Offer Wall Update

[Fenrisulven6]

I don't see anything in that post that demonstrates Turbine breaking any sort of confidentiality agreement.

[edited by Patience: You can state your case without being offensive. Please do so.] - sorry, didn't mean to offend, is there another word I can use to describe "insider posing as a player" ? - Fen

But since you "dont see anything", perhaps you could respond to this:

Main issue. Not addressed.

Where was the user agreement? No warning, no pop-ups "Viewing this link will transmit your information to a third party".

A page on Turbine's own site, with no warning or agreement to share information just by viewing a Turbine forum page.

[Pfold]

I don't see anything in that post that demonstrates Turbine breaking any sort of confidentiality agreement. Can you show me otherwise? It's your source.

"We do not control the privacy policies of third parties that have web sites linked to the Turbine Sites and Services" -Straight from the Privacy policy


"Finally, there was a lot of speculation about how information such as your username or e-mail address was being used by our commerce partners. Ultimately we chose to pass the e-mail address to our commerce partners in the URL to facilitate e-mailing receipts to players..."

-------------------------------------------------

"Turbine may elect to share personally identifiable information of users with certain business partners for marketing or other similar purposes but ONLY if the users agree to share such information. In such event, such partners will be prohibited from disclosing such information or using such information except for the limited purposes for which such users agree to share such information. "

Everything quoted is by Turbine. The matter at hand is not whether or not email addresses are personal. The matter is that they transmitted personally indentifiable data without giving the user an opportunity to grant consent. So, if they say for example, transmitted Pfold's account name and the email address that is on the account, that information identifies me and me alone. If someone tried to access an account using that information it would be my account not yours or anyone elses. How that is wrong is that while I would agree on the intentions of Turbine for providing that data to a 3rd party, no opportunity was given for the customer to decline transmitting the data, thus, breaking their own rule.

[smatt]

Well not exactly. There's no way they couldn't have known SR's notoriety or how to securely write web code.

Gol and the community realized what they were doing was wrong, and that's the only reason they stopped doing it.

Yep, and they did.... I demonstrated how easy it was to find out a bit about Adknowledge and Super Rewards, which would also give some folks somr insight into hwo the business actualyl works, what they're trying to do, and who's doing it. Sooooooo.... Life goes on.... Gol had the insight becsue that's exactly what he does... And I'm glad he stepped up to the plate with his web knowledge in this case.

I'd much rather have the pitchforks out for some NEW HIGH LEVEL CONTENT OTHER CRAPTASTIC EPIC REHASH JUNK...... OR AIRSHIPS OF FLUFF....

Or maybe....

FIX THE FRICKEN RAID INSTANCE LAG....

[smatt]

"We do not control the privacy policies of third parties that have web sites linked to the Turbine Sites and Services" -Straight from the Privacy policy


"Finally, there was a lot of speculation about how information such as your username or e-mail address was being used by our commerce partners. Ultimately we chose to pass the e-mail address to our commerce partners in the URL to facilitate e-mailing receipts to players..."

-------------------------------------------------

"Turbine may elect to share personally identifiable information of users with certain business partners for marketing or other similar purposes but ONLY if the users agree to share such information. In such event, such partners will be prohibited from disclosing such information or using such information except for the limited purposes for which such users agree to share such information. "

Everything quoted is by Turbine. The matter at hand is not whether or not email addresses are personal. The matter is that they transmitted personally indentifiable data without giving the user an opportunity to grant consent. So, if they say for example, transmitted Pfold's account name and the email address that is on the account, that information identifies me and me alone. If someone tried to access an account using that information it would be my account not yours or anyone elses. How that is wrong is that while I would agree on the intentions of Turbine for providing that data to a 3rd party, no opportunity was given for the customer to decline transmitting the data, thus, breaking their own rule.

Nice editing....... Maybe you should read the entire set of clauses surrounding this subject, and not cherry pick the ones that in your opinion, back up your claim... I think I just might've posted all that right up there above.... Seems to me, although I'm no Lawyer that specializes in such things, that they can do waht they did, from a legal standpoint....

[DreadDormammu]

Are you a Turbine sock puppet? I only ask because you have 11 total posts in your count...

