Epic Scrolls/Whisperdoom/Trap the Soul - Stop the Ninja looting madness!

[Bradik_Losdar]

I was originally going to make this another suggestion regarding the Trap the Soul spell and the soul gem drops there from. But I am seeing a disturbing trend that many other folks have commented on as well - the "single drop/open grab" item in the game.

This problem started with the 'new' Whisperdoom quest about two years ago. Random "good" treasure was lying out in the open which only one party member could pick up. This was a huge change from the relatively "chump change" items that would fall out into the open from broken crates, etc - and that the breaker of said boxes would probably pick up right away (not being distracted by combat or anything). This quest caused a huge flap - and was actually shut down a number of times to correct various issues (notably the ease of zerg looting the very 'Ninja' items I am talking about). You would have thought that Turbine would have learned from this fiasco, but apparently time puts blinders on....

Next came the Trap the Soul spell. Now, a wizard/sorceror while in combat (trying to help fellow party members stay alive) would cast this spell (at range usually!), and then move to another target (or spell) until the battle was over. Unfortuantely, he/she would have to remember how many times he/she had cast the spell, how many times it actually took effect, and WHERE after the heat of battle, the monsters had been standing if he wished to collect the soul gems. All this in addition to getting to them BEFORE his fellow party members decided to grab them themselves (granted less of an issue with guild runs, but a HUGE problem with PUGs). By an by, this spell has became a relatively forgotten issue as most casters will not load it anymore for a number of reasons. One: there is a very expensive component requirement (dragonshards) that takes a bit of time to craft, two: it has three 'versions' that each take a different version of said component, three: it requires some prep in order to make sure said components/time are not wasted (casting Enervation on a target several times to lower its save) before actually casting the Trap the Soul spell, and finally, four: AFTER ALL OF THAT - some yahoo comes along and ninja grabs the gem that drops in combat while the caster is getting beat on by some of the bad guys friends. Thankfully there is only one gem really worth anything in the game (currently) - and every caster I know solo the areas that produce them to avoid any ninja grabs (this in a party oriented game...). An easy fix for this would be to have the soul gems just drop into the caster's inventory on success - how hard can that be to code?

And lastly, Epic scrolls. Why, oh, why did the Devs decide on this mechanic? I understand that they want to make them rare (only one person can loot the drop, unlike ordinary treasure bags that drop from monsters), but for heavens sake, an OPEN/NINJA looting system for them. REALLY!?!?! Many folks have suggested fixes for this (see the many/multiple threads on this issue) and I wholeheartedly agree that it does need to be fixed. (My suggestion, if the Devs really want to keep the 'monster drop/scroll' mechanic; make it a lottery. One person who clicks on the scroll will get it - guaranteed. However, who that person is in the party is totally random (and has the option to re-assign). That way everyone has an equal chance at it - regardless of any 'ninja' actions.)

As I said at the beginning, this was going to be primarily a suggestion to fix the mechanics with the Trap the Soul spell (just have the gem drop in the casters inventory automatically), but because of the continuing trend toward selfish/anti-social treaure drops in DDO I felt the need address this 'ninja' system as a whole.

Please Dev team, PLEASE. Stop this. DDO has a fantastic loot sytem in place (no spawn camping/ninja chest looting/etc.), let's not continue down this slippery slope. Fix the current 'ninja' items to be more in line with DDO's famously fair loot mechanic and you'll make a bunch of people very happy!

[Cashiry]

nice post...

[Talon_Oakenleaf]

Or......to be more like real life the Devs should allow you to "finger of death" the dang "ninja" and allow you to go through their "stuff". Cause I am telling ya now. In the "real world" don't get caught stealng me **** cause you ain't gonna like the outcome. LMAO

Seriously though, nice post.

[ryingar]

/signed

Nice post. I've had this problem a number of times in the past. Trap the soul specifically, its a nice spell that kills a mob without it being a death effect... I just keep asking who jacked my gems....cause if i dont get my gem, you get no buffs... and a gt to the foothold after the quest. kind of a sore spot for me. I like ddo because it generally doesn't have any ninja looting.

[geoffhanna]

The Xachosian Eardweller too

I agree with the OP. Ninja looting sux.

[sirgog]

The Xachosian Eardweller too

I agree with the OP. Ninja looting sux.

Yeah, the Eardweller is probably the worst of them all, because it is so extremely valuable (it's bound once looted, but you can 'trade' one you discover soloing to someone before you loot it, and on Khyber they are going for ~3 million PP).

This mechanic needs to change.

[Phidius]

... An easy fix for this would be to have the soul gems just drop into the caster's inventory on success - how hard can that be to code?
...

Like the Ice Game coins did... the only thing I can think of is that the Devs deliberately made the choice to specifically allow ninja looting because they like the drama.

Like you said, I don't load this spell on my wizards unless I need to put the adamantine ritual on the Bloodrage Symbiont (another example for you), as the cost of the spell outweighs the benefits. It's not like they care that a spell is rarely/never used, though...

[Pyromaniac]

We had a party leader yesterday decide that they should get the scroll as they had the star. At least that's what we could figure out from his limited communication skills.

The leader types...
"Scroll is mine", puts VON gloves into party chat.
"I have star, give me scroll"
Party rolls on scroll, he loses. Rest of party leaves group given leader's behavior. Unsure if we'll never group with said leader again. All because of scrolls and greed.

Good thing someone else in group grabbed it off the ground first and put it up for roll fairly.

