The Superior Soul

[Lerl]

Impaqt;

Thank you for posting this. I have been looking for a Fav S build that I liked and I just found it. I appreciate your efforts.

[D'rin]

So now that I am looking at making a favored soul. This one appeals to me. One quick question though. What do you think of leveling to 20 as 2/18 and then lesser to run with capstone when you want to?

Is delaying the good spells by 2 levels that big of a pain? Also does the 2/18 split play that much different than a pure pre 20?

[Impaqt]

So now that I am looking at making a favored soul. This one appeals to me. One quick question though. What do you think of leveling to 20 as 2/18 and then lesser to run with capstone when you want to?

Is delaying the good spells by 2 levels that big of a pain? Also does the 2/18 split play that much different than a pure pre 20?

If you enjoy spending money, sure.

Personally, I dont see the benefit of the 2 splash levels on a FvS.

[EyeRekon]

I'm curious to see how this build would be tweaked in light of the new PrE's announced soon

We've got the Elemental Savants in Update 9, a couple of minor tweaks to a few others, and the next ones on the list I plan on after that are the Divine Avenger, Deepwood Sniper II, and Ninja Spy III.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Divine_Avenger_enhancements
Divine Avenger: Equal parts warrior, support caster, and healer, these favored souls swing their weapons more often than they cast. Although not as specialized for spell casting, they are more skilled with weapons than any other caster.

[Impaqt]

I'm curious to see how this build would be tweaked in light of the new PrE's announced soon



http://ddowiki.com/page/Divine_Avenger_enhancements
Divine Avenger: Equal parts warrior, support caster, and healer, these favored souls swing their weapons more often than they cast. Although not as specialized for spell casting, they are more skilled with weapons than any other caster.

Not sure how I could answer that being as nothing has been revealed as far as prereqs or effects.

also, Its angel of Vengence thats coming. Eladrin corrected in response 43.

[EyeRekon]

Not sure how I could answer that being as nothing has been revealed as far as prereqs or effects.

also, Its angel of Vengence thats coming. Eladrin corrected in response 43.

My bad. That thread had changed since I had read it and posted here. I know that no details were revealed, it was just speculation on the premise there would be some combat enhancements and possibly feat requirements for the PrE. If some APs needed to be freed in order to take up some of the new enhancements then which enhancements of the current build would be highest/first on the chopping block.

[Impaqt]

My bad. That thread had changed since I had read it and posted here. I know that no details were revealed, it was just speculation on the premise there would be some combat enhancements and possibly feat requirements for the PrE. If some APs needed to be freed in order to take up some of the new enhancements then which enhancements of the current build would be highest/first on the chopping block.

If I have learned anything from my near 5 years of DDO, its to never speculate. Once we have previews on Lammania, I'll work on some stuff. Until then. It doesnt exist for me.

[EyeRekon]

Oh, and if indeed the first FvS PrE will be Angel of Vengence then the question is irrelevant for this build save for any extra emphasis placed on BBs. Angel of Vengence is much more relevant to your Evoker build.

[EyeRekon]

If I have learned anything from my near 5 years of DDO, its to never speculate. Once we have previews on Lammania, I'll work on some stuff. Until then. It doesnt exist for me.

That's certainly wise. Pardon me for getting excited then.

[Minttunator]

I've been away from the game and see that half-elves have been added, which makes me wonder - how would a half-elf work with this build instead of a human?

It seems the enhancements are mostly similar, so I guess it comes down to the human bonus feat versus a half-elf's Dilettante feat... are any of the Dilettante feats (and the accompanying enhancements) worth giving up something like Empower or GTWF in the context of this build?

[wax_on_wax_off]

NOTE FOr Level 18 Feat: you have several good choices here.
FOr Melee, you can take Improved Crit, Power Attack, or even Oversize TWF.
FOr Casting, Empower Spell or Heighten could work well.

Pretty sure I'm going to go with Empower Spell on mine primarily for BB and my Capstone healing.

you will also notice I did not take Greater TWF. THis is intentional. I feel Improved Crit is a better choice for this build. you lose ONE attack per sequence and gain +10% to your critical range. Much more efficient for Debuffing attacks like Crippling, Slowburst, as well as Banishing if ya get the Abbot Sword.

This is the part that I don't like about this build, though I imagine it has already been discussed? From everything I have learned a majority of the feats listed are critical (heighten, GTWF and power attack in particular, the others less so but still important).

Improved Critical: Slashing is no longer a better choice that GTWF. The extra 20% offhand proc rate will be better in 95% of situations, not sure if this has been discussed either (that said, I would want both available, but possibly with minII's to avoid taking IC:S).

All up, I think that there is too much diversity crammed in to this build with a luke warm result. Personally, if I was going to look at this it would include a 2 monk splash to ease the pressure on feats (though spell slots and loss of a capstone is painful).

