Halfling Assassin Build Advice

[dhatcher1]

I was thinking of making a TWF, Dragonmark self-healing Halfling assassin. The main issue is that I am a noob so I have no idea what endgame is like and have a bunch of questions.

At endgame would this build be useless/weak(requires strong gear to be useful) /average/strong at DPS?
At endgame would this build be useless/weak(requires strong gear to be useful)/average/strong at trap clearing?
Is there some other function assassins perform I am missing?

What levels do I need to boost the various skills up to to be useful at endgame. Particularly balance, hide/move silent, jump (someone said 10 jump is good enough?)

Which rogue class feats are valuable?

Thanks for any advice, adjustments or even "scrap that useless noob build" comments.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Female
(2 Fighter \ 18 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 240
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 18
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    20
Dexterity            17                    22
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting            Ending          
                 Base Skills        Base Skills       
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
Balance               6                 21            
Bluff                -1                 -1            
Concentration         2                  2            
Diplomacy            -1                 -1            
Disable Device        5                 24            
Haggle                3                 22            
Heal                 -1                 -1            
Hide                  6                 23            
Intimidate           -1                 -1            
Jump                  3                 15            
Listen               -1                 -1            
Move Silently         6                 18            
Open Lock             7                 29            
Perform              n/a               n/a            
Repair                1                  1            
Search                5                 24            
Spot                  3                 22            
Swim                  3                  7            
Tumble                4                  7            
Use Magic Device      3                 22            

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III

[DareDelvis]

I am sorry that I could only scan this, but my inital thought is that I am not sure if you are trying to build a strength based rogue. If so, your strength is pretty low compared to other builds.

If this is dex-based, I did not see weapon finesse.

With this mix of str and dex being mediocre, your to hit + will be lower than other builds that focused one or the other.

[dhatcher1]

I started with a 17 dex for improved TWF then put everything I could into strength for more damage.

My thinking is that running with high threat weapons (rapier/scimitar/kopesh/kukri), TWF and improved crit I will do alot of crits and want the multiplied strength bonus for damage. I believe the effect would be the same as putting all the points into dex with finesse and power attack. If my reasoning does not play well in endgame then the build wont work, which is why I am asking here.

[unbongwah]

The problem with adding halfling `marks to an almost-pure rogue is it really eats up your feats. You don't have Power Attack, which I consider a requirement for practically any melee build.

The problem with taking an extra fighter level is you give up an extra rogue bonus feat and +1D6 SA by not taking rogue 19.

And the problem with going with a STR-based halfling rogue is their STR penalty, of course, which lowers your to-hit compared to a DEX-based halfling rogue.

That said, I don't think your build is super-gimped or anything, though I would drop OTWF and take Toughness instead at lvl 3 then take PA at lvl 18. It just has issues.

[Kawabonga]

Check this thread :
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=242027

[Gnorbert]

Well, You are basically missing out on 1d6 SA damage and Defensive roll. I think you gain more to this build with more HP, an extra feat and Fighter Strength I. Halfling Sneak attack enhancements will make up for the to-hit and damage of a reduced strength.

I like the build. I do agree with moving toughness earlier. You won't have an issue hitting things in the early game. At late game you can then decide between OTWF and power attack. If you can't hit things then power attack won't help you. The bigger portion of your damage will be sneak attack damage so it's more important to hit things. OTWF versus power attack is a 7 point swing in your to-hit bonus... if you aren't hitting on a 2 without power attack then that 7 points means power attack will cause you to hit 35% less than if you'd taken OTWF. In that scenario, OTWF is actually worth more damage to you than power attack.

[dhatcher1]

Well, You are basically missing out on 1d6 SA damage and Defensive roll. I think you gain more to this build with more HP, an extra feat and Fighter Strength I. Halfling Sneak attack enhancements will make up for the to-hit and damage of a reduced strength.

I took the lvl 2 fighter specifically for those reasons (STR, 10HP, feat). Is defensive roll or slippery mind more important as the second rogue feat? I am assuming crippling strike is the correct choice for the first one?

I do agree with moving toughness earlier. You won't have an issue hitting things in the early game. At late game you can then decide between OTWF and power attack.

Thats a great point. I wanted to take toughness earlier, but was looking for improved TWF and when I wasnt that early forgot toughness and grabbed the only TWF feat I could.

[Gnorbert]

I would say slippery mind is more important to at least give you a second shot at making that will save. I go with Imp evasion then crippling strike and then slippery mind. However, if your will save is complete garbage then you may not be able to make that save even if you have two chances at it... if that's the case then Defensive roll might actually benefit more since it also works off your reflex save.

[RobinofSpiritwood]

There are some things you might consider:

1) Start off with 15-16 Dex only, and use a Tome of Dex (+1 or +2) to get 17 when required. Saves a point or 2 for investment elsewhere.
2) Consider 2 levels of Ranger at levels 2 & 3 instead of Fighter.
BAB is the same. Hide, MS, Search & Spot are standard skills.
You gain Rapid Shot and Bow Strength free, and a +1 to hit/damage a favored enemy. You get wand based heals free, so you do not have to invest in Dragonmarks. 2-WF is free too.
So- that saves you 4 free feats to add to the pot, plus the enhancement points for the extra Dragonmark use.

Costs you 1 point of Fighter Strength, and 10 HP for Fighter Toughness, plus 4 HP from having D8 dice instead of D10 for 2 levels. If you invest one of the 4 free feats into an additional Toughness, it would offset some of the HP deficit, and still leave you 3 left over.

