18 Pally/ 2 Fighter 71+ Intim 43+UMD 90 AC

[Garbudo]

I dont think he has a protection item on and he is not in defender mode nor does he have combat expertise on barkskin?
did not read his build just figured he would have built it like that

[Eeomis]

How did the OP get Combat Expertise without 13 int?


E

[Aeneas]

That con score is huge for a drow that is spread out into high numbers in almost every other stat.

In fact, i'm not sure how you got it that high unless you last logged out with rage and madstone rage going since all 5 level ups are into charisma.

Assuming you somehow maxed out at creation with 16 points, you'd need +4 tome, +9 from items and exceptional bonuses, and even then you'd still be 3 short of the 32 i'm seeing on your myddo page - am i missing something or am i just seeing your str and con scores while raged up?

EDIT: Defender of Siberys stance would account for those 3 i suppose - i'd still be interested in your stat breakdowns though

[Lorz]

Your profile shows 10 months june 2009 to be exact at 5700+ posts approx 19 a day.

Please Play your rep game somewhere else.

I clearly posted this as a tank thread (Please no more Drama Queens) <----not playing this time LOL

davidcampa, ive been here a long time...go look up my join date.

I have the same question about what else besides standing there and also about the questions regarding how you got the stats we are seeing. Not attacking asking. You opened this up why not answer instead of getting all bent about join dates. As stated, i am by no mean new so lets just take that little dig you made off the table right there...so please do explain. Maybe ill learn something...but getting all bent like that and getting all uppity about join date...dude that is uncalled for.

So stop with your drama and lets get back to Class/toon building discussions.

I mean if its only designed to hold agro thats fine...but asking if you had to sacrifice str for this build and how it is working out are perfectly legitimate questions. Believe it or not some of us are interested in how others do it vs how we do it. Im not trying to pass judgement over your toon...just trying to understand the compromises we make...sometimes...I learn stuff that way.

[HallowedOne]

You have Syberis set, does that give +4 ( 2 for each item ) or +2 extra ac?

Very very nice stuff u got on your pally btw :P

[sephiroth1084]

You have Syberis set, does that give +4 ( 2 for each item ) or +2 extra ac?

Very very nice stuff u got on your pally btw :P

The set gives a bonus to hate generation normally, and +2 AC is you also have DoS III. The set only gives +2 AC.

I'm also really puzzled about how the stats ended up where they are; that's a lot of high stats starting from fairly low points. It would be useful to know whether we're seeing a lot of exceptional stat items, potions, and temporary bonuses, as otherwise it just isn't very useful reading this thread, since the results won't be replicable.


I'm also of the opinion that the non-tanking role of this build is pretty weak; having no DPS option and lowish Str mean that in any situation in which you are not tanking you won't really be contributing. This is an interesting character, possibly (kinda dependent upon how you arrived at those stats), but not something I'd recommend to many people, especially not newer players. That's an important note for the people who have commented here that they really like the character and may be considering rolling one up.

The fact is, a character with the same levels, different starting stats and level up points in Str can have the same AC (or higher), enough intimidate to hit just about everything but the epic DQ (that you can do so on this build is a big plus), and can attain enough UMD to use Heal scrolls without fail, while providing much greater DPS both in and out of tanking mode.

Now, I admit that I tend to prefer a slightly hybridized tank that has something useful to do when not turtled up, which is really a large portion of the game. Also, given the much better tools defensive paladins and fighters have been given for hate-tanking, turtling up is even less frequently useful than it had been before. Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of instances where this type of strategy is useful, and I like going with a couple of turtled intimitanks for ToD, but unless the only things you're running with the character are quests in which this strategy is very useful, you're just not going to be a desirable addition to most groups.

[Quikster]

Your profile shows 10 months june 2009 to be exact at 5700+ posts approx 19 a day.

Please Play your rep game somewhere else.

I clearly posted this as a tank thread (Please no more Drama Queens) <----not playing this time LOL

Visty is from the EU servers and came to the us servers recently.

I dont see him playing a game, I see him asking legit questions that are covered all over these boards. If you dont have the capability to put out dps what are you doing in the 95% of the game that doesnt need a tank? This is nothing new, and has been asked of many peoples builds.

