The Superior Soul

[Impaqt]

Interesting, not sure I'd recommend picking up power attack though, not without getting some +to-hit gear anyway. Mostly it seems as if your scores are spread too thin, notably the 12 con. This is definitely a build that would benefit from TR, so perhaps consider doing that first and picking a couple past life feats that would work well with it.

You dont think 500+ Hit points is good enough?

[Zuldar]

You dont think 500+ Hit points is good enough?

It's a little light for epic content. Though I'd imagine you'd be primarily casting there.

[Impaqt]

It's a little light for epic content. Though I'd imagine you'd be primarily casting there.

I've never consuidered a hitpoint swing of 20-40 points to be a qualifying factor for Epic.

[Zuldar]

I've never consuidered a hitpoint swing of 20-40 points to be a qualifying factor for Epic.

You can never have too many hp for epic.

[Logic]

As for "pulling ideas", I think the concept of melee FvS vs. divine caster FvS and every derivation thereof were pretty much thrown out there within 1 week of the FvS being announced over a year ago. So technically since then, every build posted is pulling ideas from another build

I'll agree with that. The FvS doesn't really have very complicated builds. It would be like me posting a "new build" of a pure 20 barb :P

I guess the part that I thought was funny was how Impaqt made fun of my build and then a week later reposted a very similar build with the same race, same class, 6 of the same feats, and the same mix of melee and offensive casting. And then said...

Not nearly Identcal.. Hardly in the same area code.
They are both 20 FvS, thats about where the similarities end.

Whether you focus on str or wisdom is just preference on how you want to specialize your char.

And yes I know how much spellcasting 4 DC matters, but to-hit also matters in epics. Try hitting an 70-80AC mob while dual wiedling with 14 base str, no levelup str points, no spring attack, and probably no OTWF. You won't be hitting a thing until the AC debuffs drop on or stuns land.

And let me clarify on the build I posted I said it's the most powerful overall build I could think of. Which involves tons of past lives. I stated that you can still do the build without ever TRing, it just won't be as powerful. I do not plan on TRing my human longsword FvS... it takes so much time.

And to say this makes no sense.

Aside from the change of race, it's almost exactly the same as my Drow FvS.

Different race and you chose a different capstone. The free heal capstone is the base for the character and huge if you plan on soloing a lot of epic content. Run the epic and grab all the scrolls for yourself, then post in looking for group "free epic dungeon token", and then make them give you anything in the chest. The 30% healing amp from human really makes it so you can hold up against epic mobs.

Anyhow as Aerendil says FvS builds aren't rocket science. Just funny that Impaqt made fun of my build that has the same race, class, 6 of the same feats, and the same mix of offensive casting/longsword melee. And then post a very similar build, and then claimed that there are no similarities other than the class.

[Logic]

You dont think 500+ Hit points is good enough?

Yeah 500+ is better than some classes. But I'd start at least 14 con if human.

[Logic]

Logic, the builds are not the same.
Your build requires +3 tomes to get feats (seriously now?), plus a past life in every class.
This one doesn't.
That's a huge difference right there.

Really shifting 1 dex point qualifies as a "new build"?

Improved Critical is better for his build since the melee will be a backup to the casting from looking at the stats, and a lot of debuffs only happen on criticals.

I sort of see what you are saying about the debuffs. But if you are talking about weighted 5% stun debuffs (the best IMO) then GTWF is better at debuffing. If you are talking about destruction/improved destruction then GTWF is better at debuffing. If you are talking about crippling debuffs then (assuming the mob is moving) then IC slash will only cripple slightly more because GTWF will an extra hook attack while moving and IC slash won't. Stat debuffs then IC slash is only 11% better while standing still, worse when moving - calculate it yourself. Banishing works great on easy content, what encounters do you struggle with where banishing is perimount? I can see an argument for radiance II, but what other "debuffs" are you talking about?

It just seems by taking IC slash you give up a lot and only get a little. Just my opinion I guess.

[Impaqt]

I'll agree with that. The FvS doesn't really have very complicated builds. It would be like me posting a "new build" of a pure 20 barb :P

I guess the part that I thought was funny was how Impaqt made fun of my build and then a week later reposted a very similar build with the same race, same class, 6 of the same feats, and the same mix of melee and offensive casting. And then said...

I guess if Quoting YOUR exact "Highlights" of the build is making fun of it, your right.

Whether you focus on str or wisdom is just preference on how you want to specialize your char.

and It changes the dynamics of the build presented considerably.

And yes I know how much spellcasting 4 DC matters, but to-hit also matters in epics. Try hitting an 70-80AC mob while dual wiedling with 14 base str, no levelup str points, no spring attack, and probably no OTWF. You won't be hitting a thing until the AC debuffs drop on or stuns land.

Your a bit off on the mob AC in Epic. If you are meleeing Epic Velah or the DQ, your doing a disservice to the group your in.

