The Monk for New Monk Players [Builds]

[Eurytos]

Since there are a lot of threads popping up about people who don't know much about Monks wanting to build their first one, I thought I'd start this thread instead of replying in all of them. This thread is for people curious about starting a monk but are unable to make a decision on which route to go for as they are inexperienced with the class. I'll make the same recommendations here that I do for all my guildies who ask me about how to play their first monk.

Now, advanced players who know monks from their friends and guildies can skip all this and make a decision based on what they already know, but this thread is for people who don't know enough to make that decision.

Here's a monk build template that will work well through the low/mid/high range that will not be suffering on elites and epics once that level is reached. It will give the full taste of the monk class.

Note: I have the racial choices in order of my preference in best to worst. Opinions differ, and they will all be fine choices for your first monk.

Starting Stats 28Point Halfling | Human | Warforged | Dwarf | Elf | Drow Elf
STR: 14 | 14 | 14 | 14 | 14 | 14
DEX: 16 | 16 | 16 | 16 | 16 | 16
CON: 14 | 14 | 16 | 16 | 14 | 14
INT: 8 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 10
WIS: 14 | 14 | 12 | 14 | 14 | 14
CHA: 8 | 8 | 6 | 6 | 8 | 10

Starting Stats 32Point Halfling | Human | Warforged | Dwarf | Elf
STR: 14 | 14 | 14 | 14 | 14
DEX: 18 | 18 | 18 | 18 | 18
CON: 14 | 14 | 14 | 14 | 14
INT: 8 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 8
WIS: 14 | 12 | 12 | 14 | 14
CHA: 8 | 8 | 6 | 6 | 8

All Level-Up points into DEX

Feat Progression
1. Stunning Fist
1. Toughness (Human Feat)
1. Two Weapon Fighting
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Power Attack
3. Path of Harmonious Balance (Light, more useful abilities, especially early on)
6. Toughness
6. Toughness
9. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. Improved Critical: Bludgeon
15. Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. Toughness

Skills
Max Concentration (The more concentration you have, the more base Ki you have)

Enhancements
Different for every race. The important thing is to make sure you max racial toughness and open all the stance/ki-strike enhancements you can. The rest is up to you. Enhancements are easy to swap and experiment with anyway.

Notes:

• Just because STR isn't your main stat, don't ignore it. You still need Strength for damage. Find some STR gear and keep it on!
• Same goes for CON and WIS. CON helps the hitpoints of a hitpoint deprived class (monk) and WIS will help you land more stunning fists and quivering palms.
• Check out the Monk Wiki page for more in-depth information http://ddowiki.com/page/Monk
• Also check out the Finishing Moves page and learn them all http://ddowiki.com/page/Finishing_moves

[Kawabonga]

The newb that I am thanks you for this initiative. (+1 )

Now I know where to start!

[TPICKRELL]

+1 Rep! Thanks for putting in the time for this.

[Aerendil]

Good initiative, so props to you for that one.
However, a few things to nitpick on:

1) your starting stat points look unbalanced, such as having every race starting with 18 DEX which is (1) far too expensive for some races, and (2) a waste of starting stat points, even on a DEX-based race
2) you took toughness multiple times. This could be debateable on it's usefulness, as there are plenty of other feats to purchase.
3) stat level up choice (DEX) is also debateable. Personally, I would choose either a bit more dps-focused (STR) or stunning fist/AC focused (WIS). I'm not a big fan of putting level-ups into DEX, especially when you can easily hit the 30+ marker anyways which should give you more than enough to-hit and reflex save.

[Eurytos]

If you put levels into WIS, you would be hurting for to-hit when you do reach 20 and need the accuracy. Also, those wisdom points become a waste when you're 20 and quivering palm and stunning fist stop working as reliably as it used to. Especially if it were a newer player that didn't have easy access to tomes and equipment. The same goes for strength. I would put points into STR if I lowered DEX to 15/16 and increased STR, but again, new players would then be forced to find a dex tome in order to take improved/greater two weapon fighting.

