new character build challenge

[jaxxor20xx]

Also, of note I am an old pen and paper player. So the origins of DnD that I was brought up with you had severe penalties and restrictions on multi-classing and in the belief in how DnD is based I feel it better to see how a pure class plays out where you have to figure out how to survive your weaknesses and use your strengths. Heck, even neverwinter nights and all the other dnd based games had limits restricting multiclassing and yet here you can take 3 for free and all nowhere near the same level. If you muli-classed originally you had to split it equally between classes. So I was thinking the purest way to prove your ability is to prove you can do it on a pure class, and without alot of extras (tomes, AH, 32 pt build).

Adding my two copper to this whole pure vs. multi-class argument.

Reading the quote above, I have to ask, why don't we compromise? To satisfy the multi-classers. Allow only a 10/10 multi-class split? While I personally don't plan to multi-class a character, as I prefer the pure class path as well, it should be enough to settle on both sides and play by old DnD rules. What do you think?

------------------------------------

You're drunken Dwarf friend,
Grumar

[hockeyrama]

Adding my two copper to this whole pure vs. multi-class argument.

Reading the quote above, I have to ask, why don't we compromise? To satisfy the multi-classers. Allow only a 10/10 multi-class split? While I personally don't plan to multi-class a character, as I prefer the pure class path as well, it should be enough to settle on both sides and play by old DnD rules. What do you think?

------------------------------------

You're drunken Dwarf friend,
Grumar

That would be fine as I see most the builds are 2/18, or 2/6/12 which would not work as it not balancing. The idea originally is that one class may not exactly suit your style of play so you could multi but it had to be a perfect split for xp basis (there was some rules around for human characters that coudl dual but they not have benefits of both class so a bit of a null point). SO i would say if you want to split then go 10/10. I would even say a 6/7/7 would work as it is still splitting equally. This taking a splash of a character is just too easy to solve a problem. Example take 2 rogue levels get evasion and trap ability (with gear could be good enough all the way through even with only a few skill points) and take that with a character that can cast and heal like a wf sorc and blam you got it all. Heal, cast, rogue skills and not the same limitations as someone who goes pure.

Also if you r 32pt wf sorc is soo great then why would a 28 build not be good as well. Are you soo rigid that you cannot find a way to adjust the build. Does every build have to be exactly the way you see it and are you not good enough to make a change and it still be great. 4 points on one skill (= +2 bonus) or 2 points on a higher skill (=+1 bonus). Can you honestly say that to lower to that level would mean you could not make the character work, is their no flexibility to your builds. I admit i do not see alot of flexibility in many builds. They all have +3 tomes, + high items, .... and they talking about a build they have not even made yet.

A build should be the build and not the equipment added. +3 tomes should not apply on a new build, just like exactly what armor and weapons you will have. You can pick your specialty (khopesh, long sword, dwarven axe) but you should not be able to plan exactly what equipment you will have. This shows that the game can easily be manipulated and this should not be the case. You should not know for certain that you will have exactly this or that item except for a few that are specific end reward items and yet people are making builder plans saying that will only work if you take a +3 tome by level ... and make sure you use ... or else it a gimped character. I guess it just me but the whole point of having random drops is that you have to adjust to what you get. You get great armor, then your fighter can be a bit more defensive while he waiting on a great weapon and so on. It just seems weird when everyone knows exactly what will be on the character. This means they getting the gear form shared acount or sent to that character form another account. Or that they have such control over the AH or some other means to guarantee they will get a certain piece of equipment.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Adding my two copper to this whole pure vs. multi-class argument.

Reading the quote above, I have to ask, why don't we compromise? To satisfy the multi-classers. Allow only a 10/10 multi-class split? While I personally don't plan to multi-class a character, as I prefer the pure class path as well, it should be enough to settle on both sides and play by old DnD rules. What do you think?

------------------------------------

You're drunken Dwarf friend,
Grumar

Uh...no. A 10/10 split in every instance is stupid.

[Chillie]

Again you joined in oct 09.What ddo is now is not a challenge. Soloing used to require the best gear you could get per lvl, skill, and a build set to solo. Now anyone can solo most content. It is trivial to cap a toon these days. You have the store, xp pots, and difficulty scaling. I have capped several 32 point builds before EU was released. I ran them continually as 28 point untill greater rez was released. I earned my favor. I didnt purchase 28 point builds off the store. Noone is saying you cant run or cap a 28 pt build. But you didnt solo your 28 pt wf fighter to cap. And just because you havent rolled an FVS doesnt mean alot of us dont use the class. I doubt you could roll that same wf fighter and solo him to cap without twink gear.

