Offer Wall Update

[woundead85]

All this scam/trick 'rewards' will never work in the long run. Untargeted ads, powered on a very low security level will only bring this to the point where Facebook/MySpace are standing right now. Surely, there are tons of people who won't touch these. But for every 1 who won't there's always 1 who will. And in most cases the one who will could well cover the expenses of those who didn't touch the ad. All those SMS recurring payrolls, 'free' 200$ CD-sets with no return value whatsoever.
Turbine, look at yourself a year ago. You were struggling, you listened to constructive opinions of those who don't get payed by you (quite the opposite), which lead you to a point where you stand now - with a great product to serve to your players! Now, you wouldn't want to spoil that. Look, how many of those who started as F2P ended up as VIPs? Surely, small percentage, but it's an added dedicated player base. A player base who will praise and recommend this product to everyone he knows. And still, that small percentage is at least twice as large as your year-ago player base!
I probably will never see your Income/Expense reports, but I really think that you have very much noticable sky-high uprate in the recent year. And, as I said, at least 75% growth. This is purely my guess, from playing on different servers and poking here and there. Something tells me you can cover all of your expenses now, and even make a profit - a word you had to google up just last year.
Please, by all means - don't ever try doing something like that without checking up with your said dedicated fanbase.
You're looking for more ways? I got few ideas.
1) Leave it as it is right now. You're doing pretty good, as it seems. Although again, those financial reports would really help my guesses.
2) F2P accounts getting short video ad right before they log in. This has been tested before in numerous places - I watch Comedy Central, and I can stand 30 second ad every 15 minutes. After all - I'm satisfied with those 15 minutes of content I get. Of course, you can't make them watch it every 15 minutes, F2P will dump the game because of these annoyances. But every now and then they get a boot from the world, don't they? Actually, interesting idea right here.
3) Those broccoli banners on your own website... Not a lot of money, but still... I wouldn't like to see anything that's not DDO related on these pages, but if you're already here - why get advertising which will lead you back here again? Check the prices on banner space.
Here you go - few ideas off the top of my head before I head to sleep. I'm sure some can do better with that. But you have to remember - don't bite the hand that fed you when you were in a struggle. Maybe, just maybe we'll see some implementation that will let VIPs feel like VIPs - ad-free. This model is working wonders in internet industry.
Way to go.

[Pfold]

First I would like to say 'Awesome Job!' to Turbine for stepping up and resolving the issues with the offer wall. As stated here in this post many times - it takes guts to admit you've screwed up, you did that and you have resolved the issue. THANK YOU. I would also like to thank Gol for being determined in his cause and alerting everyone. Yes it was something a Turbine staff member should have done before the offer was even made public but I will address that later on, Turbine - give this man a job.

Second, I can appreciate the fact that Turbine is trying to make profit on a largely Free To Play game. 90% of the players that I've come across are Free To Play with no intention of purchasing points nor ever giving Turbine one cent. Turbine has to accomodate for this player base by trying to find new ways of income. You can download the game for free, so there is no profit to be made from game sales when new expansions are released (WoW wants to charge you a tidy sum of $40 and up for each of their expansions, add the $15 a month fee that is NOT optional and there you have a nice profit from a large player base.) because the majority of the player base want everything for nothing. I am a VIP, and while there were some issues with receiving my monthly points for April, I can appreciate the fact that the Premium and VIP crowd are what support the new content but I do not think that we cover a large portion of their player base. Turbine is trying to compensate for that, and help out those who are to cheap or financially unable with earning Turbine points. Sure it could have been done through a different avenue, and I'm sure Turbine regrets making the decision to go with the 'Wall O' Scammer Terror' but some of you are acting as though you have never made a mistake. They admitted it and have done their best to resolve the issue and ease everyone's mind.

I, for one, enjoy the game and am grown up enough to let sleeping dogs lie and move on. The people who are now wanting to critique every little banner ad and such need to move on. Stop slamming a company for trying to be a profitable company and find another MMORPG to float your boat. This is a very clean MMORPG - I do not see the monetary spam that pollutes alot of other games, I have yet to see any bots (personally a first for me in this genre), nor hacks. Their competitors could learn ALOT from them in that area.

