new character build challenge

[DragonDrago77]

What's the prize for this challenge?

[jaxxor20xx]

What's the prize for this challenge?

Bragging rights I believe...

[AylinIsAwesome]

That my point. If you want to make it a multiclass that is the fair way, you split it equal between the classes. Not a touch of this or that but equal. Remember these are suppossed to be big life choices and if you spend your life training as a doctor in the war where you also a soldier (fighter cleric) you are not going to stop doing those things to dedicate your life to picking locks and being a thief for a few years and then combine all three. Remember this started as an RPG and the rules where made to make it have some character to your builds. It not all about how fast you can run an adventure or how much damage per second you do. The game always had alot of numbers but they where part of the experience and not the only thing.

So a med student (let's call him a Cleric) who ends up going to and he fights as a soldier (let's call this Fighter) would train equally in both, throughout his life? Or would he take the training to be a soldier (Fighter levels), and then when the war is over go back to medicine (Cleric)?

Or is that concept too difficult to understand? How 'bout picking locks. Many builds just train it at first level (with 1-4 skill points), then never train it ever again. A lot of people (myself included) learned how to pick simple locks when we were younger, and could do that in a pinch, but have no intention of learning how to pick new and more complex locks as age. Logic is a *****, eh?

And finally... How the hell do you RP with just yourself??? The point of Role Playing is to, you know, interact with others.

If you don't like my challenge fine don't do it if it to hard for you. Like I said before go make your character with all the gear from your current one and give him tomes and everythig adn go on feeling good about leveling to twenty without ever having a hard time. It easy to do things when you have everything. Just like in life it easy to build a nice house if you got millions but try to earn your way to that same place takes fortitude and guts but when you get there you feel a true sense of accomplishment.

Others have already stated that the game is much easier now than it used to be. If you can't understand that, then really there is no continue this.

[Lehrman]

So this contest is to see who can make a class other than barbarian and fighter?

I would recommend setting up the character on a new server to ensure that you will have a 28 point build, no drow (basically a 32 pt) and no FvS. This puts players on an equalish footing with someone just starting out.

[AylinIsAwesome]

So this contest is to see who can make a class other than barbarian and fighter?

I would recommend setting up the character on a new server to ensure that you will have a 28 point build, no drow (basically a 32 pt) and no FvS. This puts players on an equalish footing with someone just starting out.

If a player purchased any of those things from the store, then they have them on all servers regardless.

[Uska]

Not really a fair challenge in to be able to take a non 32pt build a person who has them would have to take a preset build and they are really gimped and non optimal

[Aschbart]

The rules to make this competition 'fair' to new players is bogus. New players don't know which quests are easiest to run and which ones are (near) impossible to complete on solo. They don't know which quests to farm for unique drops that help their character and which to skip because they're not worth it. They don't know what skills or feats will be needed in high levels and which don't.

All of this can be learned from intensive internet study on forums, ddowiki, etc.. But the complexity of the information available requires years to pick up, and then you still wouldn't have the first hand experience of how a certain character type plays, and how the quests are played.

It's also untrue to state that you want to reciprocate the original difficulty of the game. DDO initially was a group game. And while some twinked out characters might have been able to solo much of the content, they only could do so building on their experience and lots of gear from their capped mains. Not to mention multiclassing. Multiclassing always was a part of D&D, although before 3.0, the level split was forced on any races but humans. Then again, there wasn't really a split, as you could get 20 fighter 20 / wizard 20 /rogue 20 half elves with enough persistence.

Gimping your toons way beyond the original restrictions has nothing to do with any of the claims being made, it is just an arbitrary set of rules that you might like or not. I have no doubt that experienced players can pull that off, with enough time on their hands. But I maintain that a new player will take months to level to 20 even if playing 24/7 by these same rules. And that's got little to do with player skills, mainly with experience.

[hockeyrama]

The rules to make this competition 'fair' to new players is bogus. New players don't know which quests are easiest to run and which ones are (near) impossible to complete on solo. They don't know which quests to farm for unique drops that help their character and which to skip because they're not worth it. They don't know what skills or feats will be needed in high levels and which don't.

All of this can be learned from intensive internet study on forums, ddowiki, etc.. But the complexity of the information available requires years to pick up, and then you still wouldn't have the first hand experience of how a certain character type plays, and how the quests are played.

It's also untrue to state that you want to reciprocate the original difficulty of the game. DDO initially was a group game. And while some twinked out characters might have been able to solo much of the content, they only could do so building on their experience and lots of gear from their capped mains. Not to mention multiclassing. Multiclassing always was a part of D&D, although before 3.0, the level split was forced on any races but humans. Then again, there wasn't really a split, as you could get 20 fighter 20 / wizard 20 /rogue 20 half elves with enough persistence.