But since you "dont see anything", perhaps you could respond to this:

I can read just fine (and no, I am not a "sock puppet", I am a player). You all have asserted the breach of confidentiality agreement. I am saying, "Show me how." No one has demonstrated a breach of confidentiailty agreement, just that they think there has been one. Do any of you even know the language of the confidentiality agreement? That would be an interesting place to start.

Think about this as an unbiased third party observer: What are the facts?

-Email addresses and Usernames of some (undetermined amount of) players transmitted to a third party under contract with Turbine. (Turbine admits this.)

-no substantiated reports of damages (no positive demonstration than a few players "say so")

-no substantiated breach of confidentiality

Demonstrate to me how I am wrong.

(Also, if you are terribly concerned about my post count, I have about 1200 over at the LOTRO Forums as IowaHawk. I call people out on the same kind of BS there that I see here. Everyone is so GD eager to throw Turbine under a bus, like it makes a person look "cool" or "in the know"...pathetic. You can call me Trubine Fanboi LOL if you like, but I regard myself as a rational thinking adult that is able to evaluate a situation without being swept away in the emotion of an event and the mob mentality that ensues.)

[Fenrisulven6]

(Also, if you are terribly concerned about my post count, I have about 1200 over at the LOTRO Forums as IowaHawk. I call people out on the same kind of BS there that I see here. Everyone is so GD eager to throw Turbine under a bus, like it makes a person look "cool" or "in the know"...pathetic.

You're making alot of unfounded assumptions. I'm usually the guy who bashes people who bash Turbine.

You can call me Turbine Fanboi LOL if you like, but I regard myself as a rational thinking adult that -

- that just happens to appear out of thin air to attack people who are unhappy with Turbine's "apology".

And I never called you a Fanboi. I just think its odd that after a year, this is the only thread you've bothered to post to. Smells like an employee account. You understand, yes?

[Patience]

I have cleaned up the end of this thread quite a bit to remove off-topic arguing and posts that were little more than bickering. We would appreciate it if posts stayed on-topic and within the forum guidelines. Thanks!

Meghan

[Pfold]

I can read just fine (and no, I am not a "sock puppet", I am a player). You all have asserted the breach of confidentiality agreement. I am saying, "Show me how." No one has demonstrated a breach of confidentiailty agreement, just that they think there has been one. Do any of you even know the language of the confidentiality agreement? That would be an interesting place to start.

Think about this as an unbiased third party observer: What are the facts?

-Email addresses and Usernames of some (undetermined amount of) players transmitted to a third party under contract with Turbine. (Turbine admits this.)

-no substantiated reports of damages (no positive demonstration than a few players "say so")

-no substantiated breach of confidentiality

Demonstrate to me how I am wrong.

(Also, if you are terribly concerned about my post count, I have about 1200 over at the LOTRO Forums as IowaHawk. I call people out on the same kind of BS there that I see here. Everyone is so GD eager to throw Turbine under a bus, like it makes a person look "cool" or "in the know"...pathetic. You can call me Trubine Fanboi LOL if you like, but I regard myself as a rational thinking adult that is able to evaluate a situation without being swept away in the emotion of an event and the mob mentality that ensues.)

Well, if you were absolutely correct the 'wall' would still be up now wouldn't it? As far as listening to the customers, all Turbine heard was the sound of the purse strings closing up. Enough said.

[smatt]

I have cleaned up the end of this thread quite a bit to remove off-topic arguing and posts that were little more than bickering. We would appreciate it if posts stayed on-topic and within the forum guidelines. Thanks!

Meghan

King Crimson "Elephant Talk"

Talk
It's only talk
Arguments
Agreements
Advice
Answers

Articulate announcements
It's only talk

Talk
It's only talk
Babble
Burble
Banter
Bicker bicker bicker
Brouhaha
Boulderdash
Ballyhoo
It's only talk
Back talk

Talk talk talk
It's only talk
Comments
Cliches
Commentary
Controversy
Chatter
Chit-chat
Chit-chat
Chit-chat

Conversation
Contradiction
Criticism
It's only talk
Cheap talk

Talk
Talk
It's only talk
Debates
Discussions
These are words with a D this time
Dialogue
Dualogue
Diatribe

Dissention
Declamation
Double talk
Double talk

Talk
Talk
It's all talk
Too much talk
Small talk
Talk that trash
Expressions
Editorials
Expugnations
Exclamations
Enfadulations
It's all talk
Elephant talk
Elephant talk
Elephant talk

[Murderface]

I have cleaned up the end of this thread quite a bit to remove off-topic arguing and posts that were little more than bickering. We would appreciate it if posts stayed on-topic and within the forum guidelines. Thanks!

