Offer Wall Update

[pgm152]

I don't think Turbine approached the wall with an evil gleam in their eye, they honestly thought this could be a win for everyone.

You answer survey for a 3rd party.
3rd party pays Turbine with real life money. Turbine wins.
Turbine gives you free DDO points. You win.
3rd party finally gets to find out which snack chip gamers prefer. 3rd party wins.

The implementation killed it with the initial scummy 3rd parties, their malware, and privacy concerns. Would players accept the wall if it comes back some day with these issues all handled very well? Hard to say.

[DreadDormammu]

I'm just curious what your standard of proof is, because you keep thowing around the term "unsubstantiated claims"

Posts like this are good!

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=super+rewards

without explaining what proof you require. Do you expect the affected users to bring you their hard drives? That doesn't seem reasonable. You wont accept the word of players who claim they were affected, fine. But you seem to set the burden of proof at a level no one can reasonable meet. So again, what would you accept as evidence?

Quite frankly, right now I would take just about any post from any player that states "I clicked on Super Rewards and THIS happened." (Whatever "THIS" is.) I seem to be having some difficulty finding them, but I haven't spent a LOT of time looking yet.

[DreadDormammu]

Fine, you think someone does an inept job should maintain their employment. Great.

Yeah, great! Now all you have to do is demonstrate that:

-Turbine hired exactly one person to generate revenue for the company

-this was the only task assigned to him or her

-the Offer Wall was their only contribution

-they have offered nothing else meaningful to the company

If you can meet all of this criteria, I might be willing to hear you out about how inept this person was at their job. What is their name again? YOU DON'T KNOW? What facts do you actually have in this situation?

You cannot define how they were exactly within the parameter of the privacy policy but yet claim everything else said in direct contrast to your own opinion is 'unsubstantiated' while not substanstiating any of your own claims.

That's not how logic works! *YOU* assert the breach of confidentiality. The burden of proof is on YOU to support this assertion. An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I'm sorry, but if you can't see the correlation between customers piping up crying foul and then witnessing the knee jerk reaction by Turbine in pulling it down then I don't know what to tell you.

Correlation does not imply causation. You're new to this, aren't you?

[Kalari]

Well besides Gol's thread which showed the philshing emails that ran rampant from those who just went to the wall's website.

Jasmine has a very good post about the number of viruses that hit her registry from the offer wall.

Dont know if that counts for enough proof for you but it was enough to me to justify not clicking on the link (though to be honest the moment they said Super Rewards I stayed away) I may like playing the products Turbine puts out if I didnt I wouldnt be here still. But I learned a while ago not to put too much faith in business.

In profits we trust is more of a motto then anything when I think of big companies even the ones whose products I utilize. I accept their apology because they could have easily have just taken down the wall (due to an error) nuked these threads and tried to cover it all up. Instead they manned up and said "hey we didnt check this quite thoroughly and heard you when you said what happened as a result of using our "offer wall" Now you can continue to be butt hurt by this or we can move on and focus on other things we want for this game since they are "listening" right?

[Drfirewater79]

Did not constitute a "technical" breach of privacy policy? Really?

Within your EULA, you force the player base to accept before they can even log in, this EULA states very explicitly, do not share your account information with anyone. That includes username, email and the rest of the information required to create an account to play DDO. So if we cannot share it even within households, do not even deny because I have seen people banned for 3 days from game because of it, how does giving account names and account emails differ? Just because it's Turbine selling it to someone else, instead of players?

Also, just to see if this is clear, even before the offer wall was implimented, this information was already sold to these companies, prior to our knowledge?

FIrst let me say ty marketroid for dealing with this swiftly

and to you my friend lerincho

isnt it too bad that we cannot give turbine a 3 day ban from the game for breaking eula ?

all kidding aside ... it was a business move that was a bad business move .... haven't we come to expect bad business moves by turbine (at least from the customers perspective)?

they put stuff on the store at dumb prices that just make you want to quit rather then give in to (yes i am subject to the stupid purchase myself but would have spent 100$'s of dollars if the prices where better).

there slogan however is another joke

powered by the fans

that has to be explained to me in great detail

the fans have complained time and time again about the pricing on the store ... nothing is done

the fans have complained time and time again about not having greensteel handwraps and how unbalanced it is for monks not to have them.

the fans have complained time and time again about dumb changes to missions and raids that already exist and low and behold they did it again with current changes to von 6 that has made the raid un-doable by a large portion of the community and thus the raid went from long and annoying to prep and thus not run much .. to fail 90% of the time in pugs and thus not run much (maybe even less)

i cant think of too many times turbine has listened ...

i guess they listened when people complained about pale master ... oh wait they didnt they just gimped it to the point of it being stupid and unwanted then tried to fix there mistakes by giving us spells that dont actually make the pre worth while especially since no word of them being on scroll which is the big problem with the pre (no consumable healing) and sets it apart from all other classes and pre's as the only one that prevents healing through consumables.

