Hitting the wall, again (stuck at lvl 14)

[Lehrman]

SO Could you assert/deny the following

1° YES THERE IS A WALL. and getting past the original content needs preparation/grind/training, don't loose hope!

Quest knowledge, gear, and the right class for the quest. don't lose hope!

2° YES THERE IS A WALL. and the way you play the game won't get you past that wall (that option makes me very sad since i don't intend to play otherwise)

At low-mid levels, duo melees is expensive unless you are geared very well or have high AC. At high levels its very expensive unless you have a lot of fast-click, self-healing (wands while running away and jumping so you don't get hit, lay hands, etc.) or high AC or ridiculously high DPS--both generally imply uber gear.

3° NO THERE'S NO WALL. only the game getting a little harder and what you are dong wrong is ________ (insert advice)

There is no wall, only Zuul...My advice is that if someone asks you if you are a God, you say, "Yes." Most heavily-twinked, solo-questing toons start slowing down at around level 12, most non-heavily twinked start slowing down around level 8 and hit a wall around level 12--you can push the boundaries of the wall by doing slayers in explorer areas. You are not doing anything wrong, but it is worth farming a lot of bound to account gear so that when you create more characters, the leveling pain is lessened.

Parameters

* My GF plays a Kensai 14 Greataxe, i play a rogue 12/ranger2 and we a have priest hireling (expensive)

You can cut some of the expense by using cure serious wands on your rogue/ranger rather than drinking cure serious pots. With the wands you can keep your Gf alive better than that hireling can, but if you are healing her, then you are not fighting. Another expense cutter is the gathering of haste clickies to be used instead of pots. Also, if you have a semi-decent AC (40+) then spending plat on barkskin+3 potions may actually reduce your costs more since you may well get hit less--if you are a 2wpn build, then using shield spell clickies or wands will boost your ac even more. The only thing better than getting healed is not getting hit int he first place.

* We play only the two of us

This may well limit the quests you can run with the classes you have chosen. As you get better gear you will begin to overcome class barriers.

* We try to do all the missions avalaible in order (not setting a foot in Gianhold before finishing desert)
* We do not Grind content (doing the mission ONCE on normal, getting back on Hard/Elite once for Favor a few lvl later)

This will slow down the speed at which you can level, especially if you are not skipping the quests that are cost prohibitive or repeating the quests that are great xp even without the bonus for first time completion.

* We do not Cheat ( NOT using maps, dungeons guide, video library of quest)
* We are not over stuffed. (equpping ourselves on our own)

Its ok to buy from the auction house, but good luck finding something at a reasonable price. Periodically checking the vendors may net you an occasional vorpal or disruptor and will make your life a lot easier in the long term.

* we absolutely, totally HATE zerging

Zerging is really just a matter of DPS. When your girlfriend hits a mob with stunning blow and kills it on the followup swing or crits/kills a mob in one swing it is zerging on a micro-scale. When she kills a mob with every other swing from the start of the quest to the end of the quest and the bodies are like bread crumbs from a children's story, then whether you like it or not, you have zerged.

Zerging has a bad name because people who can't zerg try to zerg and get the party or themselves killed. Run a non-epic quest with a 70+ strength 800 hp barbarian who is geared for epics and you will see what zerging is meant to look like. Its sick, awesome, but sick.

The moral of the story is: If you are having fun, then you win. Its ok to be level 14 for the next decade if you are having fun doing it.

[Lleren]

Have you run the "A Relic of Soveriegn Past" quest?. It has a crafting mechanic to it. One of the things you make is the Nightforge Gorget, a necklace with Heavy Fortification ( stops crits dead ). Running this quest once will get you enough Ore for one, running it twice will get you enough ore for 3 of them, so you can sell some on the auction house maybe. If both of your characters already have Heavy Fortification please ignore this =D

With your duo team I would avoid quests with a major amount of undead. Play to your strengths, concentrate on fleshy mobs. Ataraxia explorer/slayer/rares would be another thing you could work on. It is not really grinding until you know the area like the back of your hand

One more tactic, hold off leveling until you have finished your quest goals for that level, or you are capped on exp. One level below you on normal has no exp penalty, but 2 levels does, 3 levels below the penalty is rather noticeable.

There is a reason why most duo's ( in many games, not just DDO ) go Heavy Melee/Healer. If you can stand the look of Warforged there is always the Warforged duo team some others have mentioned earlier.

There are walls, but many of the walls are playstyle and character build choices. If you only ever duo, there is content you will miss out on. More then some duo's as you lack both Divine and Arcane spellscasting, except through consumables.

Casual Mode was designed for your situation. The higher level you get, the more money you can make.

[Hecore]

FVS/Monk and Bard/Rogue would probably work out, as would a Warforged Paladin and a Warforged Wizard/Rogue.

