 / ftr 2 / bard 16 AA build which I think needs refining but is a decent starting point. The repeater builds I've seen typically focus on procing effects on crits, not DPS.
I've never seen a bard build which hits high AC, even with CE and good-to-great DEX. You just can't pull off the same high-AC tricks as, say, a traditional tank or a high-WIS monk-splash build like the Exploiter can. Bards usually rely on Blur / Displacement and aggro management to avoid getting hit; and DR (e.g., Ironskin Chant, Stoneskin wands or scrolls) to mitigate damage when they do get hit.
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04-20-2010, 04:19 PM #7Community Member
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Some of my experiences:
-A repeater based bard is hard to run in upper end content. I had a drow bard with all the fun repeaters (banish, disrupt, stat based damage, etc) and it felt once I got beyond the Vale they weren't really effective at all. I actually just lesser reincarnated him into a TWF rapier user and I'm having a lot more fun. I think he's going to end up as a 16bard/2ftr/2rog. Party healing will be done with Maximized mass cure moderate wounds and UMDing Heal scrolls (max ranks of Wand/Scroll Mastery).
-Effective AC is very hard to get on a bard. Basically you need to aim for about 55ish in the Vale and 65-70 in Inspiration Quarter and Shavrath. Otherwise you may as well have a paper bag on. A melee bard's greatest defensive assets are displacement and stoneskin sometimes combined with shield blocking and of course applying Fascinate and Otto's irresistable dance as needed. With those defensive measures combined with a high concentration skill I've healed just fine in the middle of 7 cleaving orthons and bearded devils in end game content.
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04-21-2010, 02:56 PM #8Community Member
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Thanks for the input
Thanks for the input all maybe I will try something with sneak attack to do DPS. technically hasted repeaters should be viable in endgame content but the developers are citing a technical limitation that doesn't seem to have a fix (all rof feats =200 bolts in 120 seconds / hasted + all rof feats = 173 bolts in 120 seconds) this is due to the server lag times and juynk, without that fixed and I don't see one coming there is no way to be legitimate late game save in lined up IPS situations. I am looking now at a Great Crossbow 7 Ranger 13 Rogue deepwood sniper who would fire around 106 bolts in 120 seconds. each bolt having 7d6+2d8+1d8= potential within 30 feet of 10-80 per sneak shot so 1060-8480 dmg over 120 seconds which is... okay. then consider crit potential of 14-20 and x3/4? which I don't feel like doing the math for. and unlike twf where sneak attac only goes off every other hit unless sneaking, it goes off every time. stil a repeater's 200 bolts would be like 12000 max damage over 120 seconds but only 17-20 crit x3 so I am not sure if those crits from the great cross could make up the difference but does anyone know if sneak attack goes off on every repeater bolt?
plus uncanny dodge +CE and UMD allows the primary functions of the above build to happen.Last edited by Kalikorz; 04-21-2010 at 02:59 PM.
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04-21-2010, 03:22 PM #9Community Member
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Sorry, what's this? I thought SA went off every attack, as long as you don't have agro? Originally Posted by Kalikorz
Server: Thelanis
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Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)
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04-21-2010, 03:29 PM #10Community Member
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It does. Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown
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04-21-2010, 04:13 PM #11
This build is not very good, it has some potential mind you, but you are making some faulty assumptions because you lack DDO experience (nothing wrong with that).
1. Your AC will not be good. I have had level 4 characters with 40 AC. High and tanks usually start at 60AC and try for numbers more like 80. A bard just isn't suited to attaining a high AC at any level. They can get decent in mid game, but it just doesn't play to their strengths. Shields cause them spell failure, as does more than light armor, they don't ususaly invest heavily in dex, they don't have any AC class abilities other than one song etc... A bards best defense is not to get attacked in the first place.
2. Using combat expertise on a caster just doesn't work. There is a delay in turning it on in which you are just standing around, and it goes off with any scroll, spell, wand etc... Just not workable.
3. The lack of rate of fire is not due to server lag. Server lag may show you less animations but you still fire the normal number of bolts. Often you can kill things without seeing the bolts that killed them. (I have a bard who uses heavy repeaters). What can happen is you can miss targets moving laterally with respect to you. Its best to line them up so they are coming straight on.
4. Repeater DPS is pretty bad when you compare it to other damage modalities. Compared to simple sword and shield, no feats, its just fine. Compared to bow without arcane archer, its pretty decent. Compared to true DPS characters, its not good. Why? because there are few ways to add damage. You can't add strength, power attack, smites, extra weapon effects and so on. I think its a great weapon for a character that doesn't want to invest a lot but wants a little extra oomph. What they are nice for is delivering status effects like curse, spell breaking, sunder etc... And for fighting off the trash or creatures you just don't want to get near, they are handy.
5. While the sorc level looks good on the SP front it does slow down the progression of your primary character direction. Its a decent choice on a build like this if not a good one.
6. Grab haggle if you can and do stealth at half ranks. Stealth is only occasional useful as a bard, invisibility is often better for fascinating. Haggle is great to have and this is exactly the kind of build to stick it on.
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04-21-2010, 05:25 PM #12Build Constructionist
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Bear in mind Bow STR and Manyshot don't work with crossbows, IIRC, so that's two of your three free archery feats wasted. Unless you really really want to be a DWS (or need the skill points), you might as well go fighter for the feats. Originally Posted by Kalikorz
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04-21-2010, 06:23 PM #13Community Member
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Correct. Bow strength does not add to any kind of repeater or cross bow. Sneak attack damage is added assuming you are within 30 game feet of the monster and don't have agro. Unless you're inducing a sneak attack condition such as using Glitterdust or a Radiance II or Deception weapon. Originally Posted by unbongwah
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04-21-2010, 10:46 PM #14Community Member
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Clarification needed
Originally Posted by Impatiens
Yall might know more than me but when out of stealth and flanking I see two lines of numbers as I attack the first one has the sneak and the second didn't continuously. (not a one time occurance or rare) watch your numbers maybe someone can tell me why every other line has low damage numbers on it.
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04-21-2010, 10:50 PM #15Community Member
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Thanks
Thanks for all the input I will consider and modify this until I'm happy with it before wasting my time on it.
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