As for finding a door on a fighter its called detect secret door clickies you can regularly find in quest drops. But forcing people to run a pure class is too restrictive. If you really want that then I welcome you to go play another mmo. Personally I like a 18wis/2 rogue WF in 32pt. Its one of the best solo builds in the game. So is the tukaw style build.

haha why in the world is everyone making such a BIG deal out of this, I feel like I'm in congress arguing for a bill that needs to me pasted here. It's plane and simple just take the challenge and do it how hard it is it for you to do it? DO all of you always like to post on every comment everyone makes to just test the logic in it?. So what if i commented on what i play for as a Character, I am doing it none the less I made a NEW toon after seeing this challenge on a different server so i wouldn't be interfering with the 32pt build and Vet status. Just go do it what are you afraid of getting your buts handed to ya from getting caught in a trap lol. Lets have fun with the game instead of tossing out logical arguments from each one that try's to explain them selve as to why it's a good idea or bad one. !!Game on good people!!

Oh and yes it does say when i joined on this forum, however it does not say when i actually started playing the game DDOU next time pay a bit more attention in what i said lol ok. Cheers! or will that also be called out.

[epochofcrepuscule]

A wf sorc or wizard.

Any kind of FVS.


There really is no challenge unless you restrict spellcasters.....

Which would all in all, make the challenge more ridiculous then it already is.

[Temko]

i'd love to join in on this but i feel multiclassing is a core part of the DDO experience.

i dont have 32 point builds, nor do i have anything TR'd but i feel multiclassing is important.
Multiclassing to overcome weaknesses stems from my time as PnP. i always went for the most interesting and overpowered builds i could think off. ran out with a Shadowdancer one group and then popped a Yuan-ti cleric the next.
multi classing, strange combinations, and exotic builds is what DnD is about... and of course getting drunk with friends wile doing dwarven singing puzzles.

[hockeyrama]

i'd love to join in on this but i feel multiclassing is a core part of the DDO experience.

i dont have 32 point builds, nor do i have anything TR'd but i feel multiclassing is important.
Multiclassing to overcome weaknesses stems from my time as PnP. i always went for the most interesting and overpowered builds i could think off. ran out with a Shadowdancer one group and then popped a Yuan-ti cleric the next.
multi classing, strange combinations, and exotic builds is what DnD is about... and of course getting drunk with friends wile doing dwarven singing puzzles.

I agree that strange builds and multiclassing are part of the pen and paper but it had rules and restrictions. YOu had to split the xp between the classes equally so 10/10 or 7/7/6 would be the way it would work here.

Here they took alot of rules and just said hey let's give em everything. You want 3 classes then fine. However, unlike neverwinter and other pc games they took out restrictions on the classes so you could take as much or as little of each class as possible. Easier to code but a huge player as compared to the way it should be. If I am not mistaken even 3.5 rules has way more restrictions then are given here.

[hockeyrama]

Uh...no. A 10/10 split in every instance is stupid.

That my point. If you want to make it a multiclass that is the fair way, you split it equal between the classes. Not a touch of this or that but equal. Remember these are suppossed to be big life choices and if you spend your life training as a doctor in the war where you also a soldier (fighter cleric) you are not going to stop doing those things to dedicate your life to picking locks and being a thief for a few years and then combine all three. Remember this started as an RPG and the rules where made to make it have some character to your builds. It not all about how fast you can run an adventure or how much damage per second you do. The game always had alot of numbers but they where part of the experience and not the only thing.

If you don't like my challenge fine don't do it if it to hard for you. Like I said before go make your character with all the gear from your current one and give him tomes and everythig adn go on feeling good about leveling to twenty without ever having a hard time. It easy to do things when you have everything. Just like in life it easy to build a nice house if you got millions but try to earn your way to that same place takes fortitude and guts but when you get there you feel a true sense of accomplishment.

[Ivid]

Have to agree with OP - setting out the rules of the challenge, don't like it - no one is forcing you to do it. OP got across to me clear as day - what can someone do with the very basics, 28 point build, single class, no twinkage - solo.

This is a challenge that adds grit to the game. It is far, far easier to solo now than it has ever been.

This harkens back to the days where we had "stingy Dungeon Masters" - where killing the ogre for that +1 Dagger was... special, and finding a potion and a few coins in a barrel was a pleasant surprise.

The single class rule makes any accomplishment a bit more meaningful... and it's not like it is the only character you have to play... why, I've got 36 characters right now... ha. How many are capped? None - got one 28 point WF Wizard build to Level 15, I'd say about 95% solo - started it long before this challenge. He started with no twinkage, but has since acquired considerable twinkage from the AH. He's done very few quests over 12th level - but has made a fortune and capped xp in the Orchard before heading over to Giantshold. Lots of leveling options either way.

Anyways - 1 character doesn't hurt. The only thing that would really make this challenge really tough would be to add Permadeath rules!