There's a big difference between one person making an error and an entire company making one. Dress it how you like but this is what happened. My point of the banner ads was merely to point out that they obviously are trying to squeeze every last nickel from whatever they can without due regard.

I pay Blizzard a comparable amount of money and I don't have to fear that any information I directly entrust with them will be sent elsewhere without my authorization, good intentions or not. You also forgot the 8$ for an authenticator while tallying up what WoW charges for things btw.

As far as seeing monetary spams in game, I see it regularly. Actually I was quite surprised to see a gold spammer on Argo the other day. Unlike WoW, I cannot enable an addon to remedy this. While I may not have extensively played as many MMO's as others may have I'm sure that they are a regular fixture in every game in some way or sort.

Hacks in WoW? Unless you're on a private server I don't this happening. It would degrade their product and in turn cost them money.

Am I disagreeing that Turbine should try to be profitable? Absolutely not. What I am merely suggesting that use of common sense be utilized when making decisions that could invariably alienate your entire customer base.

While you may be all 'grown up' and think you've figured the world out or feel your opinion is worth more or less than anyone else's then you are clearly wrong. In essence you're complaining about my complaining.

How funny is that sir?

[rest]

On a first name basis, huh? Is it that level of familiarity that gives you the right to act like a jerk on the forum?

It's in her sig, and she signs posts like that.

And no, first name basis doesn't give me the right to act like a jerk on the forums. I granted that special right to myself

[Fenrisulven6]

But Turbine shouldn't hide behind: "we dont sell your info, but we have no control over SuperRewards selling it".

Quit pushing responsibility down the chain.

Sever all ties with SuperRewards.

[smatt]

All this scam/trick 'rewards' will never work in the long run. Untargeted ads, powered on a very low security level will only bring this to the point where Facebook/MySpace are standing right now. Surely, there are tons of people who won't touch these. But for every 1 who won't there's always 1 who will. And in most cases the one who will could well cover the expenses of those who didn't touch the ad. All those SMS recurring payrolls, 'free' 200$ CD-sets with no return value whatsoever.

Wrong it's already a multi-billion dollar industry..... It's becoming "The Way" to monetize the FtP play model.

Turbine, look at yourself a year ago. You were struggling, you listened to constructive opinions of those who don't get payed by you (quite the opposite), which lead you to a point where you stand now - with a great product to serve to your players! Now, you wouldn't want to spoil that. Look, how many of those who started as F2P ended up as VIPs? Surely, small percentage, but it's an added dedicated player base. A player base who will praise and recommend this product to everyone he knows. And still, that small percentage is at least twice as large as your year-ago player base!

Top be fair to Turbine the Free to play model was HATED by just about everybody on the forums darned near everytime it's come up in the past, Pre-DDO-EU So no it wasnt' the customers who gave them the idea.

[Daehawk]

Thanks Marketroid.

The Wall has Fallen.

Now back to your regularly scheduled drama.

Look forward to the next idea for TP you can come out with.

[zorander6]

But Turbine shouldn't hide behind: "we dont sell your info, but we have no control over SuperRewards selling it".

Quit pushing responsibility down the chain.

Sever all ties with SuperRewards.

They have, (at least to the point of killing the offer wall and making new policies) however the information that has been sent to super-rewards via people completing offers is not in Turbine's control.

[chodelord]

Good job removing the wall, good responsiveness by the company and customer reps.

Next TP sale I will be purchasing at least $10-20 more, even though I don't need them.

[kormasta]

Thank you, Turbine, for taking action. I think just about everyone believes this post was needed and the action taken was appropriate (being that the wall was removed). If the intent for it was meant as a benefit, and many persons sought to utilize it as intended, then readdressing the method of use and the commerce intended is needed and helpful.