There is a huge DPS difference between scimitars and longswords, they don't really compare. Plus, possibly the undying capstone would be useful for epic wiz king? Melee flavour is fine to add to a FvS but it's simply too expensive without splashing, imo.

[Impaqt]

This is the part that I don't like about this build, though I imagine it has already been discussed? From everything I have learned a majority of the feats listed are critical (heighten, GTWF and power attack in particular, the others less so but still important).

Improved Critical: Slashing is no longer a better choice that GTWF. The extra 20% offhand proc rate will be better in 95% of situations, not sure if this has been discussed either (that said, I would want both available, but possibly with minII's to avoid taking IC:S).

All up, I think that there is too much diversity crammed in to this build with a luke warm result. Personally, if I was going to look at this it would include a 2 monk splash to ease the pressure on feats (though spell slots and loss of a capstone is painful).

There is a huge DPS difference between scimitars and longswords, they don't really compare. Plus, possibly the undying capstone would be useful for epic wiz king? Melee flavour is fine to add to a FvS but it's simply too expensive without splashing, imo.

Actually, I ended up putting in IC earlier.

Power attack is far from important. If you are going to run the character end game, you will find that DPS is not important. I find I'm WAY more helpful to epic groups weilding destruction/Improved destruction.

The Dps difference between LS and Scimmy isnt really that steep.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Actually, I ended up putting in IC earlier.

Power attack is far from important. If you are going to run the character end game, you will find that DPS is not important. I find I'm WAY more helpful to epic groups weilding destruction/Improved destruction.

The Dps difference between LS and Scimmy isnt really that steep.

A majority of the mobs that I whack in epics don't need destruction/improved destruction on account of them being held/stunned. Power Attack is absolutely critical to doing decent DPS in epics due to the prevalence of the hold/stun strategy against trash. I actually really enjoy the combo of power attack + destruction (on armour preferably) with maybe an improved destruction in the offhand. Either way, power attack is still critical.

GTWF adds 12.5% DPS, how can you go without this?

You need heighten to hit evasion mobs with BB, how can you go without this?

Simply put there are many many ways that you could build a Favoured Soul to have 30%+ DPS while still fulfilling your primary objectives. Examples might include a pure half-orc THF twitch FvS or an 18 FvS/2 monk w/ scimitars or handwraps. Both of these builds could have similar stats and level ups as your build but have a higher AB, higher DPS and better feat selection (resulting in better spellcasting).

All that said, I don't know how you manage to choose between offensive, buffing and healing spells. On my pure melee strength based FvS I found it hard enough to fit in critical buffs with my minimal choice of offensive spells (blade barrier, holy aura, energy drain and searing light). I have no idea how you manage it on your build so hats off to you for that. I have figured out that if I did roll up an 18 FvS / 2 monk wisdom build that I would probably take energy drain as my sole level 9 spell as it is possible to survive without mass heal once geared up.

[Matuse]

GTWF adds 12.5% DPS, how can you go without this?

How? Because there are only so many feats, and when you are mostly casting and slightly hitting, more of them go on the casting side than the hitting side.

My version of this build (predating Impact's first post by 4 months) gets by just fine with only TWF...No I or G. Hell, my drow version doesn't even have power attack. And yet stuff dies just fine.

You need heighten to hit evasion mobs with BB, how can you go without this?

This build can't hit evasion monsters, even with heighten. Heighten is only 3 DC. Shavarath Bezekiras and trog archers still only fail their saves on a 1 even with Heighten going. To get those guys, you need 6-8 more wisdom, Heighten, SF: Evocation...that's not what this build does.

Know a secret? All those evaders can have their heads cut off. Problem solved.

All that said, I don't know how you manage to choose between offensive, buffing and healing spells.

Because most divine spells are worthless trash. It's only at level 6 where you have to make hard choices about which spells to take. 8 and 9 have SOME tempting options, but still not difficult. Most of the rest, I end up taking at least one spell that simply never gets used because there isn't anything that's actually good.

[wax_on_wax_off]

How? Because there are only so many feats, and when you are mostly casting and slightly hitting, more of them go on the casting side than the hitting side.

My version of this build (predating Impact's first post by 4 months) gets by just fine with only TWF...No I or G. Hell, my drow version doesn't even have power attack. And yet stuff dies just fine.



Because most divine spells are worthless trash. It's only at level 6 where you have to make hard choices about which spells to take. 8 and 9 have SOME tempting options, but still not difficult. Most of the rest, I end up taking at least one spell that simply never gets used because there isn't anything that's actually good.