And let me clarify on the build I posted I said it's the most powerful overall build I could think of. Which involves tons of past lives. I stated that you can still do the build without ever TRing, it just won't be as powerful. I do not plan on TRing my human longsword FvS... it takes so much time.

So you presented a build not even YOU would attempt to build. I have already started min and will have it caped within a month most likely. Significantly Different.

Anyhow as Aerendil says FvS builds aren't rocket science. Just funny that Impaqt made fun of my build that has the same race, class, 6 of the same feats, and the same mix of offensive casting/longsword melee. And then post a very similar build, and then claimed that there are no similarities other than the class.

And yet, you admit, Mine is Effective and yours is a Pointless concept exercise no one will ever build.

So I guess if this build is "Nearly Identical" you must of Copied my build here and just Dropped the 2 Monk Levels? http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=219885

Or maybe it was this one?
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=197389

ZOMG! YOU COPIED MY BUILD!

[Impaqt]

Really shifting 1 dex point qualifies as a "new build"?

1 Point in Dex, 3 Points in STR, 2 Points in CON, 2 Points in WIS, Level up Points are Distribiuted DIfferently, 5 Different Included Tomes, Yours is obsessed with healing amplification, Mine could care less, Your has 6 Greensteel items, 4 Wearables.. so cant even be considered completed until you have 80+ Shroud Runs, mine is a Single Standard 32 Point Character, and yours is a "Completionist" 10x True Res character...

sorry.. Not the same... Oh, and you stole someones elses build name too

[Logic]

I posted my build as a kinda "Hey wouldn't this be a fun build if you had all the gear and time in the world to TR 10 times?" Sure nobody will probably ever build it, but I thought it was interesting. It's not even a build so much as it is saying "hey capstone can heal 170HP non-crit, think of the possibilities." Maybe this has been realized already but I am a newer player so I thought it was pretty cool.

I have never posted to criticize anybodies build (until now I guess).

Ok anyhow moving on to constructive criticism (sorry for derailing).

The IC slash vs. GTWF point I raised. Unless I missed something, the way I see it GTWF has way more benefits than IC slash. Can you explain this one? This is not a malicious or rhetorical question, I'm actually curious because I'm planning on taking GTWF with my guy, and don't want to have to feat swap if IC is actually better. Are there some on-crit effects that I forgot about in my earlier post?

[AylinIsAwesome]

Really shifting 1 dex point qualifies as a "new build"?

If you can't tell the difference between a STR-based and a WIS-based build, then nothing I say will be able to help you understand that.

[Impaqt]

I posted my build as a kinda "Hey wouldn't this be a fun build if you had all the gear and time in the world to TR 10 times?" Sure nobody will probably ever build it, but I thought it was interesting. It's not even a build so much as it is saying "hey capstone can heal 170HP non-crit, think of the possibilities." Maybe this has been realized already but I am a newer player so I thought it was pretty cool.

I have never posted to criticize anybodies build (until now I guess).

Ok anyhow moving on to constructive criticism (sorry for derailing).

The IC slash vs. GTWF point I raised. Unless I missed something, the way I see it GTWF has way more benefits than IC slash. Can you explain this one? This is not a malicious or rhetorical question, I'm actually curious because I'm planning on taking GTWF with my guy, and don't want to have to feat swap if IC is actually better. Are there some on-crit effects that I forgot about in my earlier post?

GTWF provides one more "Swing" at the End of the 4 animation attack Chain. that means, the only benefit you will ever see from it is when you are stationary hitting a Stationary target. Some boss fights are like this (Although, I still often reposition often in The Shroud and Abbot) but most of the time, your not standingin one place swinging consistently all that often. Especially on a Melee build that is going to be debuffing more than DPSing.

THis is NOT a DPS Build.

It winds up with decent DPS due to FvS Longsword ENh and FvS Buffs, but its not designed to be a primary melee DPS Build at all. Thats why the IC is more important.

[Irinis]

The starting stats you posted don't really take advantage of Litany, what do you think of these?

Abilities
(32 Point)
{26}Strength 14 +2 Tome +1 Human +6 Item +2 Rage +1 LotD
{24}Dexterity 15 +2 Tome +6 Item +1 LotD
{24}Constitution 13 (+1 tome) +2 Tome +6 Item +2 Rage +1 LotD
{16}Intelligence 9 +1 Tome +5 Item as needed +1 LotD
{36}Wisdom 16 +5 Levels +2 Tome +2 FvS +1 Human +6 Item +3 Exceptional +1 LotD
{26}Charisma 10 +2 Tome +2 FvS +2 Capstone +6 Item +3 Exceptional +1 LotD

Even stats at the end
+1 tome of INT at level 3 gives access to 1 more skill point per level starting at level 4 rather than level 8
+1 enhancement or tome of CON early on evens that up for slightly more survivability while leveling, reset enhancements after getting Litany or eat a +2 tome instead of +1 after
Could get 18 INT by eating +2 tome and using +6 item instead of +5 but why would you want that?

