Advice, perhaps?

[DeviledVillan]

Hey everybody...

I've had an account here for about half a year or so, but due to some craptacular computer issues only really able to get going now.

However, that leads me to some questions...

Currently i'm playing as a Bard (Warchanter), as I have in most all RP games (given that's an available class). But I'm finding it tricky to get past the 4th level.

I more or less cruised to here, but I've hit a wall...

so i guess in a nut shell...does anybody have any advice?

should I reroll another character?

Fire away experts!

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Have you grouped up at all?
It's something you might consider doing.

[DeviledVillan]

I've done mostly solo - i've grouped once or twice, died then too, albeit by a mistake on my part as opposed to not being a strong enough character.

However, i do like soloing - there's more freedom i feel. I like to go at things my own pace, be it fast or slow. I don't like leaving people behind, and i don't like slowing them up... so it's a tricky thing.

So i suppose the bard might not be the best choice then?

[Shishizaru]

If you find yourself dying a lot, you could try buying a Cleric hireling to help you out. Park it at the entrance, then summon it to you between fights to heal up. Cheaper then chugging tons of pots and stuff.

If you're dying in one fight because you're getting beaten up by tons of mobs, you could try the Fascinate song. It's very potent CC, but it has a long "windup." If you're planning to do this, try starting the song before you're in the middle of the mobs. You can also play while sneaking, but the song will cause mobs to look for you based of sound.

Finally, you could try putting up your own LFM's for people who like to go a bit slower and learn the ins and outs of the quests. Unfortunately, it's still a **** shoot as a lot of people sometimes fail to read anything in the LFM they applied to.

[DeviledVillan]

Hey,

that's actually not a bad idea. I've had hired goons with me in the past, but didn't think about leaving them, then summoning when needed. Good idea.

As for the fascinate; i've used it, but if you don't know when the mob's coming then it gets hard; but again, i could try the timing thing if i feel in danger :P

thanks for the advice.

[Lleren]

Grouping can be key when first starting out, as you do not have the fundage that those that have higher level characters have, or the ins and outs knowledge of the lower level quests.

I'll second that putting up looking for mores and posting "team play" or "stick together" in the description box. "Hitting all optionals" is another good one. "Team play" was the one I have used the most.

Some times you will get someone who has not read the description, and runs off. Either they succeed on thier own, which is character experience, even if its not much experience in grouping. Or they fail and die, and you get to laugh at them. So either way, you win! If they are a [bleep] to you, then you click thier name in the chatwindow and click the report harrasment button.

Most of the time however, you will get a group that enjoys a more relaxed pace. Some of them will be new, some of them simply are grouping for the social aspect and don't feel like running around at full speed today. Sometimes they will push the speed, but that is generally autopilot and if reminded will try to slow down.

Some folks don't read party chat, some folks don't hear voice, if you need to communicate with someone , try both =D

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Hirelings are a wonderful thing. Using a Healer hireling as a portable shrine is a great technique. So is playing to your characters strengths. Bards make everyone better. Soloing however will teach you more about a dungeon then most groups will, Explorer areas are a great example of this.

At your level I would head to Cerulian Hills with a hireling and explore, and learn how you best solo in such a large area. It is a lot safer to learn in an area that you can run away in, then in a dungeon. Cerulian Hills is off the south end of Stormreach, near the Irestone Inlet quest entrance.

[Malazarti]

If this is intended to be your first "main" character type thing....I think you may find levelling the Bard a bit challenging, as they aren't the most resilient/surviveable/melee-oriented power house per se. Levelling a bard is definitely very doable for someone with a little experience though who know's (or has a very good idea) about how to equip them (twink them out a bit) and how to spec their feats and what not. But as your first character, I think you'll have a hard time possibly and your character may really require a lot of groups to grow. Another down-side of that is a lot of low-level groups have pretty much no interest in having bards in them.

For something a lot more solo-friendly for a first char levelling I would suggest either a Paladin, Ranger, or Fighter. In that order. You'll find your survivability is much higher and your killing ability far superior. Once you have some gold, some decent twink items and better understanding of DDO game mechanics and class-building, go back and work on that bard.