Two basic replies came from this that I noticed. One is thankful of the action and the others are overwhelmingly critical. I am sure that it is annoying to have things happen, but within reason, email addresses are VERY public. While an element of it is personal, the address itself is not personally identification information. Anyone gathering personal information will ask for name, maybe SSN, sometimes your home address if it is involved in the transactions, but email addresses are simply for communication. If they were assigned to a person like an SSN, I would agree with you, but since they aren't....

Your information exists out there, and anyone caring to look for it will find it. Keep a password secure, however, can be very critical.

[Pwesiela]

Based on your feedback, we’re stepping away from the ‘Offer’ category for now. We’ll keep exploring alternate ways for players who want points to get them. We’ll also continue to innovate in pricing and accessibility because that’s who we are. As of today, the Offer Wall is coming down. We’ll collect all the feedback we’ve received over the last few days and will use it to guide future decisions.

[Daehawk]

But Turbine shouldn't hide behind: "we dont sell your info, but we have no control over SuperRewards selling it".

As a result, the Super Rewards team has already removed the e-mail addresses from their user database.

what info?

[Oreg]

Thanks for the apology Turbine and for listening in this case. I did not view the wall so I cannot comment on the validity of your claims but I am glad it is gone.

[VeloxLupa]

Wow.... I don't check the forums or game for a week and everything goes crazy. I'm glad to have shown up after the storm.

While the initial portion of this mess was one gigantic Charlie Foxtrot on Turbine's behalf, I am glad to see that it took them less than 48 hours to figure out the supreme idiocy of the implementation. I am even more impressed with the intellect and acumen of the community!

We must be ever vigilant; it's obvious that there is some degree of attention paid to our voices. Let's use that to our advantage to help continue to make DDO the absolute best experience it can be. Pitchforks and torches do have some merit at times.

[scampb]

It is funny how people can complain about something so vehemently, get their issue resolved, and still complain about it.Thanks Turbine for removing the wall and thanks for listening. I feel better about my $30 mos. (two accounts) and the money I spend on points. This is indeed the type of company I want to associate with. One that can try new things, realize when a mistake is made, correct said mistake, APOLOGIZE to their supporter and move on. Good job.

[Fenrisulven6]

They have, (at least to the point of killing the offer wall and making new policies)

ie. they have "for now", and the next scam will be more subtle.

however the information that has been sent to super-rewards via people completing offers is not in Turbine's control.

No. If Turbine is stlll partnered with SuperScam, then they are responsible for any damage done by SuperScam. Its a cop out for them to pretend they don't know whats going to happen to their customers info after they introduce their customer to SuperScam.

Sever all ties with SuperRewards.

[dunklezhan]

Recently, we opened an Offer Wall with a selection of ads that got a strong negative response. There were also technical issues that raised valid questions about security. Overall it was a poor user experience that was not up to our standards, and for this we apologize.

This sounds awfully like they're apologising for the user experience, and not for the poor decision making and potential security risk.

But its probably as far as the liability lawyers will let them go. So apology for my 'user experience' accepted, but I will be thinking twice about even looking at any special offers turbine set up in the future that aren't a straight exchange of cash for points in the in game store.

[Eelario]

EDIT: Random thought - TPs for confirmed bug reports on live or Llamania?

/signed

I've submitted 75+ bug reports in the last few months and all for Korthos, Harbor and Marketplace zones & quests only. I got bored/frustrated with the bug reporting mechanic...again. If there were an incentive, I'd be much more likely to report the bugs in the houses and elsewhere.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Turbine made a HUGE mistake by going with the offer wall route, and an even bigger mistake by handing over our email addresses.

That said... They have now, and fairly quickly in corporate time, made the correct decision.

Thanks to all the Turbine employees who backed the fans on this one!

And please players, give the mods break...they listened...its too late to undo the past...hopefully they have learned for the future...calm is good.

[ghostegg]

One Line Ads at Forum. Simple and better than any other model, like google does.

[Borror0]

But Turbine shouldn't hide behind: "we dont sell your info, but we have no control over SuperRewards selling it".

Actually, it sounds like it's "we didn't sell your info and if SuperRewards sells it we're going to sue them for breach of contract."