Two DPS/Low AC are going to have it rough without any kind of quick personal healing. I'd suggest leveraging your UMD as much as you can - Heroism/Greater Heroism scrolls, Stoneskin Wands, Blur wands. Drink Rage potions and Haste potions liberally. Use a bit of ranged to pull a fewer mobs at a time. Hit the auction and buy paralyzers - less popular weapons shouldn't cost too much and it'll cut the damage you take by a lot.

I wouldn't worry too much about money - starting at level 16 or so it just starts flowing in. I haven't been purposely farming for loot and I have 3 million GP at 17, after buying a bunch of Heal scrolls, Raise Dead scrolls, Stoneskin wands, Level 11 Resist Wands, etc.

[Claver]

My GF and i manage to do the missions but at a heavy cost. So heavy that we don't have fun anymore
* We are not over stuffed. (equpping ourselves on our own)
* we absolutely, totally HATE zerging

One more word of advice,

I don't think this is what you meant by heavy cost but since you are taking time to smell the roses in the quests be sure to gather as many collectable as you can.

Once DDO introduced crafting rituals via collectables I was never poor again.

You can sell lightning split soarwood on the auction house for 500k, silver flame hymnals for 250k, and a host of other collectables that you gather for free for ridiculous prices.

Profits from collectibles will go a long way to offset the cost of hirelings, cure posts and cure wands

[samthedagger]

This is an MMO. That means Massively-Multiplayer Online. This game is not meant for solo players or even duos. It is meant for people who like to group up with lots of other people for shared enjoyment of the game. You can solo quite easily up to level 10. After that, it starts to get rough unless you really know what you are doing (read: have already run the quest a dozen times and know how to prep).

A lot of people wear an ability to solo as a badge of honor. That's because it is difficult to solo the entire game. Hirelings don't cut it. They can help round out a group, but they are never a substitute for an actual party of 6.

Group up with people. You'll have to start with PUGs, obviously, although you could look around on the forums for guilds that are recruiting. And yes, you will have to wade through some idiots who know nothing of manners or polite behavior. Sadly, that's par for the course. But once you find a solid group of people you like to quest with, the rewards are great. You will do quests faster because you know how to work as a team. You'll share loot with each other. And you can exchange tips with each other. Multiplayer is the key to this game. If you aren't doing it, you are missing out on the whole point of the experience.

[ghortagg]

I'd like to thank everybody for their advices

1° my priest hireling is used as a mobile shrine, not in battle.
2° i m quite relieved that the main problem is duo-ing, because that can be worked around
3° I m wondering if an Arcane Hireling (wiz our sorc) can ease up the path a little

So right now i'll try to bring that wall down

Why play a MMO if you like to solo or play only with people you know? Wouldn't XBox or PS3 be the same thing?

I play mostly du to the RPG part of (MMO)RPG.
Would a Lan Party Game RPG would please me ? oh yes
MMORPG just have more content, are more inovative.
The occasional chat with strangers is nice, the global market is nice.
But i still play those games as Standard RPG.


Why don't we group ?

*Because we like to discover things by our own.
When doing a dungeon simply is rushing behind someone, not learning, not experincing the mood of the dungeon, we don't have any kind of fun.
*Because the language is a barrier, (English is not my native language) and sometimes is hard to understand the yells of the leader
*Because we LOVE to play at our own pace, and it's hard to do with stangers.


Anyhow, i d like to express my thankfullness, for the advices and the support.

[samthedagger]

Here's a bit of advice if you are interested.

1) Create an LFM stating that you are a casual player and would like to take things at an easy pace. I would say something to the effect of "2 casual players LFM to run quests. all optionals." Then see where that takes you.
2) If you join someone else's group avoid those with LFMs that state they are zerging or rushing. It may not be so explicit, but most people give at least some indication as to their play style with their LFM ad. Something as simple as whether the person bothers to use proper spelling, punctuation, and capitalization can indicate to you whether you are dealing with a lazy player who just wants to rush through something or someone who actually took a minute to properly word the LFM.
3) When joining or starting a group with players you do not know, explain the language barrier up front. Say that you don't understand the spoken word very well and that you would prefer the other players to type important information. I have several Europeans on my friends list and I'm happy to take the time to type if it's more than just banter. Your English seems as good as any native speaker in the written form, so at the least, I imagine you should have an easy time expressing yourself.

You'll run into some jerks who might use the language barrier as an excuse to be an ass. But chances are those people would be jerks to anyone they met. But finding some friends that you can regularly group with is a rewarding experience. It's worth weeding through a few jerks to find them.

[krud]

I began this game in a static group of 4. We played much the same way you did; doing most quests only once, at or near level on normal (sometimes hard), and rarely repeating quests. We found it much harder to progress at the higher levels with the same approach we used in the lower levels. Quests at the higher levels seem to need multiple attempts in order to figure out. With fewer high level quests, i guess they were designed to take longer to figure out, in order to stretch the content a bit. It can be frustrating for a group like yours.