[Kazon]

I've never found a need to park my hireling cleric at the entrance of a dungeon, although I can understand the thinking behind that: that they're incredibly stupid and will almost always run through traps and so forth.

Still, I've found that by just leaving them set to 'defend me' and having them at your six is best, since they'll often heal you right when you need it most - right in the middle of a fight. If they're at the entrance, and you're dead, what good are they doing? Sure you can still call them to retrieve your stone (or can you?) and then they can follow your ghost to the shrine, but why not just stay alive in the first place?

Also, try and get used to groups. You're going to find that soloing later on is much more difficult if not impossible, especially with a (respectfully submitted) squishy bard.

Once you get accustomed to the PUG environment, or better yet a static group or guild, you'll only occasionally solo just for the change of pace. Then again, if you never really intend to reach cap and just want to enjoy the game at your own pace, I don't blame you for wanting to stick to solo. In that case, stay out of Gianthold.

[Kam-Ekaze]

I've never found a need to park my hireling cleric at the entrance of a dungeon, although I can understand the thinking behind that: that they're incredibly stupid and will almost always run through traps and so forth.

Still, I've found that by just leaving them set to 'defend me' and having them at your six is best, since they'll often heal you right when you need it most - right in the middle of a fight. If they're at the entrance, and you're dead, what good are they doing? Sure you can still call them to retrieve your stone (or can you?) and then they can follow your ghost to the shrine, but why not just stay alive in the first place?

Also, try and get used to groups. You're going to find that soloing later on is much more difficult if not impossible, especially with a (respectfully submitted) squishy bard.

Once you get accustomed to the PUG environment, or better yet a static group or guild, you'll only occasionally solo just for the change of pace. Then again, if you never really intend to reach cap and just want to enjoy the game at your own pace, I don't blame you for wanting to stick to solo. In that case, stay out of Gianthold.

Hirelings have a tendency to fall over dead when a CR1 kobold sneezes in their general direction. This becomes more and more truth as you level up higher. Leaving them at the entrance is always a good idea for a melee combatant, and also for any soloist. Hirelings tend to like standing right beside their master, and cleave attacks and area of effect damage begins becoming more and more common as you get higher. Also they have a tendency to draw aggro, and they're not smart enough to move away when that happens, they will simply stand there and get beat on and hope to get that heal off.

[Shaftronics]

Just wondering, but are you playing a pure bard? Since a warchanter gets bonuses to rage, its not uncommon to find Warchanters with at least 1 or 2 levels of barbarian splashed in their Bard builds to take advantage of the Rage bonuses. As someone making a Warchanter build myself, having 1 Barbarian level early on made it much easier to level. I'm not forcing or recommending this, but I'm just suggesting an alternate way for you to look at the issue.

[Kazon]

@ Kam-Ekaze

I don't mean to argue with you, but with my 16 Fighter, I just recently solo'd Feast or Famine in Gianthold, which is a level 13 quest, and had one of the 14 Cleric hirelings with me.

Now in this quest, as you'll remember, there are lots of mobs to fight, some pretty straightforward traps, but not much else. I kept him following me on defend mode while I slaughtered everything in sight, and he did a fine job of auto healing me in between my manual healing orders and the occasional follow order. Yes he tended to stay within acid clouds occasionally but he actually surprised me by not walking straight into the nasty doorblade trap, instead waiting right outside of it until I got further enough along and called him, which caused him to 'port to my location instead.

The end fight would've been pretty impossible for me as a fighter if I didn't have him right there with me. His Heals allowed me to kill all the orc shamans that kept the orc leader in top health, and even then the leader was no pushover without my pocket cleric keeping me upright. It worked out great.

Granted, they do some stupid stuff but I really just don't see how their usefulness is increased by not having them follow you through most of the quest if you're a non-stealther. Again, not being next to you during a fight means they're incapable of keeping you in the fight. :shrug: I'm sure it's different for other classes.

[Shishizaru]

@ Kam-Ekaze

I don't mean to argue with you, but with my 16 Fighter, I just recently solo'd Feast or Famine in Gianthold, which is a level 13 quest, and had one of the 14 Cleric hirelings with me.