Gimping your toons way beyond the original restrictions has nothing to do with any of the claims being made, it is just an arbitrary set of rules that you might like or not. I have no doubt that experienced players can pull that off, with enough time on their hands. But I maintain that a new player will take months to level to 20 even if playing 24/7 by these same rules. And that's got little to do with player skills, mainly with experience.

First, it a challenge and challenges have rules and they not always easy, hence the trem challenge.
Second, I did start my character on a server I have nothing unocked except the monk as I wanted to try that class out after seeing many people comment about how it soo gimped.
Third, I have only played since January and in the few months here I learned a bit here and there. However, in the few days with this character I have learned more about a bunch of quests then I ever did in groups. WHen I was in groups the quests already had someone who knew everything (almost every time). Therefore, I just ran along with the group and as a fighter swung my wepon and as a rogue, did the traps (they were even nice enough to point out where the traps were located). I basically had very little to figure out. So with this character I am learning at an accelerated rate. Yes I will run into quests i will have to not finish as mentioned you will need two players. However, there are amny more quests. At the end I will know in detail, most of the quests in the game, and have figured out how to survive many of theml i will know how to better play my character and will have felt a real accomplishment that I have not felt as much iin the first few months where I doing my role but following along. After this i will be able to be a leader and in less time then if I just ran around with grooups.


Also, as mentioned earlier, somone said it boring to play solo. I disagree, I find it more interesting and I have to think more then in group. Also, running solo has a different feel, it more like any minute things could go south and you have to be ready. It will take awhile. To help this I run norm, hard then elite on every quest (so far), this maximizes my time and xp. If I run into one that I am getting crushed (has not happened yet, thankfully) on norm then i will probably leave that one for a bit and then come back to it. I never said you have to do every quest. Just said solo to level 20 with a single class with gear and build restrictions.

Also, FVS is allowed as I said any class can be played and any race (later we eliminated drow as it the same as 32 pt build). If you want a FVS go ahead it is a valid class and it has stengths and weakness like every other pure class. Example: reflex save not as high as rogue, or monk, so will have some trouble with alot of the trap sections. Of course, the FVS if setup right might be able to buff or later, heal there way out of the problem but that the point. Every class has a way to be played.

Another point never said you could not play a fighter or barbarian, just said any 1 class.

It funny when I made this thread I thought some people would ignore it, and a few might say, hey, I liike the challenge going to see if I could do that.

Instead peple have picked it apart.

WHy the negativity, you don't like the challenge, if you think it too hard, boring or not worth your time, fine, then keep playing how you do now. I know it is fun having great gear on every toon and I admit some of the quests later have some great stuff and if you maxed you feel safer or whatever, fine, never said don't play like that. I just offering a choice.

This all came about after my rogue got to level 11 and could no longer group with anyone as there was no F2P groups (or rarely any) that were around to play. At that level there are only a few f2p quests and most just run them fast for favor. I started making characters on other servers and kept going back to that character and tried to solo some things but it is a mech rogue setup to help get traps and provide some backstab attacks. SO after having trouble soloing and seeing that a f2p player around that level will need to i came up with the idea of taking a solo to level 20. Then i said if going to spend that kinda time how coudl i make it a real challenge. So i did. (note I also am resetting enhancements, and changing that rogue to give more DPS so she have a better chance to solo until I get a few packs form the favor I gaining with all my toons.)

Do the challenge or don't. I am going to follow it as stated. Have cleared all of korthos on elite and most of harbor, and soon market, and harbor will be basically finished, then going to start the house quests. I think it will be easy to get most quests but will have trouble with ceratin ones. One i am really worried about is where you ahve to defend the fort as will be hard to block the front entrance and cover off the side without allowing any enemies inside. Will see if I can find a way to us expedious to help, but at this time think that going to be one I have to leave. I will update you here as I go along. Would also like others who are trying to post your characters here and give some updates.

Yes, the only reward is bragging rights and also the sense of accomplishment of completing a challenge.

[Uska]

First, it a challenge and challenges have rules and they not always easy, hence the trem challenge.
Second, I did start my character on a server I have nothing unocked except the monk as I wanted to try that class out after seeing many people comment about how it soo gimped.
Third, I have only played since January and in the few months here I learned a bit here and there. However, in the few days with this character I have learned more about a bunch of quests then I ever did in groups. WHen I was in groups the quests already had someone who knew everything (almost every time). Therefore, I just ran along with the group and as a fighter swung my wepon and as a rogue, did the traps (they were even nice enough to point out where the traps were located). I basically had very little to figure out. So with this character I am learning at an accelerated rate. Yes I will run into quests i will have to not finish as mentioned you will need two players. However, there are amny more quests. At the end I will know in detail, most of the quests in the game, and have figured out how to survive many of theml i will know how to better play my character and will have felt a real accomplishment that I have not felt as much iin the first few months where I doing my role but following along. After this i will be able to be a leader and in less time then if I just ran around with grooups.


