Cleric/FvS comparison

[Arshaladon]

I was just looking for a comparison of the two with a list of cons and pros, im trying to decide if I would enjoy playing a FvS or if i should bother spending coin on them at all. Ive been trying all sorts of cleric builds just to gather experience and wanted to try a battle cleric next. But to me it seemed in that area a FvS would perform better. I feel that theyre a bit more melee capable. They seem to have the same healing capabilities. I feel that clerics would be the better offensive caster though, with such spell flexibility.




Heres my list of pros and cons for each.


Cleric pros-
I love the flexibilty of a cleric, as a new player It was nice that i didnt have to choose spells since with my limited knowledge i would have easily taken the wrong ones.

I liked being prepared for any and every situation so i could customize my spell list based on what was needed for that specific dungeon. I feel that many people severely underestimate this.

I found DV's very useful in conserving my sp and even others sp with divine vitality and divine healing. Not to mention i loved being able to turn undead... even if it only worked on lower level dungeons ...made me feel righteous lol.

I liked the fact that i was always wanted in a party and it made it easier to find groups to join at low levels.

Overall fun to play with many ways to play them, battle cleric, offensive caster, healbot and others. Whatever you are comfortable with.

Cleric cons-
As a new cleric and even when i became skilled i found sp conservation to be tough to learn and implement. Its certainly possible, but not always easy.

Being a cleric can be costly depending on playstyle, investing in wands, scrolls, good armor, potions adds up.

It is nice to be wanted in a group but all too often you are stalked by the PUGs, at lower levels this doesnt matter much but unfortunately a lot of the time at higher levels they can get you killed with inexperienced members.

I was dissapointed to see how at first Turn undead worked well... korthos island lets say, but very soon afterward it becomes almost useless as the undead will run away and cause more trouble or nothing will happen at all. The other DV's are still nice.

A tad bit feat starved it seems to me.




FvS- To be honest i dont know much about them, having not played them i cant judge them too much.

FvS pros-
A much larger sp pool makes gameplay easier in general since you can cast more then a cleric usually.

Ability to choose a diety...Honestly this would make more sense on a cleric if you think logically since a cleric gains their power from worship of a certain god, not like wizards who gain it through study. I guess the gods just...favor them. Rant off- anyway this is a nice ability.

Energy resistance and leap of faith are certainly nice benifits. Energy resistance doesnt seem so important but still its a perk.

Seems to have decent melee potential, maybe better then a cleric.

FvS cons-
Have a limited amount of spells since they have to choose them. Less flexibility this way




Cant really think of anything else atm, especially fvs cons since i havent played them yet, so sorry if i left anything out. Just looking for other opinions

[Visty]

short version: fav souls are better than clerics in any regards not counting turn undead which is not usefull anyway

long version: nah, cant be bothered now, result will only be the short version anyway

[Krag]

FvS cons-
Have a limited amount of spells since they have to choose them. Less flexibility this way

This is not a con unless in some distant future Turbine decides to add more useful spells.

[MrFister]

They're both perfectly fine. Play what you like.

[Arshaladon]

short version: fav souls are better than clerics in any regards not counting turn undead which is not usefull anyway

long version: nah, cant be bothered now, result will only be the short version anyway

Thanks for exactley the type of post i didnt want. You dont back up any of your claims with evidence or fact. Its like saying, chocolate ice cream is better then vanilla. So really this doesnt help me in my decision at all and you in no way persuaded me to try out FvS. Basically what im trying to say is post something constructive.

[Danmor]

You've got the most important points.
Couple of things I'd touch on:

Spell selection isn't that big a Con. Most of the Cleric spells you don't use anyways or only very situationally. Still, the flexibility is one of the reasons why I prefer my cleric over my FvS in certain quests.

Melee ability is much better on a FvS due to the available enhancements and class feats.

But still, both are fun to play. Right now Favored Souls have a bit of an edge because Turn Undead sucks and Domains are not implemented.