Now in this quest, as you'll remember, there are lots of mobs to fight, some pretty straightforward traps, but not much else. I kept him following me on defend mode while I slaughtered everything in sight, and he did a fine job of auto healing me in between my manual healing orders and the occasional follow order. Yes he tended to stay within acid clouds occasionally but he actually surprised me by not walking straight into the nasty doorblade trap, instead waiting right outside of it until I got further enough along and called him, which caused him to 'port to my location instead.

The end fight would've been pretty impossible for me as a fighter if I didn't have him right there with me. His Heals allowed me to kill all the orc shamans that kept the orc leader in top health, and even then the leader was no pushover without my pocket cleric keeping me upright. It worked out great.

Granted, they do some stupid stuff but I really just don't see how their usefulness is increased by not having them follow you through most of the quest if you're a non-stealther. Again, not being next to you during a fight means they're incapable of keeping you in the fight. :shrug: I'm sure it's different for other classes.

People like to leave them at the entrance because their AI is not very good. Leaving them there ensures that you will have heals between fights. If you need heals during the fight, odds are you're a bit in over your head. In those situations, I'm sure taking the hireling with you might let you squeeze out a win.

Then again, I play a Paladin, so if I can't keep myself alive, I'm really in over my head. ^^

Anyways, this is why I asked if the OP was getting smashed during fights, or simply running out of SP for heals. It would shed a lot of light upon how useful a hireling would be for him/her.

[Angelus_dead]

Currently i'm playing as a Bard (Warchanter), as I have in most all RP games (given that's an available class). But I'm finding it tricky to get past the 4th level.

A warchanter bard should be able to solo to 20th without much trouble.

If you can't get by level 4, that must mean you've stopped gaining XP because you've stopped being able to win quests. Some more detail as to what quests you tried and why they failed would help diagnose your problem- most likely you'd do fine after simply being told some easier missions to try.

But keep in mind that a bard's best ability is to buff the DPS of his party members, and if you don't have any teammates then much of the class features are wasted. (Hirelings and summons don't benefit from it nearly as much)

[DeviledVillan]

Just wondering, but are you playing a pure bard? Since a warchanter gets bonuses to rage, its not uncommon to find Warchanters with at least 1 or 2 levels of barbarian splashed in their Bard builds to take advantage of the Rage bonuses. As someone making a Warchanter build myself, having 1 Barbarian level early on made it much easier to level. I'm not forcing or recommending this, but I'm just suggesting an alternate way for you to look at the issue.

Yes, sir, I am playing as a pure bard; that may change, and I'll keep the barb in mind.

A warchanter bard should be able to solo to 20th without much trouble.

If you can't get by level 4, that must mean you've stopped gaining XP because you've stopped being able to win quests. Some more detail as to what quests you tried and why they failed would help diagnose your problem- most likely you'd do fine after simply being told some easier missions to try.

But keep in mind that a bard's best ability is to buff the DPS of his party members, and if you don't have any teammates then much of the class features are wasted. (Hirelings and summons don't benefit from it nearly as much)

Some of the quests I've tried and failed horribly at are the Inlet one (i forget the exact name), but as for some of the other ones that have been an issue I've managed to get through with the cleric hireling. So it's been getting better, I'm still having fun regardless of the dying - it's just a learning curve I suppose, and I'm getting there. So thanks for the advice

Now to weigh in on the hireling AI... I find it hit or miss. They seem to get stuck, or stop following, or something at the worst times. But mostly he's there doing his job when needed.

[Shaftronics]

Irestone inlet is definately not an easy quest however. Usually even at level 5, a full party of 6 is greatly recommended, considering the amount of monsters you'll be going against at the time and the variety, as each bloody camp you'll run into will have archers, melee and even spellcasters. Going with yourself and just a hireling is insufficient. =p

You'll have an easier time with the Lighthouse quest, Information is key, Kobold's New Ringheader and heck, if done correctly, even the Waterworks Quest Chain is easier.

[Lleren]

Ah good old Irestone Inlet.