I guess they listened when it comes to housing ... but wait ...its not out yet so we will have to see how they manage to put a sour taste in our mouths when it actually comes out (i have my theories based on the 4 other mmos i have played but will hold my tounge here cause this isnt about unprovable stupidity ... just the stuff we know)

I know they never listen to the people who want to be able to repeat shadow crypt.
I personally ran all the prep quests and it wouldnt let me do shadow crypt even after preping for it when i sent a Ticket in they told me too bad ... love how turbine listens to its fans.

Personally i have found more instances where turbine has focused on things that annoy or flat out anger fans then actually listen to fans ...

heres another one ... how about scrolls being re-added to the game ... cant even get a dev comment on that one.

the truth of there slogan should read

Powered by our greed

or

hated by our fans

both are alot closer to the truth then the current slogan.

hey ... prove me wrong turbine ... i dare you.

go through any of the above mentioned topics and tell me how you listen to the fans about them?

[DreadDormammu]

Who said anything about malware? Am I tripping or something? Not once has the word malware been mentioned by myself.

It was not the intention of my post to attribute assertions of malware to you specifically. If it looked that way, I apologize.

[DreadDormammu]

FIrst let me say ty marketroid for dealing with this swiftly

and to you my friend lerincho

isnt it too bad that we cannot give turbine a 3 day ban from the game for breaking eula ?

all kidding aside ... it was a business move that was a bad business move .... haven't we come to expect bad business moves by turbine (at least from the customers perspective)?

they put stuff on the store at dumb prices that just make you want to quit rather then give in to (yes i am subject to the stupid purchase myself but would have spent 100$'s of dollars if the prices where better).

there slogan however is another joke

powered by the fans

that has to be explained to me in great detail

the fans have complained time and time again about the pricing on the store ... nothing is done

the fans have complained time and time again about not having greensteel handwraps and how unbalanced it is for monks not to have them.

the fans have complained time and time again about dumb changes to missions and raids that already exist and low and behold they did it again with current changes to von 6 that has made the raid un-doable by a large portion of the community and thus the raid went from long and annoying to prep and thus not run much .. to fail 90% of the time in pugs and thus not run much (maybe even less)

i cant think of too many times turbine has listened ...

i guess they listened when people complained about pale master ... oh wait they didnt they just gimped it to the point of it being stupid and unwanted then tried to fix there mistakes by giving us spells that dont actually make the pre worth while especially since no word of them being on scroll which is the big problem with the pre (no consumable healing) and sets it apart from all other classes and pre's as the only one that prevents healing through consumables.

I guess they listened when it comes to housing ... but wait ...its not out yet so we will have to see how they manage to put a sour taste in our mouths when it actually comes out (i have my theories based on the 4 other mmos i have played but will hold my tounge here cause this isnt about unprovable stupidity ... just the stuff we know)

I know they never listen to the people who want to be able to repeat shadow crypt.
I personally ran all the prep quests and it wouldnt let me do shadow crypt even after preping for it when i sent a Ticket in they told me too bad ... love how turbine listens to its fans.

Personally i have found more instances where turbine has focused on things that annoy or flat out anger fans then actually listen to fans ...

heres another one ... how about scrolls being re-added to the game ... cant even get a dev comment on that one.

the truth of there slogan should read

Powered by our greed

or

hated by our fans

both are alot closer to the truth then the current slogan.

hey ... prove me wrong turbine ... i dare you.

go through any of the above mentioned topics and tell me how you listen to the fans about them?

The short version of the rebuttal for this rambling nonsense is:

A few players QQing on the forums =/= immediate action needed to be taken on Turbine's part

[Ithrani]

Powered by Our Fans? Really?

You mean Powered by Our *Scams*?

OFT, at least for DDO's team. I dont see much scamming going on with the LOTRO team, which is why me and many guildmates plan on making a move. The DDO team has proved time and time again to not care about anything but increasing profits and wasting our time with quests that require tons of grind to get anything useful, on top of the fact that the DDO team is either the laziest or the most underfunded of dev teams.

[Pfold]

Yeah, great! Now all you have to do is demonstrate that:

-Turbine hired exactly one person to generate revenue for the company

-this was the only task assigned to him or her

-the Offer Wall was their only contribution

-they have offered nothing else meaningful to the company

If you can meet all of this criteria, I might be willing to hear you out about how inept this person was at their job. What is their name again? YOU DON'T KNOW? What facts do you actually have in this situation?



That's not how logic works! *YOU* assert the breach of confidentiality. The burden of proof is on YOU to support this assertion. An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.



Correlation does not imply causation. You're new to this, aren't you?

Again, did I say they hired one person for the task? No, your claim that I did is unsubastantiated. Apparently you feel we live in a world where noone is culpable for their actions. Have fun in that place.

You want proof something happened? here http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...66&postcount=1

That's where it started. Take it up with them if your feel that his claim is unsubstantiated. I'm not goingdown this road further with you because I have went out of my way to help you and I'm beginning to think it's about attention at this point.

Have a great day!

[DreadDormammu]

Well besides Gol's thread which showed the philshing emails that ran rampant from those who just went to the wall's website.

Jasmine has a very good post about the number of viruses that hit her registry from the offer wall.

