Which would you pick for your group? 12Barb/7Bard/1Rogue or 12Fighter/7B/1R?

[Crazyfruit]

Either one would be very welcome in any group I start (especially on epics), but I think the 2nd one might be the better to play.

This is coming from someone who isn't all that concerned about DPS and takes almost anyone though It won't get too far with the min/maxers who assume anything 10% less than optimal is gimp.

edit: I had a similar one to your barb/bard (more DPS focused + warchanter), it didn't get declined often at all. I stopped playing her at lvl 15ish. Having to dismiss rage every time I needed to buff or spot heal wasn't very fun

[Nezichiend]

Wow - that's pretty classy. And I'm not being sarcastic, I'm 100% serious.


Most people don't even bother to decline, they just let you sit there... waiting...

+1 Rep!

I hate that when it happens to me!

[Thrudh]

What I would do if EITHER of those builds tried getting into my groups.
1. say what the f@$%?
2. /who you to see what guild you were in
3. Talk in vent about how bad your build is
4. Decline
5. (optional) ask you about your build in case there is something I am missing (still declined )

I'd take either and finish the quest just fine... because I'm not gimp like Nezichiend...

However, both builds ARE flawed...

If you're taking 1 level of rogue, you should take 2 for evasion.... If you're going bard, you should get 8 for the extra +1 to hit/damage on your songs... plus I'd probably want haste, displacement, and good hope (although just haste and displacement is pretty good too).

You'd probably be better as a 15/3/2 Bard/Rogue/Fighter or maybe a 12/8 Fighter/Bard...

Barbarian and caster classes don't mix too well because you can't cast when raged... If you're looking for a melee/caster build, those are hard to build... Turbine has made it very difficult to build a good melee/caster with their PrEs and the abundance of magic items...

Being able to self-cast haste and displacement is very powerful.... But you can craft long-lasting Haste and Displacement clickables from the Shroud... as many as you can carry... It's fairly easy to build a straight melee with max DPS, AND have access to all the good low-level caster spells...

A 15/3/2 Bard/Rogue/fighter warchanter is probably your best bet... You'll be able to fight, and cast (well, buff), and disarm traps, and have evasion, and every group will take you...

[unbongwah]

@SteveOhio - Skill-Perform not only is a prereq for virtuoso, which itself gives me +2 to perform and +3 bard songs per day. Thats 7 per lvl + 2 extra song + 3 virtuoso = 12 per rest. Plenty for pretty much any encounter, I would think.

If all you use your songs for is Enthrallment, perhaps so. But people also expect the bard to toss out Courage and maybe Competence (too bad you can't self-buff w/it) periodically too. And there can be some pretty long hauls between shrines...

Besides, how many PUGs even know how Fascinate works, much less can coordinate their attacks to maximize its utility?

Furthermore, Evasion only works in light armor, and I was trying to go Heavy to have more survivability as a solo character. I could pass up the shield, especially in group situations, but I feel like I need the AC of heavy, at least at low levels.

You still haven't addressed how you plan to deal with arcane spell failure, though. Are you gonna change clothes every time you cast spells, or what?

At lvl 20, my character would be able to rogue for groups, and the ability to throw 12 enthrallments per rest with a resist DC of 40+1D20.

True. And at level 20, people will wonder why you didn't go for at least bard 15 to get Greatness & Heroics as well as more powerful Courage.

Oh, and then there's explaining to folks why you only have enough SPs to buff the party twice and your "long-term" buffs only last 7 minutes `cause bard 7 + no Extend spell.

This might still be a fun build to solo; and if it isn't, the only one who suffers for it is you. :-T But I have a hard time picturing it being popular in PUGs, especially in endgame: too unfocused, too many bits operating at cross-purposes.

[clericreborn]

Thank you to everyone for the input.

I guess at this point I should admit that I was feeling a bit rebellious when I heard that virtuoso was so reviled. while I can certainly see the virtues of the other two prestige enhancements, I remembered the value of crowd control in my previous MMOs, and thought that fascinate/enthrallment would be awesome.