I'm fine with Caster FvS who wants to hit occasionally but Impaqt's suggestion is "while this guys does not provide Maximum Casting or Maximum Melee DPS, hes very close on both levels" which is so far from the truth that this build couldn't fill a DPS spot or a CC/healer spot in an epic quest in good faith. No worries about raids, any FvS with 17 levels and 18 charisma can heal a majority of raids if geared correctly and played well but when it comes to epic quests you either need to be able to provide some meaningful CC (hard for a divine when competing with bards) or some meaningful DPS and this build provides neither.

I'm sure this build would be a blast to level from 1 to 20 and then to run normal shroud runs and I'm sure you could be carried through many other quests (it's hard to fail on a divine with mass heal afterall) but this isn't exactly a build designed for end game content and as far as the rest of the game goes there isn't any challenge anyway so why build for it in the first place?

I really want to like a build like this. I've tried to make borderline competent builds in a variety of contexts including WSS radiant servant cleric, AA cleric, intimidate monk, intimidate cleric and more. In the end though the reality is that some of these builds are possible without being gimp and some of them aren't, the trick is to be able to tell the difference. Importantly, there are thresholds that need to be reached to pass from the gimp zone into the viable zone and I don't think this Superior Soul succeeds in either the DPS or the CC department. What is left is healing and blade barrier which is fine if that is what you are in to.

[Impaqt]

A majority of the mobs that I whack in epics don't need destruction/improved destruction on account of them being held/stunned. Power Attack is absolutely critical to doing decent DPS in epics due to the prevalence of the hold/stun strategy against trash. I actually really enjoy the combo of power attack + destruction (on armour preferably) with maybe an improved destruction in the offhand. Either way, power attack is still critical.

GTWF adds 12.5% DPS, how can you go without this?

You need heighten to hit evasion mobs with BB, how can you go without this?

Simply put there are many many ways that you could build a Favoured Soul to have 30%+ DPS while still fulfilling your primary objectives. Examples might include a pure half-orc THF twitch FvS or an 18 FvS/2 monk w/ scimitars or handwraps. Both of these builds could have similar stats and level ups as your build but have a higher AB, higher DPS and better feat selection (resulting in better spellcasting).

All that said, I don't know how you manage to choose between offensive, buffing and healing spells. On my pure melee strength based FvS I found it hard enough to fit in critical buffs with my minimal choice of offensive spells (blade barrier, holy aura, energy drain and searing light). I have no idea how you manage it on your build so hats off to you for that. I have figured out that if I did roll up an 18 FvS / 2 monk wisdom build that I would probably take energy drain as my sole level 9 spell as it is possible to survive without mass heal once geared up.

You sound like you do nothing but solo Epic quests...

I solo farm quite a bit, but most of the time I'm in a group.

Against held mobs, I find a Shadow Staff or Dreamspiter to be more than enough. Against Red and Purple named, I find my Destruction/Improved Destruction combo are an excellent help to the party.

5 more points of damage really doesn't amount to much for a FvS. Especially a build like this where it would result in 25% more misses.

THis is a very flexible build. It solos well and does what is needed when in a group.

I dont feel I need to be everying wrapped up in one package. I'm part of a solid guild where teamwork is prevalent. I dont always need every buff and they certainly dont rely on me for DPS. I'm bonus dps.

[Minttunator]

I've been away from the game and see that half-elves have been added, which makes me wonder - how would a half-elf work with this build instead of a human?

It seems the enhancements are mostly similar, so I guess it comes down to the human bonus feat versus a half-elf's Dilettante feat... are any of the Dilettante feats (and the accompanying enhancements) worth giving up something like Empower or GTWF in the context of this build?

To answer my own question, I guess the only decent Dilettante feat for this build could be the Barbarian one, but that's probably not worth giving up the human bonus feat, which would be used for increasing damage output through Empower or GTWF.

[wax_on_wax_off]

You sound like you do nothing but solo Epic quests...

I solo farm quite a bit, but most of the time I'm in a group.

Against held mobs, I find a Shadow Staff or Dreamspiter to be more than enough. Against Red and Purple named, I find my Destruction/Improved Destruction combo are an excellent help to the party.

5 more points of damage really doesn't amount to much for a FvS. Especially a build like this where it would result in 25% more misses.

THis is a very flexible build. It solos well and does what is needed when in a group.

I dont feel I need to be everying wrapped up in one package. I'm part of a solid guild where teamwork is prevalent. I dont always need every buff and they certainly dont rely on me for DPS. I'm bonus dps.