Someone who already has sufficient knowledge of the game can easily manipulate the stats to their play styles and they have enough understanding to decide what they want to alter. This is just a base point.

[hockeyrama]

I don't want another monk debate thread just have a few questions.

I am a fairly new player and have tried a few monk builds and just wondering why you start with 17 dex. I do my halfling monk 28 pt build with
str 14
dex 16
con 14
int 8
wis 14
chr 8

This way I get 2 extra points and move wis to 14 instead of 12. I know the dex is the most important but since I was putting points there every level not sure the one point makes that big a difference but 2 points to wis means an +1 bonus.

Also on a halfling build with light based would it not be good to recommend the dragonmarks instead of the toughness this was the monk is really able to heal themselves when solo or when everyone else goes down and the monk left to pick up the pieces. The few extra hp are not as important as teh extra healing the monk can give to themself or the group.

[Eurytos]

I don't want another monk debate thread just have a few questions.

I am a fairly new player and have tried a few monk builds and just wondering why you start with 17 dex. I do my halfling monk 28 pt build with
str 14
dex 16
con 14
int 8
wis 14
chr 8

This way I get 2 extra points and move wis to 14 instead of 12. I know the dex is the most important but since I was putting points there every level not sure the one point makes that big a difference but 2 points to wis means an +1 bonus.

Those starting stats look perfectly fine for a 28 point, go with that

Also on a halfling build with light based would it not be good to recommend the dragonmarks instead of the toughness this was the monk is really able to heal themselves when solo or when everyone else goes down and the monk left to pick up the pieces. The few extra hp are not as important as teh extra healing the monk can give to themself or the group.

It's a matter of personal preference. In my opinion, monks are hurting for hitpoints at level 20. I would strongly advise against dropping toughness all together. Take at least 1 toughness feat.

That being said, I also advise against Dragonmarks. At level 20, the only dragonmark that will end up being useful is the Greater Dragonmark for the Heal spell. Without metamagic feats, the other 2 prerequisite feats become worse than just drinking a potion. So for 3 feats, you will end up with 1 charge of a 200 point heal. You could waste up to 10 enhancement points and get a total of 5 200 point heals, but still, that is not worth 3 feats in my opinion.

Besides, on a DEX build, there is just no way to fit 3 feats in unless you were to remove stunning fist (which won't work reliably at level 20 anyway) or one of the feats that severely affects your damage output.

[ripperj]

great, now post a thread on how to make a str based monk too, its only logical

[Glaceon1987]

Edit:

Can anyone suggest whether to take Spot/Jump or Hide/Move Silently?

I'm gonna try Max Conc and Balance, though.

And is Stunning Fists a good idea for a 28pt build? With wisdom at 14, won't it be next to useless at high level?

[TPICKRELL]

Edit:

Can anyone suggest whether to take Spot/Jump or Hide/Move Silently?

I'm gonna try Max Conc and Balance, though.

And is Stunning Fists a good idea for a 28pt build? With wisdom at 14, won't it be next to useless at high level?

I always go with Jump until about 20 base points. Jump comes into play a lot in the game.

Spot is very useful if you don't have true seeing, but for me its value drop as you go up in levels. I don't sneak so hide/move silently are a waste. If you solo a lot and don't mind moving at sneak pace and have the skill points go ahead, but they would be a complete waste for all of my toons.

Stunning fist is ok with a 14 wisdom for normal content and slayer areas all the way up. I used it quite effectively in the Vale on normal and even in some of the reavers refuge area with a 28 pt build. But it won't work on epic or hard/elite unless you invest quite a lot in improving the DC. So its a personal call. I tend to take it for dex/wis builds and take stunning blow for str builds. But it does become less useful (or useless) in hard/elite/epic high level content.

[evil_mimi]

Those starting stats look perfectly fine for a 28 point, go with that .

hey Eury

I read all threads and your opinions
I'll thank you if you can post maybe a suggest for 32 build monk and a preferred race for you opinion.
I'm not new at the game but new for the monk chr...and think i'll go with the light as i read from your drak vs. light
thank you!