When you first talk to that guy a hint pops up warning you that it is an extreme challenge dungeon, a few other quests in the game get that warning as well. Possible to solo for some classes, builds, or level of resources, but not really meant to be.

Kobold Assault is another, hmm there are a few of them in the Marketplace as well that are basically not meant to solo. Can't remeber thier names right now though. I think of them as throwbacks to the beginnings of DDO, where part of its advertising was "Friends don't let friends play Solo"

[UnderwearModel]

Your most powerful spell for soloing is CHARM. Make the monsters be your minions. You only have two shrines in there to replenish your spells points.

Irestone Inlet is a tough one to run at 4th level and as a solo. Too many ogres and too many hobgoblin Shamans.

Do the quests you can solo but constantly check the LFMS for a Irestone Inlet group. You should be able to find a party for that quest.

[Shishizaru]

Ah good old Irestone Inlet.

When you first talk to that guy a hint pops up warning you that it is an extreme challenge dungeon, a few other quests in the game get that warning as well. Possible to solo for some classes, builds, or level of resources, but not really meant to be.

Kobold Assault is another, hmm there are a few of them in the Marketplace as well that are basically not meant to solo. Can't remeber thier names right now though. I think of them as throwbacks to the beginnings of DDO, where part of its advertising was "Friends don't let friends play Solo"

Gladewatch Outpost springs to mind, I think the rest are not too bad. Your primary concern shifts from staying alive to "omg *** there are two entrances."

[DeviledVillan]

Gladewatch Outpost springs to mind, I think the rest are not too bad. Your primary concern shifts from staying alive to "omg *** there are two entrances."

Haha, nice.

But yeah, the Irestone Inlet... I got close, I resuced half of the crew members and killed a couple of "bosses" but when I hit the ogre camp, I was just obliterated.

However, I completed the waterworks quest chain last night with relative ease as well as the kobold assault.

Perhaps I'm not looking in the right spots, but I'm finding quests my level hard to come by.

However, again, thanks for all the tips guys. Keep 'em coming!

[Kam-Ekaze]

@ Kam-Ekaze

I don't mean to argue with you, but with my 16 Fighter, I just recently solo'd Feast or Famine in Gianthold, which is a level 13 quest, and had one of the 14 Cleric hirelings with me.

Now in this quest, as you'll remember, there are lots of mobs to fight, some pretty straightforward traps, but not much else. I kept him following me on defend mode while I slaughtered everything in sight, and he did a fine job of auto healing me in between my manual healing orders and the occasional follow order. Yes he tended to stay within acid clouds occasionally but he actually surprised me by not walking straight into the nasty doorblade trap, instead waiting right outside of it until I got further enough along and called him, which caused him to 'port to my location instead.

The end fight would've been pretty impossible for me as a fighter if I didn't have him right there with me. His Heals allowed me to kill all the orc shamans that kept the orc leader in top health, and even then the leader was no pushover without my pocket cleric keeping me upright. It worked out great.

Granted, they do some stupid stuff but I really just don't see how their usefulness is increased by not having them follow you through most of the quest if you're a non-stealther. Again, not being next to you during a fight means they're incapable of keeping you in the fight. :shrug: I'm sure it's different for other classes.

Hey bud,

You're entitled to argue with me, debate is certainly one of those things where everyone walks away wiser in the end as long as it is kept civil and mature, so I appreciate your point of view.

I'm actually surprised your hireling was smart enough not to zap himself on the door in PoP. Mine walked straight into it and died last time I solo'd it while leveling, lol. I think a smart player can handle their hirelings regardless of what strategy they use. Even with my intimipaladin I used to always attempt to leave the hireling at the entrance, even if I could nab aggro back to me with intimidate because one way or another he would get himself killed at some stage.

There were times when I would call them into the room for a boss fight, but usually put them away in a corner and switch follow off, commanding him to heal me when I needed it. If having them follow you on defend works for oyu, kudos and excellent work, though I believe I'll stick to keeping mine at the entrance and use them as walking shrines. They are far too unexpectable and prone to standing in lava for me to have to worry about them.