[Lethander]

You've got the most important points.
Couple of things I'd touch on:

Spell selection isn't that big a Con. Most of the Cleric spells you don't use anyways or only very situationally. Still, the flexibility is one of the reasons why I prefer my cleric over my FvS in certain quests.

Melee ability is much better on a FvS due to the available enhancements and class feats.

But still, both are fun to play. Right now Favored Souls have a bit of an edge because Turn Undead sucks and Domains are not implemented.

Caution:
My experience is noobish and limited.

That caveat aside, I've enjoyed the cleric's flexibility even though I could play a favored soul (for my experiences so far see my New Cleric Advice request from yesterday). I usually like to mêlée when I get a chance and so I usually take Bear's Endurance and Bull's Strength; but every time I run a Necropolis quest with guild mates I change out for Remove Curse and Remove Disease (I also have a disease immunity belt, but not everyone knows to bring such?). Favored soul wouldn't offer me such "Lemmee hit the tavern a sec" flexibility?

[cardmj1]

I was just looking for a comparison of the two with a list of cons and pros, im trying to decide if I would enjoy playing a FvS or if i should bother spending coin on them at all. Ive been trying all sorts of cleric builds just to gather experience and wanted to try a battle cleric next. But to me it seemed in that area a FvS would perform better. I feel that theyre a bit more melee capable. They seem to have the same healing capabilities. I feel that clerics would be the better offensive caster though, with such spell flexibility.




Heres my list of pros and cons for each.


Cleric pros-
I love the flexibilty of a cleric, as a new player It was nice that i didnt have to choose spells since with my limited knowledge i would have easily taken the wrong ones.

I liked being prepared for any and every situation so i could customize my spell list based on what was needed for that specific dungeon. I feel that many people severely underestimate this.

I found DV's very useful in conserving my sp and even others sp with divine vitality and divine healing. Not to mention i loved being able to turn undead... even if it only worked on lower level dungeons ...made me feel righteous lol.

I liked the fact that i was always wanted in a party and it made it easier to find groups to join at low levels.

Overall fun to play with many ways to play them, battle cleric, offensive caster, healbot and others. Whatever you are comfortable with.

Cleric cons-
As a new cleric and even when i became skilled i found sp conservation to be tough to learn and implement. Its certainly possible, but not always easy.

Being a cleric can be costly depending on playstyle, investing in wands, scrolls, good armor, potions adds up.

It is nice to be wanted in a group but all too often you are stalked by the PUGs, at lower levels this doesnt matter much but unfortunately a lot of the time at higher levels they can get you killed with inexperienced members.

I was dissapointed to see how at first Turn undead worked well... korthos island lets say, but very soon afterward it becomes almost useless as the undead will run away and cause more trouble or nothing will happen at all. The other DV's are still nice.

A tad bit feat starved it seems to me.




FvS- To be honest i dont know much about them, having not played them i cant judge them too much.

FvS pros-
A much larger sp pool makes gameplay easier in general since you can cast more then a cleric usually.

Ability to choose a diety...Honestly this would make more sense on a cleric if you think logically since a cleric gains their power from worship of a certain god, not like wizards who gain it through study. I guess the gods just...favor them. Rant off- anyway this is a nice ability.

Energy resistance and leap of faith are certainly nice benifits. Energy resistance doesnt seem so important but still its a perk.

Seems to have decent melee potential, maybe better then a cleric.

FvS cons-
Have a limited amount of spells since they have to choose them. Less flexibility this way




Cant really think of anything else atm, especially fvs cons since i havent played them yet, so sorry if i left anything out. Just looking for other opinions

My suggestion for a battle cleric, try building a paladin before purchasing fvs. You will not have all the nifty offensive spells as a cleric/fvs but the melee is fantastic. Paladins have really nice saves, self healing ability, and some wonderful prestige classes. Also, as a new player, you will by-pass alot of grief you would normally get by playing a melee cleric/fvs.