[ParityBit]

I was going to use this for starting stats. Is this OK?

Hafling (Lawful Good)
Str : 15
Dex : 16
Con : 15
Int : 8
Wis : 13
Chr : 8

Thanks!

[Eurytos]

Should be fine, but I recommend Lawful Neutral. Pure good handwraps do not require a UMD/alignment check so Lawful Neutral can use them as well.

[ParityBit]

Now, I see some people say wisdom is not worth it, and some say it is.

So which is it? Things people are saying are confusing and contradictory!

I will change the alignment to lawful neutral (Did not have time to play last night like planned)

[hockeyrama]

Now, I see some people say wisdom is not worth it, and some say it is.

So which is it? Things people are saying are confusing and contradictory!

I will change the alignment to lawful neutral (Did not have time to play last night like planned)

The idea is that for a basic or new player monk design to go witht he Op suggestions.

If you want to go in to more options when you have played a monk a bit then you have to pick how you want it to work. The monk has probably the most complex build to do well if you go with your own build. Wis is one of the examples of things that you need to figure out when you doing a more complete personal build.

If you going to try to stunning fist everything for example having a high wis and going in mountain stance is the best way (not recommending it). If you not using stunning fist alot as you nkow you will have trouble getting the DC high enough to be effective then you not need to worry about wis. Just put more in str/con/dex and then focus more on a str build.

THe easiest monk to play is probably a halfling light dex based (with some wis) monk. He can attack fast and is fairly effective at leveling up to higher levels. However, at higher levels this is a hard build to use well unless you know what you are doing. So that is why the big debate about monk builds. If you want to solo and use it for leveling (in gorup or solo) then it is great. If you want to play level 20 elite or epic you need to eithier gear him exceptionally well or have a different build. That is my summary of the discussion going on about monks.


My personal thoughts are you should play the light monk as long as you can and then decide where to go from there. You can make your own build later as you will understand how the monk works it is way different then any other class and needs some practice first.

[TPICKRELL]

Now, I see some people say wisdom is not worth it, and some say it is.

So which is it? Things people are saying are confusing and contradictory!

It is both and that's why it is confusing and contradictory.

While leveling up, especially your first monk, some of the most monkish fun is related to Stunning Fist (stunned=auto crits=much ki and quick death) and Quivering Palm (instant death) strikes. However theres a point in late game (Hard/Elite Vale Quests for my first monk) where these strikes stop working completely.

Up until that point, a high wisdom contributes mightily to the monk fun. After that point, the high wisdom becomes much less valuable than the same points in STR or CON.

So, if you are building a monk mostly for end game, wisdom can almost be considered a dump stat, but if you are building a monk mostly for leveling then wisdom should be relatively high (balanced with str/con/dex).

If this is your first monk, I would suggest going with a dex/wis halfling build and plan to rerincarnate at level 20. Leveling your first monk with a relatively balanced str/con/dex/wis build is a real blast.

[Greydeath]

Starting Stats 28Point Elf
STR: 14 |
DEX: 16 |
CON: 14 |
INT: 8 |
WIS: 16 |
CHA: 8 |

Elf 28 Stat array is incorrect (I imagine WIS14?), and I disagree with the amount of toughnesses, but otherwise well done.

[Eurytos]

Elf 28 Stat array is incorrect (I imagine WIS14?), and I disagree with the amount of toughnesses, but otherwise well done.

Fixed the WIS.

As for feats, there aren't any other feats that would give as much benefit to a new monk without access to great gear.

Dodge? 1 feat is not worth 1 AC imo
Weapon Focus: Bludgeon? A dex build should never have problems hitting
Any Save Feats? Monks already have high saves

Perhaps a Human can get away with Skill Focus: UMD and pump points into UMD.

[ParityBit]

So then only human races should take UMD and higher Charisma?

[hockeyrama]

I think he saying that due to the feat restrictions other races don't have the space for skill focus umd where a human has one extra feat.