So in a group doing epic quests what are you relied on for? Healing?
I read a recent thread lately complaining that divines (rightly imo) need to be improved to be viable in epics when compared with bards who can comfortably heal an epic quest while bringing useful CC as well. The conclusion is that a pure healer in an epic quest is a waste of a party slot and that if you want to really pull your weight you need to either bring some useful DPS (at least 75% of a pure DPS build) or some useful CC (which is difficult enough on a FvS); of which, in an epic context, your build has neither. I guess this is what my criticisms are aimed at as of course a Superior Soul will be an excellent addition to any raid group assuming a decent pilot.
A monk splash could see an improvement of 4 DC on your offensive spells (water stance + heighten) + give 15/20 DPS more (power attack w/ TWF or THF respectively) against held mobs with very little cost. Half-elf with rogue dilettante with handwraps or scimitars would see a jump in DPS of something like 30%. These are just some examples anyway.
All that said, I doubt that you would ever want for a group with any healer build due to simple scarcity of healers in general.

[Impaqt]

So in a group doing epic quests what are you relied on for? Healing?
I read a recent thread lately complaining that divines (rightly imo) need to be improved to be viable in epics when compared with bards who can comfortably heal an epic quest while bringing useful CC as well.

lol..... Sorry. Now you are getting silly.
Please link the thread.. I need to see that.
you've now gone beyond "I'm such an uber soloer", and now just sound like some uber wannabe at this point. while a well played bard can indeed provide decent healing, the vast majority of groups are much better served by a FvS or Cleric.

The conclusion is that a pure healer in an epic quest is a waste of a party slot and that if you want to really pull your weight you need to either bring some useful DPS (at least 75% of a pure DPS build) or some useful CC (which is difficult enough on a FvS); of which, in an epic context, your build has neither. I guess this is what my criticisms are aimed at as of course a Superior Soul will be an excellent addition to any raid group assuming a decent pilot.

I buff, I heal, I destruct/Improved destruction, I use a Shadow Staff, and sometimes, I'll even whip out my Dual Min II's and just DPS. I'm not sure why you find that concept so hard to grasp.

A monk splash could see an improvement of 4 DC on your offensive spells (water stance + heighten) + give 15/20 DPS more (power attack w/ TWF or THF respectively) against held mobs with very little cost. Half-elf with rogue dilettante with handwraps or scimitars would see a jump in DPS of something like 30%. These are just some examples anyway.
All that said, I doubt that you would ever want for a group with any healer build due to simple scarcity of healers in general.

The splash can work, but int he end your just trading deficiencies.... I'l much rather have the extra Spell Slots, SPell Penn, Capstone, and DR.

[wax_on_wax_off]

lol..... Sorry. Now you are getting silly.
Please link the thread.. I need to see that.
you've now gone beyond "I'm such an uber soloer", and now just sound like some uber wannabe at this point. while a well played bard can indeed provide decent healing, the vast majority of groups are much better served by a FvS or Cleric.

This is the thread.

This is a quote that I pulled out of it:

A Bard can provide all necessary healing for many epics, better buffs and better personal DPS. The issue is not whether or not a divine can or should out-DPS a melee. It's about what else can they bring into most epics.

I'm not some elitist epic soloing jerk at all, please don't get the wrong impression. I much prefer company, I like Epics and just want to bring a valuable character to an epic group, I'm not elitist; my guild is not as uber as yours and I happily run with lots of new players and help out or not as they prefer and I'm not a wannabe, I do the epics, I contribute with a divine that can heal and bring worthwhile DPS (healing epic devil assault without pots is one of my better accomplishments). I also know my limitations and want to improve as a player; both my skills, equipment and builds.

A woo-woo stick is fine to swing and it does help the party but wind stance/power attack would make you better at it, GTWF and power attack opens the possibility to be wielding dual heavy picks and actually kill things. Power attack will add 40 DPS with woo-woo stick and 60 DPS with dual picks when autocritting in epic.

I buff, I heal, I destruct/Improved destruction, I use a Shadow Staff, and sometimes, I'll even whip out my Dual Min II's and just DPS. I'm not sure why you find that concept so hard to grasp.

I don't find it hard to grasp, the first character that I ever rolled up was a cleric who could have done this just as well, however, he was such a gimp that I deleted him. This build is fun to level up and competent at raids but leveling up is fun anyway and any FvS can be competent at raiding. How is that concept?

The splash can work, but int he end your just trading deficiencies.... I'l much rather have the extra Spell Slots, SPell Penn, Capstone, and DR.

This is just the conclusion that I came to from playing other hybrid divines and my melee FvS. On your side of the equation you have spell slots (Mass Heal or Energy Drain is the hardest choice, possibly gear dependent), Spell Pen (not going to matter if you don't have heighten anyway), DR (it's great, no doubt), Capstone (interchangeable with heal scrolls but it is awesome). On the other side of the equation you have 4 to 8 bonus to your spell DC (water stance + heighten on blade barrier and hold person), evasion (equal in many contexts in value to level 20 DR) and ~10%+ DPS boost with power attack or GTWF not to mention all the other goodies that monk brings (better DPS with handwraps,