This doesn't need to happen.

[Vallin]

Bumpity.

/signed.

Please.

Vallin.

[saco]

bump

/signed

[Rakian_Knight]

I always prep Trap the Soul for the simple reasons that it isn't a death effect and it is the only instant kill that is based on a WILL save instead of Fort. So I'm all for this.

Also got to love people who grab my stones then say, "What this I grabbed, Soul Gem of [creature]?"

/signed

[survient]

well that and if u have rogue alts who need the stones for traps

[incineration]

well that and if u have rogue alts who need the stones for traps

ninja looting is still not the way to go, just buy them from the AH or from a sorc/wissy


oh and to the op, /signed

[Cyr]

This is how scroll drops should work...

Scroll drops...

everyone automatically rolls on the scroll and it goes in the winners inventory automatically...

little pop up like for collectibles pops up telling you that you picked up scroll X.

Simple, no need to run over to a mob and pick it up, and more importantly no ninja looting.

They are not bound so if you get a scroll you don't want it's easy enough to say okay I got scroll X roll d100 for it...just like now in completly honest parties.

BTW, I pug a good amount on Sarlona.

I have personally seen scrolls drop dozens of times and when I look back scroll has been ninja'd by someone and no one will admit it. VON 6 is the worst for this. Literally more scrolls are ninja'd in there then dealt with honestly in pugs.

[Bunker]

Yes, it is a shame that players choose to "ninja" loot items in game. Heck, it brings me all the way back to my Diablo II days. Does anyone remember those days, where ALL LOOT was given to whom ever clicked the fastest. Sure, I was good, and learned to live with that system. And then I grew up.

So here we are, in a realm which caters to gamers of all ages. We do our best to play well with others, finding guild members, friends, and pugs who we can get along with. We show those choices first and foremost in our LFM panal. Describing the types of gamers we want to group with. Making sure that the groups we create and join have like minded induviduals in them. We do the most we can with what we have to create the greatest amount of enjoyment in this game.

A small select few items in the game have player control. It use to start with raid loot, where the raid leader had alt he control. And loot rules/systems where created to protect the players. On top of that, the players would all agree on how the loot would be handled. This system was changed, not simply because of the leader control feature, but other reasons aswell. IMHO, the new system works.

So now in the last few weeks, I have seen more and more complaints about the Soul Gems and how they drop. Why all of a sudden are players complaining more? Answer: They are becoming more useful in game, hence more value. However, they have been around for as long as the Shroud has be here. And that is a long time. Epic scrolls, have been around for a while now, and I see plenty of players learning how to work well with others. And there in lies the real problem........

Gaming together as adults. Heck, I won't even go that far. Lets just say, gaming together as human beings. I mean seriously. Are you really asking the Devs to police your choices on ninja looting from fellow party members. Because that is what you are asking. You are asking the Devs to look at a system, that allows us to "choose" to be decent, and instead control whether you have to choice to or not. It is much easier and frankly, more satisfying to be mature, than have big daddy dev come in here and make sure we play well with others.

Don't be mistaken, I don't care for players that choose to ninja up certain items in game, but I would much rather have the choice to group with them based on thiier behavior. I actually like certain aspects like this in game. For if they do not exsist, I would never know which A$$hats to avoid in game. Thus making my experience less enjoyable.

/cheers

-Bunk

[KKDragonLord]

ninja looting is still not the way to go, just buy them from the AH or from a sorc/wissy


oh and to the op, /signed

Hey this is D&D, where is the Roleplay?

Its the Rogue class aka not honest people by definition

Its WAI

[Archer001]

About Trap the Soul, why do the gems drop where the monster died? The gem used to trap creatures is a focus/material component held by the wizard/sorcerer when they cast the spell so why does it travel to the creature? In Pen and Paper the creature was pulled into the gem and not pulled into it on contact like a pokemon so this mechanic is a bit bizarre.

[Rakian_Knight]

Hey this is D&D, where is the Roleplay?

Its the Rogue class aka not honest people by definition

Its WAI

Not true, not all rogues are chaotic, some can be lawful.

About Trap the Soul, why do the gems drop where the monster died? The gem used to trap creatures is a focus/material component held by the wizard/sorcerer when they cast the spell so why does it travel to the creature? In Pen and Paper the creature was pulled into the gem and not pulled into it on contact like a pokemon so this mechanic is a bit bizarre.

Agreed

However, Soul Gems is the only thing that I would want controlled because the new wealth of the trapped soul is now worth material components.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

/signed

[Xyzima]

Ore in Relic of a sovereign past. whenever i lead that quest. i say before hand. I will pick up all the ore. and distribute it fairly between anyone who wants it(i have 3 level 20's i dont need ore, im there for exp). and if i dont get 15 ore. nobody gets any and i blacklist those characters from partying. (big piece of paper with names). its only happened once that i didnt get all the ore, and 1 time i messed up and got an item i didnt want with ore i didnt want to use and wanted to give away. i blacklisted the party that i didnt get ore from. and apologized to the people that didnt get ore that wanted some(2 people, one needed 5 for an item 1 needed 10), and soloed the ore and mailed it to them when the party was over. since it was my fault the ore was lost.

and in wow. i always made it so that if i was leader i would delegate loot of chests and whatnot. im usually fair about it and offer rolls on any item of relevence. albiet sometimes i was a bit selfish. it was only if an item was immediately more useful than one i had on. and if it was id offer my lesser item to the party if it wasnt bound. unless no one else could use it...