I would also suggest grouping with others. If you don't want spoilers, then maybe roll some alts and level them up with others, doing quests you already know. It will give you different perspectives on how to play characters, and tackle problems. You will pick up lots of useful information, that you may not have thought of otherwise. Of course, some will be zergfests, where you don't learn much, but at least they go by fast, and you can continue on in another group, by yourselves, or on your main high level toons.

I will say that if you try to continue as is on your two characters, you will find it harder to continue at the higher levels. There just is not enough content to level up by just doing quests one time each on normal. You will inevitably end up repeating some quests; first it will take multiple tries just to complete some of them once, and again in order to level. Either that or you'll get into character creation by rolling alts. If none of that appeals to you, then unfortunately the game will have run its course.

[sephiroth1084]

Well, for one, your class combos aren't very strong for duoing stuff: you don't have healing, you don't have crowd control and you don't have buffs. Quests can usually get done fairly well without 2 of those, but without 3 even relatively easy quests can be quite difficult.

Very good characters for duoing:
-Warforged Wizard with a level or 2 of rogue (self-healing, buffs, debuffs, traps, crowd control, burst DPS via nuking, and survivability)
-Cleric or Favored Soul; pure works well, 2 monk works well, 1 fighter on the cleric works well (can emphasize melee ability in addition to healing, or offensive casting, or defense with different combinations, but all will be good at healing and reasonable buffers)
-Paladin with both AC and DPS; can go pure, or Pal x/fighter 2 or Rogue 2 or Monk 2 (self-healing, defense, moderate DPS, high burst DPS, survivability, and possibly intimidate for melee-based crowd control)
-Tukaw build; think it's WF Sorcerer x/2 paladin/2 fighter maybe? (melee DPS, spell DPS, buffs, some crowd control, self-healing, survivability)
-Bard w/ 1 or 2 rogue (melee, CC, healing, buffing, traps)

-another good subset of options is to make sure that both party members have stealth capability, and try sneaking past most stuff.

There's a theme here: when you have fewer members in a group, those members have to be able to fulfill more roles and be more self-sustainable. A fighter is generally pretty poor at that (I solo a bit on my twinked-out, True Reincarnated fighter, but not much because I know just how poor he is at taking care of himself, and how much trouble he has with some situations, such as lots of casters).


The other option (much easier) is to group. Quests get much easier when you've got 6 people running them, because characters don't need to fulfill multiple roles, and can specialize further, making each individual more potent, while creating a group that is stronger than the sum of its individual parts.

If you like to take your time through quests, say so in your LFMs (and make sure those who join understand), or join a guild that also emphasizes this playstyle.

[hecate355]

Indeed, those classes arent good to solo with by default. About hitting the wall...dont get me wrong, but, not everything is meant to be easy or duoable, it needs extra effort, makes sense, doesent it? You built your own wall basically, not critizising your playstyle, but there are objective limits on what can and cant be done. Find players with similar playstyle, its not that hard, or...if you still wanna keep duoing, tweak it, tweak it more, reroll into selfhealing melee/caster. Wands are cool, but not good enough.
Once again, reroll, then reroll more believe me its important part of learning. Nothing prevents having fun same way you currently are while rerolling new chars and trying new ideas.

[Halaryel]

Coucou poussin,

i'm building my barD, spellsinger, just for you and ease your pain,

i promise not to zerg and always stay behind and let you solve the puzzle,

i hope you will forgive me for using my wealth to buy tons of Heal scroll and cure wand,

you can use me as a mobile shrine if you please

i'll be your ***** and you'll break this wall.

I miss you both.

Really.

ps: when i told you she should have roll a barbarian it was about the DR which help immensely at later level. once she get Warforged through FP (is that even possible) maybe she can TR into a warforged, and ill make another ton just for you.

[karnokvolrath]

Well i for one have mostly noticed hitting a wall usally at little but never at 14th, mine comes around 9th (because no gianthold yet), and then again at about 18th because ive ran the vale/meridia into the ground and i dont know the higher areas very well due to time off when they where released....but thats me.

[sirdanile]

* We try to do all the missions avalaible in order (not setting a foot in Gianhold before finishing desert)

* We are not over stuffed. (equpping ourselves on our own)

* we absolutely, totally HATE zerging

1. I highly suggest skipping on to gianthold, the xp rate increases exponentially while there, though it is safe to say desert isnt horrible, the enemies hit for less damage but take longer to kill, there are more open area situations where you have a higher chance of survival.

2. Buy yourselves paralyzing weapons and love them, vorpals are good if you can afford them as well but paralyzing is one of the best for soloing at that range. Being "Overstuffed* isnt a bad thing, it makes you more able to survive.

3. Thing about "zerging" is, buffs are on a timer...
You could be anti-speed, which I completely do not comprehend OR
You could be anti running in and dieing without a second thought, which I agree with.


4. (not based upon quoted text) You can find an arcane hireling and a cleric hireling and use them both, the arcane gives you haste and arcane firepower which will make things go much more smoothly.