[FuzzyDuck81]

-class-based toughness enhancements
-full save progression
-more SP vs. cleric
-better melee abilities (focus & specialisation for free in a single weapon type)
-energy resistance (the annoying damage over time stuff is ignorable) which stacks with spells/items
-10/[something] DR if pure at cap (very useful, particularly soloing to negate ranged attacks while activating stuff)
-unlimited casting of a specific spell if pure at cap (best is sovereign host, for unlimited CLW that WILL benefit from all enhancements & metamagic, healing 70+ HP a pop with all of them, Silver flame for unlimited searing light looks nice too for attack casting)
-Leap of faith makes manuvering & zerging easier if thats your thing
-fewer spells than cleric
-get spells 1 level later
-spell save DC will generally be less (or requires reduction in other abilities to compensate)
-don't get turn undead (which is itself more useful for the other things like DH, DV etc.)

Overall, FvS is superior by far

[Danmor]

Caution:
My experience is noobish and limited.

That caveat aside, I've enjoyed the cleric's flexibility even though I could play a favored soul (for my experiences so far see my New Cleric Advice request from yesterday). I usually like to mêlée when I get a chance and so I usually take Bear's Endurance and Bull's Strength; but every time I run a Necropolis quest with guild mates I change out for Remove Curse and Remove Disease (I also have a disease immunity belt, but not everyone knows to bring such?). Favored soul wouldn't offer me such "Lemmee hit the tavern a sec" flexibility?

Yes.

Like bards and sorcerors, the Favored Soul has to pick spells when leveling up.
So while I can prepare 53 different spells at once on my cleric, I can only _HAVE_ 32 different spells on my FvS.

But as stated above, at cap that isn't such a big problem anymore. You'll have enough plat to use scrolls/wands/pots for many things (remove curse/disease come to mind) and won't need other spells (Bear's Endurance & Bull's Strength e.g.).
There are some quests where you will miss the ability to switch out spells. But they are rare.

[Anthem]

- Heal
- Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
- Blade Barrier
- Cometfall
- Harm
- Symbol of Persuasion
- Banishment

Favoured Soul: Pick 3.

Cleric: Carry 6 at the same time. Swap the 7th in mid-quest whenever you need it.

[Krag]

-class-based toughness enhancements
-spell save DC will generally be less (or requires reduction in other abilities to compensate)

Care to elaborate?
As far as I know DC comes from the same stat (Wisdom) and clerics don't have any enhancement to boost their DC.

[Anderei]

- Heal
- Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
- Blade Barrier
- Cometfall
- Harm
- Symbol of Persuasion
- Banishment

Favoured Soul: Pick 3.

Heal, Blade Barrier, Cometfall

the others i dont whine for, banishment is occasionally useful, but its a valid tradeoff.
Mass Heal shrug, Mass cure critical for fast most health, mass cure light for good SPefficiacy with greater devotion.

[Danmor]

Care to elaborate?
As far as I know DC comes from the same stat (Wisdom) and clerics don't have any enhancement to boost their DC.

If you want to get your Favored Soul's DC as high as your Cleric's, that requires a heavy investment in ability points. Usually this also means that some other ability has to suffer. That's what he said.

If you put 16 points into wisdom, you don't have that many left to get charisma to basic caster level (11+ for the average FvS) or get Str/Dex/Con up to melee-capable levels.

Edit:
Cleric gets Wisdom III enhancement, Favored Soul only gets up to Wisdom II.

[Anthem]

Heal, Blade Barrier, Cometfall

the others i dont whine for, banishment is occasionally useful, but its a valid tradeoff.

Mass Cure Mod is the de-facto raid heal short of Epic, but Favoured Souls are rather a different animal from Clerics, so it's a matter of play style rather than objective "betterness".

Some people don't like the one-trick pony. Personally I'll never be happy waiting 'til level 8 to choose just one of:

- Cure Critical Wounds
- Death Ward
- Freedom of Movement

When a cleric can carry them all at level 7, and swap in Recitation, Mass Shield of Faith, or full Restore when needed.

Whatever a FvS decides to do, they can do it amazingly well. They just can't do it all.