Dont know if that counts for enough proof for you but it was enough to me to justify not clicking on the link (though to be honest the moment they said Super Rewards I stayed away) I may like playing the products Turbine puts out if I didnt I wouldnt be here still. But I learned a while ago not to put too much faith in business.

In profits we trust is more of a motto then anything when I think of big companies even the ones whose products I utilize. I accept their apology because they could have easily have just taken down the wall (due to an error) nuked these threads and tried to cover it all up. Instead they manned up and said "hey we didnt check this quite thoroughly and heard you when you said what happened as a result of using our "offer wall" Now you can continue to be butt hurt by this or we can move on and focus on other things we want for this game since they are "listening" right?

I am trying to find the post you are referring to. Will update when read.

[DreadDormammu]

Again, did I say they hired one person for the task? No, your claim that I did is unsubastantiated. Apparently you feel we live in a world where noone is culpable for their actions. Have fun in that place.

You want proof something happened? here http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...66&postcount=1

That's where it started. Take it up with them if your feel that his claim is unsubstantiated. I'm not goingdown this road further with you because I have went out of my way to help you and I'm beginning to think it's about attention at this point.

Have a great day!

No, YOU don't get it. I am aware of the same facts as you. What I am not aware of is how anything you have seen constitutes a violation of confidentiality. Can you please demonstrate a violation of confidentiality? (Not that I should really keep asking you this because I know you cannot.)

[Kalari]

I am trying to find the post you are referring to. Will update when read.

This is just one of them the thread is locked but I did a search (also spelt Jasimine's name wrong sorry bout that)

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...9&postcount=37


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...89#post2892789

Should give you the information she left about what happened to her registry in detail if you fish threw that thread.

[DreadDormammu]

Again, did I say they hired one person for the task? No, your claim that I did is unsubastantiated.

Not at all, you refer to the singular quite often! Look:

The fact I think firing someone isn't unreasonable in this scenario is simply this: Someone on payroll was tasked to generate more revenue. Obviously with the wall down it isn't making any money. The wall causes concern from the customer base potentially causing a loss (regardless of size) in subscriptions. Bad press ensues beyond the grasp of Turbine on other sites. Would you keep this person in your company?

Also holding someone accountable for their job is not unreasonable. What would happen if you didn't do your job? I bet you wouldn't be around very long either.
By firing someone it serves as a demonstration to the rest of the employees within said company to DO YOUR JOB CORRECTLY.

QED.

[DreadDormammu]

This is just one of them the thread is locked but I did a search (also spelt Jasimine's name wrong sorry bout that)

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...9&postcount=37


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...89#post2892789

Should give you the information she left about what happened to her registry in detail if you fish threw that thread.

Thank you for the help, I will be reading these soon.

[Murderface]

well what i truly think is that if no one would have noticed they would have changed nothing. the only real reason they are sorry is that they got caught.

Is this a Poe, or what?

uhm point of entry or poem lol

[Pfold]

I am trying to find the post you are referring to. Will update when read.

Lol I thought you read all of the pertinent info. tisk tisk.

[Murderface]

Yeah, great! Now all you have to do is demonstrate that:

-Turbine hired exactly one person to generate revenue for the company

-this was the only task assigned to him or her

-the Offer Wall was their only contribution

-they have offered nothing else meaningful to the company

If you can meet all of this criteria, I might be willing to hear you out about how inept this person was at their job. What is their name again? YOU DON'T KNOW? What facts do you actually have in this situation?



That's not how logic works! *YOU* assert the breach of confidentiality. The burden of proof is on YOU to support this assertion. An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.



Correlation does not imply causation. You're new to this, aren't you?

all involved in signing off on superscams should be fired or turn in there resignation. there is no logic in well they did good before they fd up that should outweigh the bad

nope it does not. just ask oj yeah he did entertain us with his football prowess and comedic movie roles but you see where he is now dont you

[Pfold]

Not at all, you refer to the singular quite often! Look:





QED.

Sure I concede I used a singular version while phrasing. My mistake is that I assumed you would comprehend that ultimately someone (yes person) is responsible in their company. There is always a 'buck stops here' person.

[Cyr]

Posts like this are good!

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=super+rewards



Quite frankly, right now I would take just about any post from any player that states "I clicked on Super Rewards and THIS happened." (Whatever "THIS" is.) I seem to be having some difficulty finding them, but I haven't spent a LOT of time looking yet.

Perhaps it might have been a wise step to read up on the subject before wading in late and calling into question other posters' posts as unsubstantiated.

[Pfold]

Perhaps it might have been a wise step to read up on the subject before wading in late and calling into question other posters' posts as unsubstantiated.

He/she just wants to argue. They said they read all the pertinent information relating to the subject matter and obviously didn't. Then gets called out on it and wants to argue semantics. Also they believe that in every company it's ok for an employee to lose the company money and keep their job as long as you say 'Oops. It was a mistake."

You know what Jack Burton (fictitious character who also is employed as a transporter) always says at a time like this... ... fof (full of fail =in case you don't get it)!!! lolol