[Temko]

yes, it's a shame that they ditches the multiclass rules.

i wish they'd stuck with them.. ie: Halflings get to multiclass wizard (favoured class) without xp penalty, ditch monk? no more advancement? same for paladin.

but, in the game, this is what we have, and wile i agree it's a loss less restrictive, i think we can all agree that being pure is just lame :P

[hockeyrama]

yes, it's a shame that they ditches the multiclass rules.

i wish they'd stuck with them.. ie: Halflings get to multiclass wizard (favoured class) without xp penalty, ditch monk? no more advancement? same for paladin.

but, in the game, this is what we have, and wile i agree it's a loss less restrictive, i think we can all agree that being pure is just lame :P

"lame" or just to many difficulties to overcome for many. I think being pure makes it more of a challenge. Example: with my monk I will be fine for reflex save to run thorugh most traps but when I fail I am going to take a big hit. Also, with no caster ability some mobs will be hard and certain DR is hard to overcome so will have to adjust there as well. Without the ability to buy your way out of it at AH then you really got to think about how to run the character. If you multi then you eliminate some of the challenge. It easy, a paldin, ranger, with a bit of rogue, ..... so many combinations all can cast, fight and rogue so then where is the challenge. The way I propose is not lame but difficult and that is the essence of the word challenge.

[Chillie]

yes, it's a shame that they ditches the multiclass rules.

i wish they'd stuck with them.. ie: Halflings get to multiclass wizard (favoured class) without xp penalty, ditch monk? no more advancement? same for paladin.

but, in the game, this is what we have, and wile i agree it's a loss less restrictive, i think we can all agree that being pure is just lame :P

Lame! there isn't nothing lame about it, it's only lame for the people that cannot accept to give it up to this challenge that wants it easy for them to get what they want when they want it. This by all means defeats the entire purpose of the challenge. As stated you do not have to do it it's your choice. Love being a pure class it's wonderful but being multi-class is, is the same as multi-tasking it's not in me to do. Yes multi-classing is a convenience it has been around for a long time same as going to school and learning many other traits but in the end but don't quot me on this but when we get that job 95% of the time it doesn't involve other skills we can use that we can do right. Well not for me it didn't and same with most everyone i was around at the time. We have incorporated multi-tasking into our lives same as D&D has done with multi-classing.

[Wyrmnax]

No FvS acess makes WF Sorc the obvious choice.

[Tricks74]

Well here are my two coppers....

The original post was to challenge you. More so your ability to play a character solo instead of your ability to use gear from other characters, purchase great gear from the AH, or to look up a build on the forums and play it to lvl 20. I like the spirit of the original post. No 32 point (which would eliminate drow), No tomes, no transferring gear, etc. What I didn't like was that the post once again showed the ability of people to tear apart someone's post or contest.

To tell him his contest is stupid, bogus, or too hard because he will not allow you to use the 32 point builds you earned?
It's his contest. If he wants everyone to be Elf warriors that can wear no armor, he can, it was his challenge to those who wanted to accept the challenge as stated.

Surely all of the players who have been around since the game came out have suffered through the troubles and trials SHOULD ALSO REACH LVL 20 SOONER. You already know how to do it.

If you don't like the contest, don't enter it. If you want multiclass, tomes, 32 pt builds ... start your own contest and make any rules you want.

I know, I know, I'm going to get the hate talk and negative rep because I've only been a member since blah, blah, blah... Are you "veterans" saying I can play a "gimped character" better than you can? Least that's what I'm hearing. I'd have thought after all these years you would have aquired better playing skills. Maybe you can only play a 32 point build with great gear, money, and tomes from other characters.

[sultanica]

Several quests require 2 or more players to activate switches, etc. (ie. Delera's part 2)
unless your using a hireling...

[sigtrent]

I've seen a lot of folks dream up things like this...

In the end they usually bail before too long, not because it is all that hard but because it tends to be all that boring.

Playing alone, being restricted as to what quests you can do, denied all the interesting items in the game, stuck with one class, not trading with others... its just a dull way to play.

I think if you want this kind of a challenge the permadeath guilds are a better way to go. They set a high standard for themselves but they play as a team and encourage one another and so forth.

Of course if you find it fun and exciting and what not, more power too you but for my money its a joyless way to play the game.

[lord_of_rage]

haha why in the world is everyone making such a BIG deal out of this, I feel like I'm in congress arguing for a bill that needs to me pasted here. It's plane and simple just take the challenge and do it how hard it is it for you to do it? DO all of you always like to post on every comment everyone makes to just test the logic in it?. So what if i commented on what i play for as a Character, I am doing it none the less I made a NEW toon after seeing this challenge on a different server so i wouldn't be interfering with the 32pt build and Vet status. Just go do it what are you afraid of getting your buts handed to ya from getting caught in a trap lol. Lets have fun with the game instead of tossing out logical arguments from each one that try's to explain them selve as to why it's a good idea or bad one. !!Game on good people!!