Instead of trying to put him down, maybe answer his legit question.

You didnt really use a house D pot to get your str up did you?

[lord_of_rage]

You can easily squeeze in the thf or twf feats with a two fghter splash depending on what you are spending feats on. Having a high intim is good but having a dps option is better, DOS builds can hate tank just fine and still have a twf ac in the 70s raid buffed. To me the build lacks hp and con and a dps option. IMO a tank without a dps option is an out dated concept.

[Ivid]

Well, from what I see - it doesn't look like this character would have much difficult hitting. Someone said low strength... but figure the 14 uses of Divine Might IV (?) is the equivalent of 16 Str, and then... Smite Evil...

Also looks like quite a bit of effort. Kudos!

[SaIamander]

he mentioned a 5 guard shroud set as well as DT armor....while noted that his str is low, I believe that the guard procs and MinII and LitII he's wielding will put his dps on par with most average equipped capped dps based toons. So for a toon that is mostly by admission just for tanking it looks like it can still hold its own when dps is needed.

[lord_of_rage]

Well, from what I see - it doesn't look like this character would have much difficult hitting. Someone said low strength... but figure the 14 uses of Divine Might IV (?) is the equivalent of 16 Str, and then... Smite Evil...

Also looks like quite a bit of effort. Kudos!

He cant get divine might4 with a 2 lvl splash. DM4 requires 20 paladin lvls. He has DM3 exalted smite 4 and DS3 I believe. DPS S%b is not on par with thf it will take a boost with dwarven axe and bastard sword, but thf and twf still trump it. If you build in a dps option either thf or twf and craft the weapons in lit2 or min2 you will deal more dps and be more viable. And personally I prefer human or dwarf for a DOS build.

[sephiroth1084]

Well, from what I see - it doesn't look like this character would have much difficult hitting. Someone said low strength... but figure the 14 uses of Divine Might IV (?) is the equivalent of 16 Str, and then... Smite Evil...

Also looks like quite a bit of effort. Kudos!

Remember, DM doesn't add to to-hit, just damage, and that any paladin could have the same. He has, apparently, a buffed up 30 Str, while my tank, for example, has an unbuffed 32, with a potential for up to around 38 or more, while maintaining the same (or better) AC, enough saves to make anything on a 2+ and about 10 points less intimidate (enough for everything but epic DQ). I'm not saying that this is a gimp, but that it is definitely not something most people should be building and playing, since it really is only useful in fairly narrow set of circumstances.

he mentioned a 5 guard shroud set as well as DT armor....while noted that his str is low, I believe that the guard procs and MinII and LitII he's wielding will put his dps on par with most average equipped capped dps based toons. So for a toon that is mostly by admission just for tanking it looks like it can still hold its own when dps is needed.

Guards are pretty poor on high-AC tanks since they just don't trigger very often. Even less so when shieldblocking as well.

The real problem is that, in a 6-man quest, do you want someone who spends almost all their time just holding aggro? That might fly in some few instances, but most of the time, that loss of DPS is going to slow the group down a lot more than the easier fights will likely improve the speed of the run. Similarly, if you're swinging your sword instead of intimitanking, your poor DPS might as well be any other reasonably geared and specced DPS character.

Again, I like intimitanks, as evidenced by the few I've played, and continue to tweak and play, but after running 2 up to cap, doing high-level raiding, epics and everything else, it's become pretty clear that not having something meaningful to do when not blocking just leaves you as a weak link in your group--you may survive, but you won't be killing stuff.

[Swedishchef]

Well a epic falcata will (if ´he ever get a problem to hit) sort it out and he will have enough dmg output from divine might etc.
Beeing a meber of Legion i don´t see him having troubles getting that sorted, and then there should be no more questionmarks.

Thou i admit i would prefer another type of character, howerver i think this is viable if you like this kind of thing.

[Quikster]

Well a epic falcata will (if ´he ever get a problem to hit) sort it out and he will have enough dmg output from divine might etc.
Beeing a meber of Legion i don´t see him having troubles getting that sorted, and then there should be no more questionmarks.

Thou i admit i would prefer another type of character, howerver i think this is viable if you like this kind of thing.

Viable and prolly fun to play for the op which is more important imo. But it should be represented that it doesnt have a viable dps option for players that are looking to go this route.