Of course that also assumes you don't swap your Litany out very often.

Doesn't rage spell also add +2 to CON?

EDIT: Added rage to CON.

[Impaqt]

The starting stats you posted don't really take advantage of Litany, what do you think of these?

ANd yours is no longer optimal if ya get a +3 Tome.. Or shift around the Human Adaptability, or get a TOD RIng, or Drink a House D Pot, etc etc etc etc...

Bottom line, there is no way to account for every variable in Stat points. there are lots of ways to go up or down a point or 2.

Doesn't rage spell also add +2 to CON?

Yeah, it does.

[Aspenor]

All sorcerers ever made are copies of my build.

[aristarchus1000]

GTWF provides one more "Swing" at the End of the 4 animation attack Chain. that means, the only benefit you will ever see from it is when you are stationary hitting a Stationary target. Some boss fights are like this (Although, I still often reposition often in The Shroud and Abbot) but most of the time, your not standingin one place swinging consistently all that often. Especially on a Melee build that is going to be debuffing more than DPSing.

Actually, greater TWF adds the "4th hook" on the first attack of the stationary chain, and it also adds the "hook" to the first attack of the moving chain (of which there are only 2). http://ddowiki.com/page/Greater_two-weapon_fighting

I actually think that gTWF is often underestimated (if that were possible). It's not the "8th attack" but actually the first attack of any stationary chain, and also the 1st attack of the moving chain, which means that in many situations (moving, then attacking, then moving while attacking), it can easily represent a 30-50% increase in attacks if your stationary chain is constantly being interrupted. I found that the melee ability of my character increases by quite a bit after getting gTWF, much more than can be explained by getting "one more attack out of seven."

[Logic]

Actually, greater TWF adds the "4th hook" on the first attack of the stationary chain, and it also adds the "hook" to the first attack of the moving chain (of which there are only 2). http://ddowiki.com/page/Greater_two-weapon_fighting

I actually think that gTWF is often underestimated (if that were possible). It's not the "8th attack" but actually the first attack of any stationary chain, and also the 1st attack of the moving chain, which means that in many situations (moving, then attacking, then moving while attacking), it can easily represent a 30-50% increase in attacks if your stationary chain is constantly being interrupted. I found that the melee ability of my character increases by quite a bit after getting gTWF, much more than can be explained by getting "one more attack out of seven."

Ah thats exactly what I was trying to say, but you said it more clearly.

During stationary DPS GTWF comes out slightly ahead of IC slash in most situations (for longswords).

Durtion moving DPS GTWF comes out far ahead of IC slash.

So basically it comes down to how important "on crit" affects are to you. As I posted before the tradeoffs as I see them are...

IC slash gives you 17-20 crit range instead of 19-20 with longswords.
I think GTWF gives you a 4th offhand attack (4 miainhand + 4 offhand instead of 4 mainhand + 3 offhand), and an additional attack when moving.

Situations where IC slash > GTWF
When smiting (if you can't afford keen smiting 15-20 crit range weps, or don't have swappable DT armor)
When banishing
When stat damaging (only an 11% increase in stat damage rate for a weak/enfeeb longsword, 19% if scim/kukri)
Crippling, slowburst, radiance II, etc.

So situations where GTWF > IC slash
When using blunt to bypass DR
When using weighted 5% (i.e. tenderizers)
When using mineral II
When a mob is autocrittable (stun, hold, stat damage to 0, etc)
When switching to picks vs an autocrittable mob
When vorpaling
***While moving***
Against high fort mobs/bosses
AND ***against most low fort mobs with most weapons the feats are about equal***

[Irinis]

ANd yours is no longer optimal if ya get a +3 Tome.. Or shift around the Human Adaptability, or get a TOD RIng, or Drink a House D Pot, etc etc etc etc...

Bottom line, there is no way to account for every variable in Stat points. there are lots of ways to go up or down a point or 2.

True. I was just wondering if I was missing some reason to have odd stats at the end!

[Nezichiend]

Mineral longswords removes the need for IC:slash.... so switch it then

[Lucen791]

This build looks interesting and I'm thinking about playing around with it. But I've noticed that starting with 10 CHA prevents me from casting spells at level 1. I'm a new player and don't have a lot of resources to throw at this build just yet. Am I better off working on something else (I'm 3 levels into a ranger18/rogue1/monk1 build) until I can afford to toss some stat items at this build at low levels or should I just modify the starting attributes a bit?

Since this is a more of a caster than a melee DPS build (even though it does solid melee dps), perhaps something like...

14 STR
15 DEX
12 CON
8 IN
16 WIS
12 CHA

The other option would be dropping DEX I suppose. Any advice would be appreciated.