Oh and yes it does say when i joined on this forum, however it does not say when i actually started playing the game DDOU next time pay a bit more attention in what i said lol ok. Cheers! or will that also be called out.

What I said was I doubt you could take that same 28pt fighter to cap solo ungeared. When I made my comments on your join date there was nothing you posted on how long you have been playing. I have fun with this game as it is. This challenge the way the op who has serious bias against mulitclassing and 32pt builds is not fun. I am all for no gearing out, and no ah. But to say that you cant roll a character that you enjoy playing because it uses a 2 lvl splash is ridiculous. I like multiclassing. Most of my builds are. If I am going to take character to cap especially solo its going to be one I enjoy playing. I can easily run a 28 pt toon. It has nothing to do with being"scared" and everything to do with being able to get the most out of every character I play, and the fact that I earned the favor 2 years ago so I could roll 32pt toons.

A challenge should be fun. A 10/10 split is insane. Some peoples favorite race to play is drow. I know several people who only roll drow. This challenge then becomes not fun. The idea of soloing to cap is a challenge one I might try someday. But not with the very biased restrictions of the op because HE doesnt like the way multiclassing is done or how people plan out characters.

Oh and considering DDOEU has only been released sine sep 09 I doubt you have been playing for the time you claim to. Before then all of us just called it ddo.

[lord_of_rage]

Well here are my two coppers....

The original post was to challenge you. More so your ability to play a character solo instead of your ability to use gear from other characters, purchase great gear from the AH, or to look up a build on the forums and play it to lvl 20. I like the spirit of the original post. No 32 point (which would eliminate drow), No tomes, no transferring gear, etc. What I didn't like was that the post once again showed the ability of people to tear apart someone's post or contest.

To tell him his contest is stupid, bogus, or too hard because he will not allow you to use the 32 point builds you earned?
It's his contest. If he wants everyone to be Elf warriors that can wear no armor, he can, it was his challenge to those who wanted to accept the challenge as stated.

Surely all of the players who have been around since the game came out have suffered through the troubles and trials SHOULD ALSO REACH LVL 20 SOONER. You already know how to do it.

If you don't like the contest, don't enter it. If you want multiclass, tomes, 32 pt builds ... start your own contest and make any rules you want.

I know, I know, I'm going to get the hate talk and negative rep because I've only been a member since blah, blah, blah... Are you "veterans" saying I can play a "gimped character" better than you can? Least that's what I'm hearing. I'd have thought after all these years you would have aquired better playing skills. Maybe you can only play a 32 point build with great gear, money, and tomes from other characters.

Again with the assumptions and accusations that we cant do things without 32pt builds. We can and have. Because up untill a few months ago we had to earn our builds not drop points on the ddo store. Alot of us used to solo pre EU. Soloing since EU is very easy. Its about fun. Its also funny that none of us have said that have posted in this thread have said "gimped". My favorite character for 2 years was my "gimped" 28pt 14 bard/2 ftr warchanter.
I know I havent complained about not being able to use tomes, or transfer gear, or money. I have said that the restrictions arnt fun. Though I enjoy the idea of this competition. I would want to enjoy doing it. That means playing a style of build I enjoy. So while I will do it I ll do it in a way Ill enjoy it.

[Chillie]

Again with the assumptions and accusations that we cant do things without 32pt builds. We can and have. Because up untill a few months ago we had to earn our builds not drop points on the ddo store. Alot of us used to solo pre EU. Soloing since EU is very easy. Its about fun. Its also funny that none of us have said that have posted in this thread have said "gimped". My favorite character for 2 years was my "gimped" 28pt 14 bard/2 ftr warchanter.
I know I havent complained about not being able to use tomes, or transfer gear, or money. I have said that the restrictions arnt fun. Though I enjoy the idea of this competition. I would want to enjoy doing it. That means playing a style of build I enjoy. So while I will do it I ll do it in a way Ill enjoy it.

Then why reply to every ones post since you don't want to do it. If you think it's bad idea, a waste of time, not your thing, or what ever then why reply to the challenge of the one who posted it. Does it matter if i have only been around for the last 6 months give or take when i have been playing longer on DDO game so what it's irrelevant to this post. Haha I am sure i will make friends and fiends alike but that's life when it comes to replying to someones post. I'm not out to bash anyone here just here to say my own opinions.

[Chillie]

Several quests require 2 or more players to activate switches, etc. (ie. Delera's part 2)
unless your using a hireling...

The challenge from what i have understood or what was said doesn't mean you have to play every quest in the game to get to level 20. IF you already know which quests to play that you know you can do with the best outcome of completing it then go for it. If I'm wrong then this reply will get called out as well.