[sephiroth1084]

Viable and prolly fun to play for the op which is more important imo. But it should be represented that it doesnt have a viable dps option for players that are looking to go this route.

And that's really all I'm trying to emphasize; the build is interesting, and clearly serves the OP well, but folks viewing this need to understand that it takes the intimitank character to an even narrower niche than where those types of characters typically exist. The OP mentioned that he tends to only run the character with guildies and friends in quests where such a character is needed, but that is not how most people play their characters.

I for one know that if I group with a tank that cannot hit or kill anything while leveling, I probably won't group with that character again, and that is the way a lot of people (not going to erroneously claim a majority or minority here) feel about such things. It's just a matter of putting together a party that can get stuff done.

[Swedishchef]

Viable and prolly fun to play for the op which is more important imo. But it should be represented that it doesnt have a viable dps option for players that are looking to go this route.

Well if u grind for the epic falcata you can compare that to grinind for dual greensteel so the route for a new player isn´t that bad. (if you wonder why i compare 2 minral grinds to the falcata it bc that is what most high-end dps toons want, and thus the build is using S&B it´d only need one min II and can then move on to epic grind/item shroud grind)

1 mineral= the usual grind
1 epic falcata grind = 1 mineral weapon grind.

Not fun but totaly doabel.

[sephiroth1084]

Well if u grind for the epic falcata you can compare that to grinind for dual greensteel so the route for a new player isn´t that bad. (if you wonder why i compare 2 minral grinds to the falcata it bc that is what most high-end dps toons want, and thus the build is using S&B it´d only need one min II and can then move on to epic grind/item shroud grind)

1 mineral= the usual grind
1 epic falcata grind = 1 mineral weapon grind.

Not fun but totaly doabel.

Well, a paladin only really needs 1 Mineral II, and that's just for the +4 AC on a DPS-bypassing weapon. If you grind out +4 insight on your DT armor, a paladin could easily get by just using a pair of Holy Swords.

Also, the grind for a Mineral II (or even 2) is much different than the grind for an epic desert item. For one, you can start the grind for your Shroud weapon(s) at level 13, and continue to work on it up through level 20. The Shroud is run multiple times a day, with easy to enter groups, a pretty high rate of success, and a high rate of acquiring ingredients (although you may not get the ones you need, you can certainly get some to contribute to your eventual weapon every run).

On top of that, you can purchase nearly all of the ingredients necessary. Also, larges and mediums can now also be found on occasion in Amrath, which further expands the possibilities, and serves to lessen the grind very slightly.

Attaining an epic desert weapon, on the other hand, can only be started at level 20, tends to require a fair bit of previous grinding for gear, and has no sense of progression whatsoever--either you've managed to find the scroll, seal and shard of the item you want, or you haven't. And the items are both far from guaranteed, and their drop rates are very watered down due to the sheer number of desert items. Further, these quests are run less frequently, and by more discerning groups.

The grinds are absolutely incomparable! AND, the Falcata isn't nearly as useful as the Mineral II in most situations, so that's a greater grind (potentially...there is also some element of luck, I suppose, that you may get everything you need in just a few runs) for an item that offers less benefit.

[davidcampa]

[davidcampa]

[sephiroth1084]

Davidcampa, most people here just want to see how you arrive at your 30 Str (and 32 Con and 38 Cha and 20 Wis, etc...), as that would make it much easier to see how to work toward this character. You may not think of it as a build thread, but what else is it? When you say, "This is my build, and here is what I do with it," you're either bragging, or giving us a character build/concept to consider.

Again, I find it intriguing, but am not thrilled with how much the DPS suffers vs. a fairly comparable AC tank with more Str and less Cha, but I can't tell how much of a difference that really is, since I have no idea how you reached your stats. If the difference between a higher-Str build and your Str is just a Yugo pot (I'm sure it isn't), then that's not a big deal, but if it's actually a few buffs away, a loss of 5 or more points of DPS is kind of significant.

It would be very informative, and particularly useful for newer players looking at this thread and thinking that they might want to replicate your character to see something like:
Str 13 base + 6 item +2 tome +etc, etc...

Rather than, I have a 30 Str.