Couple ideas to boost turning at higher levels

[redoubt]

You rarely see clerics attempt to turn undead past level 8 or so and very rarely a turning spec'd cleric. I believe this is because mob hit dice scales up much faster than the cleric (or paladin) can gain turning prowess. I've tried to think up a couple ideas of how to improve turning without the need to make a pass over all the undead mobs, but rather by altering a couple feats/enhancements.

Imp Turning Feat:
Make this scale. A couple options for this would be:
6 point scale: This feat adds 1 cleric/paladin level for turning calculations and another at 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20 cleric/paladin levels.
5 poitn scale: This feat adds 1 cleric/paladin level for turning calculations and another at 5, 10, 15, 20.
The feat could also be made on a 4 point scale. I think this would make the feat much more valuable as it remains somewhat useful at high level where the undead have many more hit die.

Imp Turning Enhancements:
Imp turning I: 1 AP, this enhancement adds 1 cleric/paladin level for turning calculations.
Imp turning II: 2 AP, this enhancement adds 2 cleric/paladin levels for turning calculations. This stacks with IT1 brining the total to 3.
Imp turning III: 3 AP, this enhancement adds 3 cleric/paladin levels for turning calculations. This stacks for a total of 6.
Imp turning IV. 4 AP, this enhancement adds 4 cleric/paladin levels for turning calculations. This stacks for a total of 10.
This is different than most enhancement chains in terms of cost per point gained. This is intentional because of the rate at which undead hit die scale.

Seek eternal rest spell:
Make it scale. Start at the current +4 sacred bonus, then add 1 sacred bonus per 3 cleric levels. Then let the spell stack with the highest item worn.

I'm hoping that one, some or all of these are easier to do than adjusting the hit die of all undead. i.e. By focusing on one feat, one enhancement chain and one spell instead of a full mob pass.

Discuss.

[theboyftw]

/signed. Clerics were designed to turn undead. Their lack of effectiveness is mind blowing.

[Angelus_dead]

Seek eternal rest spell:
Make it scale. Start at the current +4 sacred bonus, then add 1 sacred bonus per 3 cleric levels. Then let the spell stack with the highest item worn.

That kind of scaling is typically a mistake: a +X bonus on a D20 should be useful at low or high level.

Here are my three suggestions to improve turning:
1. Give it an extra debuff effect which reduces the undead's attack, damage, and saves. The penalty is -4 if the turn works and -2 if it failed. The key point is that even boss undead who are immune to being turned can take this debuff.

2. Create a new enhancement Relentless Turning. It's an active ability with a spellpoint cost and 30 seconds of cooldown which triggers Turn Undead without using up a "Turn" charge. 1 AP, requires Imp Turning or Extra Turning.

3. Give Divine Light an extra debuff so that for 15 seconds the victim takes an extra 50% or 100% damage from Light.

[Angelus_dead]

Clerics were designed to turn undead.

No, no really they weren't. Turning undead was not (and should not be) a major focus of the Cleric class. It should be a side benefit.

[redoubt]

That kind of scaling is typically a mistake: a +X bonus on a D20 should be useful at low or high level.

Here are my three suggestions to improve turning:
1. Give it an extra debuff effect which reduces the undead's attack, damage, and saves. The penalty is -4 if the turn works and -2 if it failed. The key point is that even boss undead who are immune to being turned can take this debuff.

2. Create a new enhancement Relentless Turning. It's an active ability with a spellpoint cost and 30 seconds of cooldown which triggers Turn Undead without using up a "Turn" charge. 1 AP, requires Imp Turning or Extra Turning.

3. Give Divine Light an extra debuff so that for 15 seconds the victim takes an extra 50% or 100% damage from Light.

I'm not on the forums as much these days, so long time between posts here... anyway...

I'm not sure how these ideas boost turning.
1. The debuff could be nice but it does nothing to account for the massive increase in hit dice that mobs have as levels go up.
2. The sp cost turn also does nothing to change the effectivness of turning, only gives you more of them.
3. While divine light is cool, I don't see how it affects turning either. (Unless you including because it consumes a turn, but then we could talk about DVs and DHs as well, but those would also be off topic.)

Your first statement is really most important:

That kind of scaling is typically a mistake: a +X bonus on a D20 should be useful at low or high level.

Two this really strike me from it.
1. You say typically a mistake. Right, typically a mistake. In this instance (and really will all hit die and hit point limited spells) the apparantly logrithmic hit die scaling of mobs makes this that work at low level become useless at high level. Because I'm trying to present a solution to a problem where the corresponding "save" scales differently that most things do, I presented a non-typical solution.

2. you said a +x bonus should be useful at low or high level. Sadly it is not in this case. In some things it is. But for turning undead the static bonus simply does not keep up enough to be useful. When you add +1 to a casters DC it is still useful at high levels because of the way those saves increase. Not so with turning.

Finally, why should turning not be the focus of a cleric? Cannot a cleric be a hunter of the undead? I realize many people hate clerics who are not healbots, but what is wrong with a cleric being an excellent healer and also really good at using divine influence to destroy undead. (Now before you say that turning is really about "fearing" the undead and that destruction is a bonus, consider how most people feel about fearsome armors these days. Most hate it because they have to chase the mobs now. Same with turning. Noone wants to chase the 3 scared skellies that have to be killed to open the magic door. In a game like ours, we want to kill them. Its more fun.)