Question about Inspire Competence (When to use)

[Zachski]

I'm doing a Spellsinger (Following the Revised Builds for New Players) and, at level 3, I realized something.

Aside from Inspire Courage I don't know much else to do as far as supporting my members go. (I know to use Fascinate to mass-hypnotize a bunch of mobs, I just haven't run into a situation where that's beneficial yet.)

Basically, I'm asking... what do I do about the Inspire Competence song? When is the best time to use it, and who do I use it on? The rogue when he's about to pick locks? When someone asks for it?

Also, any other support and/or spellsinger tips?

[Shishizaru]

As far as my experience go, Inspire Competence usually only comes out for the Rogue. Aside from that, the song is rather situational. I'm sure there are times where a +2 might be nifty, but more often than not, you'll just save the song usage for Inspire Courage.

I got nothing as far as playing a Spellsinger goes. I've only played a Warchanter, so I just sing, buff and go in swinging. I assume you would sing, then cast whatever CC or healing you can to help out?

[Zachski]

As far as my experience go, Inspire Competence usually only comes out for the Rogue. Aside from that, the song is rather situational. I'm sure there are times where a +2 might be nifty, but more often than not, you'll just save the song usage for Inspire Courage.

I got nothing as far as playing a Spellsinger goes. I've only played a Warchanter, so I just sing, buff and go in swinging. I assume you would sing, then cast whatever CC or healing you can to help out?

Actually, because I'm still early into my Spellsinger career, I buff up, go in with a one-handed weapon (don't have any TWF feats, and don't have Master's Touch for a two-handed weapon) and swing away, while healing. I'm actually the most generalist I can be right now. That'll change next level.

Anyways, I thought it was very situational. Well, I'm sure any Rogues in the party will be happy for it.

[FauxSho]

Inspire Competence only gets very situational use.

If you're grouped with a rogue (or rogue-splash) who can't find the trap box/is worried about blowing the trap box/can't pick a lock, you can use (and will probably be asked for) Inspire Competence.

The most common use you'll find for Inspire Competence is at the Brokers. If you'd like a Heroism/GH/Inspire Competence/MonkBoost to raise your Haggle skill, you can use Inspire Competence on a nearby Bard/Sorc/Wiz/Monk until they reciprocate. Personally, I hit everyone in the Brokers with Inspire Competence and GH just for the fuzzy feelings.

[Shishizaru]

Actually, because I'm still early into my Spellsinger career, I buff up, go in with a one-handed weapon (don't have any TWF feats, and don't have Master's Touch for a two-handed weapon) and swing away, while healing. I'm actually the most generalist I can be right now. That'll change next level.

Anyways, I thought it was very situational. Well, I'm sure any Rogues in the party will be happy for it.

If you're not slinging CC around, you could easily go Sword/Shield for the low levels (your AC might actually help). Just remember to ditch the shield when buffing/healing/etc. Most bards buffing occurs between fights, so it shouldn't be too big an issue (unless I was wrong and you are slinging CC ^^)

I've seen a lot of Rogue's get by just fine w/out the song, but Rogue splashes would definitely benefit. Probably good to throw it on the Rogue for elite just to help make sure they hit the mark. Early on, the only "tough" situations I can think of are one Search DC from Sacrifices (for the spike trap) and the hidden door to the second shrine in Stopping the Sauhagin).

[Zachski]

I only have two CC spells right now: Charm Person and Hypnotize (and the Fascinate Song)

Charm Person tends to confuse the melees (I had one party member swing at one for awhile asking why she couldn't hit it), and Hypnotize/Fascinate lasts for all of half a second because of the melees. Charm Person also has a low success rate on the difficulties it really matters on (although I imagine that, if I had a good enough DC, I could solo Misery's Peak on Elite simply through the sheer power of Charm Person). And yes, I do have Spell Focus: Enchantment as one of my initial feats. (Human Bard)

Not that I'm trying to be harsh on them, they're newbies, too.

I'll start tossing out hypnotizes/fascinates when the going gets REALLY rough, though. Like one time, we were trying to run Gambler's Den on Elite, and the dogs kept destroying us, so I started spamming hypnotize while trying (and failing) to charm some of the humans around.

I've even tried to pre-emptively fascinate, but they end up getting disrupted, too.

