To all you so called leaders!!??

[Judo]

Nobody picked the sarchasm in my post? the point is that there is no way to know why someone is leaving, other than asking, and nobody would answer truthfully if that means a penalty...

I think the only one who failed was the OP lol

My favorite excuse ever was a guildy who left a failing pug lowby group, with the best excuse ive ever heard...

"Sorry guys, I just cr*p*ed my pants, i have to go"

That should totally be one of the options.

And to the OP, thankfully, DDO is not a socialist republic, where your betters get penalized for your underachievements.

[Shaamis]

that suggestion, while it might curb this behaviour, will not really help in the grand scheme.

It will cause people to become more selective on grouping in PUGs, and will cause more animosity between newer players and those who consider themselves "vets" which the line is beginning to blur on.

[LunaCee]

Ohh actually now that I think further on it here is a *really* good reason that this will get the kiss of death and never see the light of day.

Griefing. Anytime you hand players a tool or effect that can be potentially abused to ruin the fun of other players there will be a number of people that go out of their way to do so.

With your suggestion we'd have pikers in darn near every quest... especially places like Misery's Peak for newcomers. They won't go into the room to let the quest complete, and furthermore you can't quit to get away from the griefer without taking a penalty... This would be even worse with griefers screwing up raids.

So yeah /notsigned yet again!

[Tummada]

lol. So you want the leader to spend money on repair costs and resources to help a bunch of incompetents through a quest. That is quite amusing.

Oh I'm sorry I hate to make you use YOUR resources to help others! Don't ever play a cleric you'll hate it. And yes most low level toon like the one's i'm talking about are incompetent and need help, sometimes above and beyond help!!

it's amazing how many people are sticking up for quitting when the going gets tough or they think their fellow party goers are noobs. Just because someone does not know a quest and may hinder progress does not give anyone the right to leave group. It's not only a waist of your time not to complete the quest but your also wasting other peoples time by leaving!!

[Lerincho]

Oh I'm sorry I hate to make you use YOUR resources to help others! Don't ever play a cleric you'll hate it. And yes most low level toon like the one's i'm talking about are incompetent and need help, sometimes above and beyond help!!

it's amazing how many people are sticking up for quitting when the going gets tough or they think their fellow party goers are noobs. Just because someone does not know a quest and may hinder progress does not give anyone the right to leave group. It's not only a waist of your time not to complete the quest but your also wasting other peoples time by leaving!!

I play cleric, and so does the person you were responding with. There is a difference though, we are not babysitters on our clerics, we actually determine how we want to use OUR resources. When it is cheaper spell point wise to ressurect you than to keep you healed, guess where you'll spend most of the quest? I have an entire bag slot waiting for soul stones.

[taurean430]

Oh I'm sorry I hate to make you use YOUR resources to help others! Don't ever play a cleric you'll hate it. And yes most low level toon like the one's i'm talking about are incompetent and need help, sometimes above and beyond help!!

it's amazing how many people are sticking up for quitting when the going gets tough or they think their fellow party goers are noobs. Just because someone does not know a quest and may hinder progress does not give anyone the right to leave group. It's not only a waist of your time not to complete the quest but your also wasting other peoples time by leaving!!

I realize the you are upset regarding the event.

Yet promoting the expectation that people stick it out in a regular quest and burn their resources is a bit much. Sometimes quests fail. The logical thing to do is to find out why and do something about it. Raging at the person who quit when the party wiped, and anyone who finds reasons or scenarios where it's acceptable to do so is not the answer. I agree with you in that it sucks when that happens. Sometimes a failed save is all it takes to start a chain of deaths ending in complete party wipe. And the guy shouldn't have ranted as you say. But they had every right to drop if it seemed to them that the completion wouldn't happen without digging too far into consumable resources.

[Lerincho]

Do not like that a party leader could leave after a party wipe? Be your own leader instead of rely on someone else.

[CompAg]

While I agree with the sentiment, I cannot agree with the conclusion that a penalty is appropriate. There are various reason to leave a party and the program cannot tell the difference. The leader will be penalized as any player is who behaves poorly in groups. They don't get grouped with as much.

My main concern with your post is how many veteran posters actually posted that it's ok to drop party just because it isn't going well. If your party doesn't know the quest or isn't doing what you think they should, it is your job to guide them. Not yell at them and leave them looking for a replacement. You built the party, so you should know by levels and classes if you have an adequate party. Any party of appropriate level and makeup should be able to finish Crucible (or other very challenging quest) with the proper guidance.

And if there is a party wipe, due to inexperience, bad luck on traps, or someone just pulled a little too much, regroup. If you think it is a complete lost cause, say so as nicely as possible. Others will probably agree and be more than willing to follow you to a more challenge appropriate quest or retry the current quest on a lower difficulty. If handled diplomatically you can even leave the party to move on to a more profitable party. Try something like, "Guys I don't think we are ready for this." Followed by, "I think I am going to try that other quest on the group list."

There is never a reason to yell or be rude to your party, just because the party isn't doing well. 99% of the time, when a party fails, it is the leader's failure. Try leading a group instead of just building it and expecting everyone to know what to do.