Also, as mentioned earlier, somone said it boring to play solo. I disagree, I find it more interesting and I have to think more then in group. Also, running solo has a different feel, it more like any minute things could go south and you have to be ready. It will take awhile. To help this I run norm, hard then elite on every quest (so far), this maximizes my time and xp. If I run into one that I am getting crushed (has not happened yet, thankfully) on norm then i will probably leave that one for a bit and then come back to it. I never said you have to do every quest. Just said solo to level 20 with a single class with gear and build restrictions.

Also, FVS is allowed as I said any class can be played and any race (later we eliminated drow as it the same as 32 pt build). If you want a FVS go ahead it is a valid class and it has stengths and weakness like every other pure class. Example: reflex save not as high as rogue, or monk, so will have some trouble with alot of the trap sections. Of course, the FVS if setup right might be able to buff or later, heal there way out of the problem but that the point. Every class has a way to be played.

Another point never said you could not play a fighter or barbarian, just said any 1 class.

It funny when I made this thread I thought some people would ignore it, and a few might say, hey, I liike the challenge going to see if I could do that.

Instead peple have picked it apart.

WHy the negativity, you don't like the challenge, if you think it too hard, boring or not worth your time, fine, then keep playing how you do now. I know it is fun having great gear on every toon and I admit some of the quests later have some great stuff and if you maxed you feel safer or whatever, fine, never said don't play like that. I just offering a choice.

This all came about after my rogue got to level 11 and could no longer group with anyone as there was no F2P groups (or rarely any) that were around to play. At that level there are only a few f2p quests and most just run them fast for favor. I started making characters on other servers and kept going back to that character and tried to solo some things but it is a mech rogue setup to help get traps and provide some backstab attacks. SO after having trouble soloing and seeing that a f2p player around that level will need to i came up with the idea of taking a solo to level 20. Then i said if going to spend that kinda time how coudl i make it a real challenge. So i did. (note I also am resetting enhancements, and changing that rogue to give more DPS so she have a better chance to solo until I get a few packs form the favor I gaining with all my toons.)

Do the challenge or don't. I am going to follow it as stated. Have cleared all of korthos on elite and most of harbor, and soon market, and harbor will be basically finished, then going to start the house quests. I think it will be easy to get most quests but will have trouble with ceratin ones. One i am really worried about is where you ahve to defend the fort as will be hard to block the front entrance and cover off the side without allowing any enemies inside. Will see if I can find a way to us expedious to help, but at this time think that going to be one I have to leave. I will update you here as I go along. Would also like others who are trying to post your characters here and give some updates.

Yes, the only reward is bragging rights and also the sense of accomplishment of completing a challenge.

No I said it was unfair if you want people to not use 32pt builds they would have to take preset builds and unless you made that a restriction for all then its unfair I have 32pt builds on all servers so unless I gimp myself(28pt not gimp) by taking a preset build then I can only use 32pts or drow.

[midevillw]

iv been reading this and it kinda sounds like it might be fun. if u read the first page he came out and said ok to multiclassing.... dnt know if all ur griping has changed his mind or not. personlay i will be taking this challange but with a few tweaks of my own.

1. if i cannot trade items, ot things from my other chrs, then i see no reason we cannot use the ah. all the coin u spend will have to come from this toon anyway.

2. i will only use a race or chr aval to a f2p player starting out, no drow, no warforged, fvs, or monk.

3. i will not limit myself by not multiclasssing.

4. i will only use a 28 point build.

5. if i can build the plat using only this toon to be able to buy a tome in the AH then i will use it. if not then i will not be able to get one.

[Duncani_Daho]

Point #1:

It is pointless to try to create balance between new and experienced players. If you KNOW the quests, you'll have a huge advantage over a new player who may be stepping into that level 7 quest for the first time.

Point #2:

Are you allowing easy explorer area xp? Without restriction, this means I can bring my character into the lowest possible risk area, like in Searing Heights or Three Barrel Cove, kill the same assortment of mobs, exit the instance, rinse and repeat. No traps out there, so it's often the first place to go when you don't have a rogue and want easy xp. I suppose few who wanted challenge would exploit this method, but just be aware of it.


Point #3:

Certain quests due to dungeon design require 2-4 people (requiring splitting the party) so are those quests just to be skipped? Good luck getting through Delera's then, to mention only one high xp series.

I'm open to challenge, but I'm not sure you've thought everything through. Anyway, good luck.