It doesn't help that, one time, we went back to Korthos to complete the Elite Quests there (it was a Favour party, hence the rushing), and I Hypnotized this one Sahuagin Adept on Heyton's Rest, and immediately, the melee turned around from attacking the altar and smacked the sahuagin.

Please tell me the melees get smarter about this, too, as they get to a higher level.

[Shishizaru]

I only have two CC spells right now: Charm Person and Hypnotize (and the Fascinate Song)

Charm Person tends to confuse the melees (I had one party member swing at one for awhile asking why she couldn't hit it), and Hypnotize/Fascinate lasts for all of half a second because of the melees. Charm Person also has a low success rate on the difficulties it really matters on (although I imagine that, if I had a good enough DC, I could solo Misery's Peak on Elite simply through the sheer power of Charm Person). And yes, I do have Spell Focus: Enchantment as one of my initial feats. (Human Bard)

Not that I'm trying to be harsh on them, they're newbies, too.

I'll start tossing out hypnotizes/fascinates when the going gets REALLY rough, though. Like one time, we were trying to run Gambler's Den on Elite, and the dogs kept destroying us, so I started spamming hypnotize while trying (and failing) to charm some of the humans around.

I've even tried to pre-emptively fascinate, but they end up getting disrupted, too.

It doesn't help that, one time, we went back to Korthos to complete the Elite Quests there (it was a Favour party, hence the rushing), and I Hypnotized this one Sahuagin Adept on Heyton's Rest, and immediately, the melee turned around from attacking the altar and smacked the sahuagin.

Please tell me the melees get smarter about this, too, as they get to a higher level.

I remember reading someone's post about a level 20 who had finally worked up the courage to ask what the "pink party hat" was. :P

If you're going to Fascinate, be sure to talk it over with your group. Otherwise, don't expect it to actually be effective (in addition to throwing you in harms way in attempts to help the group). I generally don't throw CC if the melee's are chewing through mobs no problem (as they should be if it's a over-leveled favor run). But if it's elite, things are hitting hard, and the group is responsive, communicate and give it a whirl. Save the cleric some SP (and sanity). The same goes for Hypno, although that can be cast from range and doesn't cost you a song.

Sometimes you'll wonder if melee's only go for the mobs with icons over their heads (like it means "target this mob" instead of "this mob is no longer a threat."). It should get better as you get to higher levels, but you'll still meet the occasional bad egg. For example, the melee that enjoys telling you not to Charm, not to CC and to "haste us" because that's all they care about (they'll run away from your songs too).

[Zachski]

I remember reading someone's post about a level 20 who had finally worked up the courage to ask what the "pink party hat" was. :P

If you're going to Fascinate, be sure to talk it over with your group. Otherwise, don't expect it to actually be effective (in addition to throwing you in harms way in attempts to help the group). I generally don't throw CC if the melee's are chewing through mobs no problem. But if it's elite, things are hitting hard, and the group is responsive, communicate and give it a whirl. Save the cleric some SP (and sanity). The same goes for Hypno, although that can be cast from range and doesn't cost you a song.

I actually heavily edited my post earlier, but this post still bears replying to.

I actually do talk it over. The problem is, by the time I finish explaining what I'm going to do, they're already on their way ahead.

I hate being mic-shy. And it doesn't help that I'm sick right now.

Oh, and the Cleric in the party was level 1, created specifically for that party, lol. It was a fun party, I have to say. I don't mean to demean them at all, they were great. If I sound frustrated, I'm not, I'm just explaining my situation. The melee in the party was fun, there was a wizard who helped a lot (even though he kept casting Mage Armor on everyone, including the Fighter). I actually healed a lot, and my own healing skills (the manual skills, not the actual character's skills) improved immensely, even with a Cleric in the party.

[Quikster]

Use inspire competence when someone asks for it usually.

Mostly for rogues, or sometimes when someones intimidating or maybe umding a weapon or something.

[Salaman]

Yeah pretty much covered the three uses there. To sum them up in the order I use them in frequency.