Meghan

i clearly call for the resignation for all turbine employees who were involved with partnering dnds good name with the worst the internet has to offer

apology is not enough

resignations for all those responsible would be a more satisfactory apology

i can hear from here gary rolling in his grave for shame turbine for shame

[Pfold]

Nice editing....... Maybe you should read the entire set of clauses surrounding this subject, and not cherry pick the ones that in your opinion, back up your claim... I think I just might've posted all that right up there above.... Seems to me, although I'm no Lawyer that specializes in such things, that they can do waht they did, from a legal standpoint....

I read the whole thing and it isn't really outlined like most policies I have read. It's not cherry picking when I try to consolidate the relevant issues within the policy and try not to eye crit folks with a massive wall of text. Perhaps I overlooked something but have yet to have someone point out what IT is. Please be so kind to share.

[DreadDormammu]

Well, if you were absolutely correct the 'wall' would still be up now wouldn't it? As far as listening to the customers, all Turbine heard was the sound of the purse strings closing up. Enough said.

Baseless assertion for the lose! Even though I am most likely correct, leaving the wall up would be as dumb as a bag of rocks. I don't think unsubstantiated claims about malware is enough to fire someone over, but I do think it is enough of an impetus to suspend activity with Super Rewards until a thorough investigation of the potential problem can be made. (also known as, "being rational")

[smatt]

I read the whole thing and it isn't really outlined like most policies I have read. It's not cherry picking when I try to consolidate the relevant issues within the policy. Perhaps I overlooked something but have yet to have someone point out what IT is. Please be so kind to share.

See the bolded section....

http://www.turbine.com/news/58

Except in the cases described below, Turbine will not share personally identifiable information with any third-party unless the user agrees to such disclosure in advance.

Turbine may occasionally hire other companies to provide limited services on our behalf, including, without limitation, packaging, mailing and delivering purchases, answering customer questions about products or services, sending postal mail, providing billing and collection services, conducting customer surveys, and processing event registration. We will only provide these companies the information reasonably required to perform the applicable service, and they will be prohibited from using that information for any other purpose. When these companies collect and/or have access to the personally identifiable information you provide, we require that they protect the confidentiality of personally identifiable information they collect or have access to in the course of their engagement by Turbine.
Also, in certain cases, your personally identifiable information may be collected directly by our authorized distributors, sublicensees or subcontractors in connection with certain products or services made available through web sites operated by such companies. In these cases, the privacy policies of such companies will apply rather than Turbine's policy. If providing the information is a requirement of usage, the user may elect to decline to use that particular product or service.
Turbine may elect to share personally identifiable information of users with certain business partners for marketing or other similar purposes but only if the users agree to share such information. In such event, such partners will be prohibited from disclosing such information or using such information except for the limited purposes for which such users agree to share such information. With respect to users of products and services relating to DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINETM: StormreachTM (including, without limitation, forums and chat rooms), your personally identifiable information will be shared with Atari, Inc. or its affiliates ("Atari"). Atari's use of such information will be subject to the privacy policy of Atari found at http://www.atari.com/us/privacy and Turbine's use of such information will be subject to this Privacy Policy.
Furthermore, third-party web sites and companies with links to and from the Turbine Sites and Services may collect personally identifiable information about users. You should be aware that these third-party web sites or links may have their own information collection practices and privacy policies. We do not control the privacy policies of third parties that have web sites linked to the Turbine Sites and Services. If you click on a third-party advertisement or link, the privacy policies of the third-party web site that you link to will govern the use of your information by that web site's operator. Turbine's Privacy Policy does not extend to these external web sites and companies. Please refer directly to these companies and web sites regarding their privacy policies. We assume no responsibility or liability for the actions of such third parties with respect to their use of your information or otherwise. Accordingly, please make sure you are aware of and comfortable with the privacy policies of any third-party web sites to which you follow a link.

[DreadDormammu]

I just think its odd that after a year, this is the only thread you've bothered to post to. Smells like an employee account. You understand, yes?