You could take Improved Crit in both Pierce & Slash- and gain access to a very wide weapons array. Or go with Exotic Weapon: Khopesh and Power Attack, and Weapon Focus Slashing. Or branch out into strengthening the shooting with Precise Shot, Imp Precise Shot and Imp Crit Ranged weapons. Whatever suits you mood, because it's all gravy on top of your already good build.

[dhatcher1]

I re-did the build based on posted recommendations, but I am getting some other feedback indicating the following problems:

1> To-hit might be too low (I dont see how starting str at 16 for a +1 can mean much; boosting dex instead of STR and using finesse/power attack nets about the same result). Someone else said to hit at endgame is pretty easy so I am totally confounded.

2> Dragon-marks take up more feats/enhancements than they are worth, a rogue/ranger using wands to heal is more viable. (5 heals, 5 cure serious, 8 cure light per rest takes 3 feats and 10 enhancements)


I am trying to avoid creating a character that I get up to level 12 - 15 and find I cant make into a viable endgame build. I want one that can handle trap removal. I would prefer it to also be fairly self sufficient (self healing) and provide at least moderate DPS. Its on a new server so I dont have any gear/money and I dont have drow/monk/fvs, but do have warforged. Anyone got a build idea that will work for me?

In order to hit monsters at epic endgame content what what modified BAB (after modifiers like power attack, enhancements, etc) do I need?

In order to handle epic traps its my understanding that with a base 24, you can reasonably expect to get a +12 or +15 item and a +6 int item to get a net 39 or 42. Is that enough or are there more stackables you need to search/disable at that level?

[Artos_Fabril]

You gain Rapid Shot and Bow Strength free

You don't gain much of anything by having these until they fix the numerous bugs in ranged combat. With multishot, ranged becomes good for 20 seconds every 2 minutes, without it, it's just a couple points of bonus damage while they run towards you, or pegging hard to reach critters.

The only feat you "gain" is TWF, unless you're counting not spending feats on halfling dragonmarks, so you actually come out one feat behind by taking rng2 over ftr2.

[RobinofSpiritwood]

The only feat you "gain" is TWF, unless you're counting not spending feats on halfling dragonmarks, so you actually come out one feat behind by taking rng2 over ftr2.

Building a "self-healing" assassin was the goal. So I counted those. The shooting benefits are not part of the 4 feats referred to.
Ranger is still merely a strong alternative to the good options provided by Fighter levels, but probably more in line with this build concept.

[Tiemmothi]

Building a "self-healing" assassin was the goal. So I counted those. The shooting benefits are not part of the 4 feats referred to.
Ranger is still merely a strong alternative to the good options provided by Fighter levels, but probably more in line with this build concept.

I have a 18 halfling thief/1 fighter/1 monk assassin that is a real blast to play.

Self healing is fine with wands and UMD heal scrolls (80% chance). With a few items i can get that to 100%. I use two +5 metaline of pure good daggers for most raiding and the auto vorpal for the level 18 assassin enhancement is awesome. In end game I dont use the tier 2 ability much.

[Razcar]

I don't think DM's are such a good way to go on a build with 18 levels of rogue. First you won't get any enhancements to boost your healing spells and you won't have access to meta-magic feats either, unless you splash a class that gets spells at level 1. So your Least and Lesser DM's will be quite pointless unless you're boosting them with Potency/Devotion, something that is unlikely to be equipped in combat if you 'll need the Lesser DM's, and of course your Greater DM's will hit for more if you have a bit of enhancement boost and maybe even the Empower Healing feat.

And more importantly, and as other are saying ibn this thread, almost-pure rogues are quite feat-starved. If we would have the PnP core rule in DDP that says rogues could take any feat they want in lieue of their special rogue feats , it would be different (don't ask me why we don't have that rule here, think they just forgot or didn't bother - rogue is the ginger stepchild of the DDO classes after all).

To add to that, you can quite easily get no-fail UMD on Heal scrolls on a rogue, which admittedly can be interupted and will heal for less, but are otherwise only limited by your backpack space.

If you want to get DM's on a rogue I advise to only go 13 levels of rogue, and then 6 levels of fighter for feats, or 6 levels of ranger for saving on feats (not taking Tempest) and getting Ram's might, healing enhancements and skill points or maybe even 6 levels of pally for Empower Healing feat and enhancements (and 1 level monk in all builds). But in my view it's not a perfect fit anyway, and I have three capped characters with Halfling DM's so I like them a lot.

Of course that heavy splash sacrifices Assassin III.

[Angelus_dead]

Building a "self-healing" assassin was the goal.

Pretty much every assassin is already self-healing.

Just being a Rogue means you'll certainly have UMD skill, and that skill lets you use wands and scrolls which honestly are more powerful than the dragonmarks. The healing dragonmarks are quick in an emergency and don't have a plat cost for each use, but at high level when it takes 10-30 scrolls to get between shrines the dragonmarks aren't much of a help.

Because you haven't seen high level gameplay, you probably are unaware of how affordable Heal scrolls actually are.

[dhatcher1]

Thanks for the responses. Thats the sort of info I needed.

Since I almost have drow unlocked, I am dropping the DM halfling idea in preference to a drow TWF tempest ranger/rogue build, which I believe is not that uncommon. Please check it out and let me know of any noobish mistakes I am making with it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=244906