1. Buff intimidate on the tank so he can get the boss on him more easily
2. Buff rogue skills to find/disarm traps (if I see he has any difficulties, otherwise I try to spare their fragile egos)
3. Be nice to people at the brokers and give them +2 haggle skill to sell for more. (usually only throw GH on people since I don't want to have to sit around the tavern later to get my song charges back but will bust out the fat lute for friends and guildmates if I see them)

[Kralgnax]

Fwiw, in PUGs (as a rule) only stun-type crowd control (Sounburst, Otto's, Hold person, etc.) is worth much. Fascinate is pretty much useful only with people who play regularly with you (or at least with another bard) - where it can becom almost insanely powerful.

It's important that you pick the right CC technique for the targets - Charm is great on big dumb monsters with rubbishy will saves (non-caster Trolls, Ogres, Giants, for example) - especially if you can get one in the back of the enemy group. OTOH, Soundburst is much more likely to stick to a spellcaster who probably has a weak fortitude save.

Cheers,

[Anderei]

the few quests where an actual intimtank intimitanks inspire competencing him/her is good, since it raises the intimidate skill. And the other even more rare times a rogue is just 4 skill points away of doing that trap.

if you find another hagglebard to go with you, its very very usefull to maxing your haggle, but this is also rather occasional doable.

Otherwise its a pretty useless song (unless theyd make it singable on yourself, but that just isnt the case)

[Garseya]

Yeah pretty much covered the three uses there. To sum them up in the order I use them in frequency.

1. Buff intimidate on the tank so he can get the boss on him more easily
2. Buff rogue skills to find/disarm traps (if I see he has any difficulties, otherwise I try to spare their fragile egos)
3. Be nice to people at the brokers and give them +2 haggle skill to sell for more. (usually only throw GH on people since I don't want to have to sit around the tavern later to get my song charges back but will bust out the fat lute for friends and guildmates if I see them)

Thats the nail on the head...

Anytime you're near an end fight or a tough fight close to a shrine... hand it out to everyone if you have the songs to spare... It's one of the bards many effective tools... I usually tell the party I'll hand out haste when im done with my songs. If the group is to impatient to wait for you to finish singing- that's their bad. Tanks and Rogues especially apreciate the Bard. Fascinate is a great bard song as well. Not only does it help you soloing, it's a great song for parties if they are smart enough to allow you to use it effectivly. *whispers- it will also work through some gates and doors* The higher your level and the more difficult the adventure- the more your music will be appreciated...

[Rydin_Dirtay]

2. Buff rogue skills to find/disarm traps (if I see he has any difficulties, otherwise I try to spare their fragile egos)

Ego? For a decent rogue player ego doesn't factor into it. I think most rogues will appreciate any buff they can get, especially on elite. New rogue players won't have the best +search and +dd items for their level, so in their case the +2 can really help.

When I'm playing one of my Bards, I'll use the Inspire Competence on the Rogue right before a really important trap. On a trap that can be bypassed, maybe not. Depends on how many shrines there are (i.e. depends on how many bard songs I have left).

[Rav'n]

I get 'requests' all the time for Competence... in Raids usually. The guys that are in key spots ask for Competence and Heroics both.

[moops]

I also hit other Bards with it for UMD skills while grouped or raiding--esp if we are the only healers--And if Im shortmanning a quest/raid I hit the other builds if they are UMD builds.

[Aschbart]

You could use Inspire Competence to help with jumping or maybe bluffing, in the right situations. Or help casters concentrate

And you could sing it to a rogue in Stealthy Reposession to improve his move silently skills!

No, really!

[Zachski]

Sneak sneak sneak along Rogue
Don't make a bit of a soouuunnnnd~
Sneak sneak sneak along Rogue
Or else you're in the GROUUUUUUUUNDDDD!!!!

Nah, I think the way it works in DDO is... you sing it once, and it sticks around in their head like those annoying songs, but it actually helps them.

Or maybe it's magic, just a kind of magic that doesn't use Spells.

[sirgog]

Yeah pretty much covered the three uses there. To sum them up in the order I use them in frequency.

1. Buff intimidate on the tank so he can get the boss on him more easily
2. Buff rogue skills to find/disarm traps (if I see he has any difficulties, otherwise I try to spare their fragile egos)
3. Be nice to people at the brokers and give them +2 haggle skill to sell for more. (usually only throw GH on people since I don't want to have to sit around the tavern later to get my song charges back but will bust out the fat lute for friends and guildmates if I see them)

4. If a character has 38 or lower UMD and will be spothealing with scrolls, throw it on them too.