Again, I *GET* your analogy, however, again, you DON'T get how wrong you are.

Listen, I ain't shy about who I am online. I will direct you to my Facebook or anything else if you really want positive evidence that I am NOT a Turbine employee. Quite opposite. I pay them for three LOTRO accounts and bought the monk class off of them.

Unless they subcontracted with P&G to move shampoo or mouthwash between Iowa City and West Branch, IA that I am not aware of, I am not, and have never been a Turbine employee.

But I did go to Boston on my honeymoon! POSSIBLE CONNECTION???

[Fenrisulven6]

I don't think unsubstantiated claims about malware is enough to fire someone over

I'm just curious what your standard of proof is, because you keep thowing around the term "unsubstantiated claims"

I wasn't aware of any evidence of actual harm done to anyone's email/computer aside from the (as of now) unsubstantiated claims made by a few players.

without explaining what proof you require. Do you expect the affected users to bring you their hard drives? That doesn't seem reasonable. You wont accept the word of players who claim they were affected, fine. But you seem to set the burden of proof at a level no one can reasonable meet. So again, what would you accept as evidence?

you DON'T get how wrong you are.... if you really want positive evidence that I am NOT a Turbine employee

Easy Tiger. Thats why I said "you understand, yes?" as in "you agree it looks suspicious and is therefore not unreasonable to question"

[Robi3.0]

The wall in theory wasn't a bad idea. It was just poorly done. If Turbine could rework it and guarantee the safe of our personal info while using it, if might eventually be worth something.

Maybe Turbine can step back from the get TP for free, and instead offer us TP for stuff we would probably be buying anyways.

For example the Netfix offer I saw in a screen-shot, was probably safe and legit. I saw another one having to do with buy shoes from a specific web site. I need a new pair and if it wasn't for the questionable safety of the Wall I probably would have checked that offer out.

While it wouldn't be a way to get free TP it would provide another option for obtaining TP.

[smatt]

The wall in theory wasn't a bad idea. It was just poorly done. If Turbine could rework it and guarantee the safe of our personal info while using it, if might eventually be worth something.

Maybe Turbine can step back from the get TP for free, and instead offer us TP for stuff we would probably be buying anyways.

For example the Netfix offer I saw in a screen-shot, was probably safe and legit. I saw another one having to do with buy shoes from a specific web site. I need a new pair and if it wasn't for the questionable safety of the Wall I probably would have checked that offer out.

While it wouldn't be a way to get free TP it would provide another option for obtaining TP.

Considering what I've found out there about all of this..... I'm betting that it will find it's way back, in some form or another. But with some major tweaking as to how it's implemented....

[DreadDormammu]

I'm just curious what your standard of proof is, because you keep thowing around the term "unsubstantiated claims"

I will show you shortly.

without explaining what proof you require. Do you expect the affected users to bring you their hard drives? That doesn't seem reasonable.

No, it isn't reasonable. Stay tuned.

Easy Tiger. Thats why I said "you understand, yes?" as in "you agree it looks suspicious and is therefore not unreasonable to question"

No, I do not agree it looks suspicious. "You understand, yes?"

[DreadDormammu]

i clearly call for the resignation for all turbine employees who were involved with partnering dnds good name with the worst the internet has to offer

apology is not enough

resignations for all those responsible would be a more satisfactory apology

i can hear from here gary rolling in his grave for shame turbine for shame

Is this a Poe, or what?

[Pfold]

Baseless assertion for the lose! Even though I am most likely correct, leaving the wall up would be as dumb as a bag of rocks. I don't think unsubstantiated claims about malware is enough to fire someone over, but I do think it is enough of an impetus to suspend activity with Super Rewards until a thorough investigation of the potential problem can be made. (also known as, "being rational")

Who said anything about malware? Am I tripping or something? Not once has the word malware been mentioned by myself. I love getting words put into my mouth around lunch time. Boy was I hungry anyways.

Fine, you think someone does an inept job should maintain their employment. Great. You cannot define how they were exactly within the parameter of the privacy policy but yet claim everything else said in direct contrast to your own opinion is 'unsubstantiated' while not substanstiating any of your own claims. I'm sorry, but if you can't see the correlation between customers piping up crying foul and then witnessing the knee jerk reaction by Turbine in pulling it down then I don't know what to tell you.