I do admit, not everyone knows how to use it properly, but honestly proper crowd control is such a basic part of MMO combat that it kind of seems pathetic that we let people remain ignorant. Even if I scrap this character, I may have to stick to guild parties if no one knows how such things work end-game. But back to the character build:

Let's say that I throw 3 or 4 feats into THF and other combat feats, and focus my enhancements on maximizing damage. Lets also say that I drop the heavy armor, bard 7, and pick up rogue 2 and evasion. Is the remaining core of barbarian 12 not solid enough to make for a decent DPS build?

[Steveohio]

Bard is probably moreso than probably any other class best kept pure. The I doubt youll see that many bards under lvl 8 at 20, and those are probably more solo toons/self buffers more than anything. More people usually will splash an arcane to get the spells much sooner, plus the extra sp or meta feats that come along with them.

[vindicater]

Wow - that's pretty classy. And I'm not being sarcastic, I'm 100% serious.


Most people don't even bother to decline, they just let you sit there... waiting...

+1 Rep!

I would try to be just as classy but my group would probably fill before I had the time to spend on someone that was obviosly going to pike.

[unbongwah]

I guess at this point I should admit that I was feeling a bit rebellious when I heard that virtuoso was so reviled. while I can certainly see the virtues of the other two prestige enhancements, I remembered the value of crowd control in my previous MMOs, and thought that fascinate/enthrallment would be awesome.

Actually, you may have missed the point: it's not that Virtuoso is gimped; it's that your build is gimped. As I said, I really like my Virtuoso, but she's aiming for rogue 3 / bard 16 / fighter 1: i.e., mostly focused on bard, but with some trap skills, sneak attacks, and decent TWF DPS to round her out. Your build undermines your bard abilities and your DPS to be a half-a$$ed tank and so-so CCer. I try to be supportive of other people's off-the-wall build ideas, but this one is just...unwise.

I recommend refocusing your basic idea: rather than trying to be the tank, be the one who supports the tank, with Blur / Displacement, Heroism / Good Hope / Greater Heroism, Haste, Greatness, Heroics, etc. Use your CC songs to mez mobs so they can be taken down one at a time. And you should still be able to have strong trap skills plus Evasion to boost your own survivability. I recommend TWF over THF: partly for higher DPS, partly because glancing blows will un-stun a Fascinated creature.

[Nezichiend]

I'd take either and finish the quest just fine... because I'm not gimp like Nezichiend...

However, both builds ARE flawed...

I don't see anywhere in my post that indicates that I wouldn't finish if I accepted him, quite the opposite, I WOULD finish with him.
Some people take "flawed" builds (I wouldn't call it flawed, just garbage =.=)
Some people do not
I fall into the categories that do not.

And also someone who would make an atrocity like that build AND posted on the forums about it obviously does not listen and IMO that is worse than having a bad build. Someone not listening can make something much harder than having a gimp.

I don't see where you come off insulting me bro. I hope anything that was troubling you has been resolved.

[FaSo]

Sry OP i would never take ehter of thes builds in to my raids at high lvls. You are trying to do way to much. You will never have the CC and buffs like a pure bard. Will never have the dps of a pure barb. And never have the rog skills like a pure rog. Now, like some one said in a post before mine a WF wiz 18 rog 2 would work very well, max int and con and ur set. Make sure you grab insitefull reflexes so your int goes tward your reflex. Go 1. rog 2-8 wiz, 9 rog rest wiz.

Thanks

Faso

[Swedishchef]

If i didn´t know you (and didn+t know that you had the player skill to pull it off)=Decline

P.S if i knew you and you were a regular in my grps you wouldn´t build that D.S

[Solacetine]

Just to remind you as well, that Bards have arcane spell failure if not wearing the light/cloth armor. So your spells might not go through all the time with heavy armor.