[Anderei]

If you put 16 points into wisdom, you don't have that many left to get charisma to basic caster level (11+ for the average FvS) or get Str/Dex/Con up to melee-capable levels.

8 base + 6 item + 2 tome + 3 enhancement + 2 capstone = 21

There is no need to invest any buildpoints into charisma. (I did 6 Buildpoints whatsoever, just to be on the save side and have a natural 21 without any item, but it really isn't necessary to do so)

With the current implemention clerics missing domains, and both having no Prestiges to further differ, Fvs are simply better, however for most stuff a well played cleric is good enough anyway. A good shroud-group can be solohealed by 1 cleric without SP-problems.

[Renvar]

- Heal
- Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
- Blade Barrier
- Cometfall
- Harm
- Symbol of Persuasion
- Banishment

Favoured Soul: Pick 3.

Cleric: Carry 6 at the same time. Swap the 7th in mid-quest whenever you need it.

All you need is BB, Cometfall, and either Mass CMW or Banishment.

Symbol of Persuasion is weak and Harm is only very limitedly useful. Mass CMW will become unnecessary after you get Mass CSW anyways. I know clerics get every healing spell automatically, but really, even when spamming healing from mana and scrolls in a tough raid, do you really need EVERY one? If you have two or three to cycle between you are in good shape with the cooldown timers.

[Krag]

All you need is BB, Cometfall, and either Mass CMW or Banishment.

Symbol of Persuasion is weak and Harm is only very limitedly useful. Mass CMW will become unnecessary after you get Mass CSW anyways. I know clerics get every healing spell automatically, but really, even when spamming healing from mana and scrolls in a tough raid, do you really need EVERY one? If you have two or three to cycle between you are in good shape with the cooldown timers.

Mass Heal fix removed the need to spam cures.

[Renvar]

If you want to get your Favored Soul's DC as high as your Cleric's, that requires a heavy investment in ability points. Usually this also means that some other ability has to suffer. That's what he said.

If you put 16 points into wisdom, you don't have that many left to get charisma to basic caster level (11+ for the average FvS) or get Str/Dex/Con up to melee-capable levels.

Edit:
Cleric gets Wisdom III enhancement, Favored Soul only gets up to Wisdom II.

The investment in Wisdom for an FvS from a build point perspective is the same as a Cleric's. Maxing it at 18 has the same cost. A cleric would have to have some other ability suffer as well. Not sure why this is relevant to a cleric/fvs comparison.

It is patently false that you cannot get charisma to casting level for level 9 spells if you put wisdom at 16 or even 18. Please don't spread mis-information. Do the build math before you make statements like that.

It is true that clerics get 1 more point of wisdom through enhancement that an FvS does not get, but this only leads to a +1 DC in the event that it can take an odd numbered wisdom to an even number. But, it is a potential for a +1 to DC, so it is a cleric advantage over FvS.

[Renvar]

Mass Cure Mod is the de-facto raid heal short of Epic, but Favoured Souls are rather a different animal from Clerics, so it's a matter of play style rather than objective "betterness".

Some people don't like the one-trick pony. Personally I'll never be happy waiting 'til level 8 to choose just one of:

- Cure Critical Wounds
- Death Ward
- Freedom of Movement

When a cleric can carry them all at level 7, and swap in Recitation, Mass Shield of Faith, or full Restore when needed.

Whatever a FvS decides to do, they can do it amazingly well. They just can't do it all.

So the basis for your opinion that an FvS is less enjoyable is because of the number ofr 4th level spells available at 8th level?

For the entire 5 hours you spend at 8th level before you hit 9th level and get more slots? And you really needed FOM or Cure Crit instead of just CSW while running Deleras, Gwlyans, Stormcleave, Greymoon, Threnal, Redwillows, Tear, Xorian, or anything else at that level?

Sorry, by level 9 or 10 you will have what you need and that is plenty of time for them to be useful. Certainly by endgame you have every spell you need with the FvS slots available.

There just aren't enough useful spells to make limited spell slots a significant factor for FvS or Sorc's, IMO.