[Captain_Wizbang]

HHMMM!!

99% of the time, I wont run with people I dont know!
That eliminated the problem you speak of!

About half of the new players we have in-game, have some real bad habits, or are too young to have common courtesy.

The other half seem ok!

As for a penalty! NO WAY!
That would have to be player monitored! Oh I can see the neg rep bar in game! lol

[petegunn]

Whilst I know your intentions are honourable, I'm experienced enough to know when a situation is untenable lets look at what happened (you guys wiped in the maze of crucible on hard).Call it a day, obviously some players where snorkel deep over their heads best to save yourself the pain and get out early.

However I do not agree with how the party leader reacted a more socialble response should have been "sorry guys this isn't working out would you like to try casual"?

[Cyr]

A penalty for someone who leaves group due to noob wipe after a party wipe. That sounds like the perfect reason to leave group...

I know it's totally in the games long term interest to penalize people for sticking with pugs which are driving them to drinking.

On the scale of bad suggestions this one rates a :
9/10

[Bunker]

About half of the new players we have in-game, have some real bad habits, or are too young to have common courtesy.

The other half seem ok!

And of course, 100% of new players are NEW. That is something a lot of us vets seem to forget sometimes, is that new players are new. It may appear like rudeness, or bad habits, and I do agree with you ferd that those players definitly exsist, but for more then 1/2 of the new players that have joined in the past 3-5 months, they are simply just NEW.

I think some above have stated just like others have on similar threads, Rule #1 to avoid bad leaders is: BE THE LEADER AND START YOUR OWN GROUP.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Oh I'm sorry I hate to make you use YOUR resources to help others! Don't ever play a cleric you'll hate it. And yes most low level toon like the one's i'm talking about are incompetent and need help, sometimes above and beyond help!!

it's amazing how many people are sticking up for quitting when the going gets tough or they think their fellow party goers are noobs. Just because someone does not know a quest and may hinder progress does not give anyone the right to leave group. It's not only a waist of your time not to complete the quest but your also wasting other peoples time by leaving!!

Who the hell are you to tell anyone they have no right do somthing?
Lucky for me I don't live in your red-banered state...

[JOTMON]

So here is my suggestion; Once a party enters a quest if a party member LEAVES group because things are going south then that toon who left should be penalized next time they log on weather by XP penalty or some other means. What do you think?

Not gonna get much support for this one.

Perhaps this party was full of noobs, but it appears like the leader wasn't prepared or was incapable of leading this party to a successful finish. Should you keep trying or move on and change a weak aspect of the group, like finding someone who would lead the party and maybe take some time to show the newbs the quest.

There is a place where you can add special people like the one that bailed on your party..

/squelch

or add him to your friends list with a comment as to why he is a special friend.


Shouldn't be anything stopping you or someone else in the party from taking over and reforming the group and running again, fill that now empty spot with someone usefull.

[petegunn]

Who the hell are you to tell anyone they have no right do somthing?
Lucky for me I don't live in your red-banered state...

Careful burner when you mention RED Vetkin will pop out of the woodwork "surprise comrades" closely followed with the red angry face.

[nbennet]

Not signed.

I have a question for the OP: when the leader left group, what did the rest of you do? Did the party regroup with someone else taking over, and come back to complete? Because if you didn't:
1. The rest of you also lacked determination, and your complaint is hypocritical
AND
2. You were hoping for a person to hold your hand through the quest, and were unable to complete without one

When someone drops out of a group I am in, it typically has limited impact because competent players will be able to shortman until they either find another or complete. If someone ragequits, you lol and keep going. If your group wasn't able to do that I can understand someone not wanting to waste their time, especially on a quest like Crucible. People have to leave all the time for all kinds of reasons, and the the loss of a single person is rarely insurmountable.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

So here is my suggestion; Once a party enters a quest if a party member LEAVES group because things are going south then that toon who left should be penalized next time they log on weather by XP penalty or some other means. What do you think?

If anything you said had merit you lost all credibilty with this statement. All that would do is discourage grouping.

[Hokiewa]

Oh I'm sorry I hate to make you use YOUR resources to help others! Don't ever play a cleric you'll hate it. And yes most low level toon like the one's i'm talking about are incompetent and need help, sometimes above and beyond help!!

it's amazing how many people are sticking up for quitting when the going gets tough or they think their fellow party goers are noobs. Just because someone does not know a quest and may hinder progress does not give anyone the right to leave group. It's not only a waist of your time not to complete the quest but your also wasting other peoples time by leaving!!

Amazing. To think your making anybody do anything is beyond absurd. It's pretty clear at this point where the problem is.

[Judo]

Who the hell are you to tell anyone they have no right do somthing?
Lucky for me I don't live in your red-banered state...

I totally called the communist tendencies first.

[Hokiewa]

I totally called the communist tendencies first.

Maybe true, but you win the prize with the **** your pants suggestion. One of the guilds I'm in has several ancient members. I'm not entirely sure that that would have been a lie when they dropped group.....