[hockeyrama]

1: it for a newer character to try to compete. Yes it an advantage to the veteran or experienced player as he knows the quests. However, if a newer player does a quest on normal and works hard figuring it out they will know it as well on the harder settings so it does balance a bit. Also, it about trying to making it fair, there is no way to make it completely level but a bit more level then a regular situation where a new player starts with basic character and a veteran player starts with one full of tomes and great gear. In that case it not even close to fair, so just trying to make it closer to fair.

2. There are no exceptions listed as to how you want to get to your level 20 character so yea, explorer areas count and if somoen wants to run them forever to get the bonus (which as far as I am aware (never tried to see) there is a limit to waht you can get for xp in an area). Truth is I never go all the way to 750 in korthos and never max any explorer area but would not limit people on how to get to level 20.

3. Again not limiting how to get to level 20. So as a solo build there are a few quests you just can't do. If you need more then one person to stand on different stones then you can't do it. That's simple. If it one of those things where you might not be able to do solo (as it hard to find a way) then you should try to get it done. You may need to leave a mission for a few levels and come back but if you can solo anyway at all those are the ones you want. I never said it going to be easy. I know some characters (not the monk i am making) that could solo many of the ones that people say you can't solo so everyone will have to figure out how to do it.


Note: First it a challenge. I made the rules I am using and hope others do as well. I like one of the responses as he disagreed with the rules but tried to stick as close as he could do the basic things I am looking for and said he will try it. That way better then saying , blah, blah,.... unfair,.... He looked at it and did it differently.


Note: I did say if people want to multiclass they could just they should know they are giving themselves a bit of an advantage unless they try to split xp equally (10/10 or 6/7/7). I also said at the beginning if you want to cahange a rule we could discuss it and if you are dead set on multiclassing then go ahead. It gives you an advantage over a pure class but then again at least you trying the challenge (with a slight modification). However, i personally will be doing the challenge as stated and if otehrs want to do it that way I encourage them.

Update: biggest challenge so far: I have done alot of harbor and market quests and since I have done most before was not surprised alot. However, one surprise I did have was when on butchers path on elite, i ran into the warlock cyressy who rarely shows. In the groups we take him out pretty quick so i never noticed he has a CR of 11 (at least that was the one when i fought him). the elite setting ranks it as a level 4 dungeon so was surprised at how powerful his hold monster spell and fireballs are. I beat him but had to leave the room after getting almost killed in a few seconds ( he held me then fireballed and as soon as held wore I off I ran), and so I left fast and came back a little more prepared the second time (used monk wind giving 20% conceal, had a few item buffs (aid, and such), switched to fire res robe (and takes off 3 damage but better then nothing) and meditated right before fight to use monk abilities). I beat him but even then it was challenging. Can't wait to see what else is way different solo then in parties.

Please feel free to update here your characters if you doing the challenge.

Biggest disappointment so far: I just tried my first ever pvp battle and man I was wiped. He had some clicky on expedious and a 2hd sword so before i even started a swing he was crushing me. Will have to learn how to do those better later. It hard as I had a hard time picking him up before he was htiing me and if he going to get teh jump on me my chances are not good.

If you want to come say high my character is lightus on orien and I am almost level 5.

[hockeyrama]

update:
level 6 and running through catacombs.
I bought a few items form vendors as I said I would but actually not alot. I have had some nice drops and can actually self buff fairly well:

http://my.ddo.com/hockeyrama/wp-cont...monk/monk3.jpg
Here is an example of me buffing from gear that recharges at rest (no potions, wands or scrolls all from gear without needing to go to AH or have it sent from another character).
IMO not bad buffing ability. Would be nice of course to go and buy some great handwraps as still only using regular +1 and cannot get a drop for any special handwraps.

Would love to see others who said they going to try it to post their updates.

[Jay203]

challenging people to make builds and ex'ing out multiclassing is kind of contradictory
at least to me it is

[hockeyrama]

challenging people to make builds and ex'ing out multiclassing is kind of contradictory
at least to me it is

as mentioned earlier I did say near the begining that if people wanted then they could multiclass. I recommended they do it by the old way where you had to split the classes evenly. The idea was originally to do it as one class as that is why it is a challenge. The game is very easy to take a character to level 20 with more then one class. However, to do it with one class makes it a challenge as every class has strengths and weaknesses. Challenges are not supposed to be easy.

I also mentioned not everyone has to do it. Later I even said that I liked how one person is going to do the challenge with a few modification that he mentions and so at least we know how he is doing it.

I will follow the original rules and hope otehrs would like the challenge as well. If they try it the way I mentioned they will feel the sense of accomplishment you get from doing something difficult and overcoming the difficulties.

Not everyone likes a challenge so not everyone should try it.