My First Monk

[BoBoDaClown]

Hey guys,

I want to build my first Monk with the following priorities:
1) DPS
2) Still have some effectiveness with Monk tricks.
3) Survivability

This toon will be TRed once it reaches 20, so it is mainly a levelling toon.

20 Halfling Dark Monk ----> I can be persuaded to do a different race.
Str: 14 ---> Str Based. Level Ups here. I know Halflings take a penalty here, but they do also gain +1 to hit.
Dex: 16----> So a tome opens up greater wind stance.
Con: 14
Wis: 16---> Trying to keep highesh to land stunning fists. Is it worthwhile, since I won't be putting in level ups?

I had difficulty with feats:

Feats:
1) TWF
1) Toughness
2) Stunning Fist
3) Power attack
3) Darkness
6) Stunning Blow - Is this worth it - I figured another small chance for stun would be good?
6) Toughness - What would be a better feat? I went with extra hp through a second toughness.
9) ITWF
12) IC: Bludge
15) GTWF
18) ANother toughness/dodge?

How does that look? Any advice will be taken on board.

Cheers!

[BoBoDaClown]

It's all good?

I know countles builds have been posted before; doesn't mean I want to run the risk of missing something obvious...

Cheers!

[Vass654]

I would personally get IC as quickly as you can, but thats just me. Also not a fan of Halflings, but they do make good monks, just not my thing. (They squeak too much. No. Seriously. It annoys me with how much they squeak. They sound like a 12 year old boy breathing helium while getting kicked in the balls.)

Also, from what I keep seeing, weighted doesn't help with Stunning Blow/Fist so take it as you will. 5%s work nicely anyways, especially when combined with special strikes, seem to activate a bit more on those Ki strikes for me.

Just be sure to take all your little + sneak attack things.

[unbongwah]

I've never played a dark monk before, but IIUC one of their issues is most if not all of their finishers have DCs which are based on WIS. So if you're not playing a WIS-based monk, you might have trouble keeping your DCs high enough to land (also an issue with Stunning Fist). Might still be worth it for the other dark monk benefits, though.

[Impatiens]

I've never played a dark monk before, but IIUC one of their issues is most if not all of their finishers have DCs which are based on WIS. So if you're not playing a WIS-based monk, you might have trouble keeping your DCs high enough to land (also an issue with Stunning Fist). Might still be worth it for the other dark monk benefits, though.

This is true, though the finishers take your whole monk level into account rather than just half like Stunning Fist does.

To the OP: your stat allocation seems fine. I would honestly recommend going light path for a first monk though, especially since you listed survivability as one of your main concerns. I really like dark path, but light is more survivable (unless you want to be using a lot of consumables) and has some nice buffs for your party.

You might consider looking at taking the halfling dragonmarks for more survivability instead of stunning blow (not really worth it in my mind) and the two extra toughness feats. Not necessary by any means, but something to consider since you seem to have a few feats you don't know what to do with.

[Jamma]

I'd go 16 con and 14 wis for GM earth. A lot of builds have Weapon focus bludgeoning for a feat.I'd swap stunning blow and stunning fist for toughness feats on this build. You can also do dragonmarks, but they kind of suck for monks due to the feat progression limitations. Really the only decent dragonmark is the greater one, and if you take that at 9, it pushes your TWF advancements back 3 levels minimum. Alternatively your GDM gets pushed back, keeping you from actually using it for a lot of levels.

[Impatiens]

I'd go 16 con and 14 wis for GM earth. And scrap the stunning fist/stunning blow for more toughness, or those two + the toughness for the dragonmarks, which would arguably provide a better benefit.

I agree with this, especially if you decide to go light path and don't need as much wisdom for the dark finisher DCs. being able to get GM earth with just a +2 tome is really nice. Definitely drop stunning blow though, and consider the dragonmarks for the feats yo are unsure of.

[entropiccanuck]

If you're going to hang out at 20 much before your TR, consider swapping your wis and con scores as others have suggested. If you're going to TR pretty soon after 20, since you can only get GM Earth at lvl 18, the extra wis may be preferable.

Depending on how concerned you are with survivability, the halfling Dragonmarks can be useful. Consider dropping stunning blow, the 2nd toughness, and moving imp. crit to 18 to pick them up. (Your crits mostly come from stunned mobs, so crit threat range is mostly irrelevant.) The heals have saved me a few times, and my team members more. Even the first dragonmark feat is useful for bringing back incapacitated team mates, especially if you're dark and don't have the heal finisher.

[BoBoDaClown]

Thank you for the replies guys.

I want dps to be my top priority, thus I chose dark, for the natural 20 strikes (sorry I don't know the terminology yet). Was this not a wise choice?

I want to have survivability, as in, not forgo it completely. I would have thought this build could reach trash AC? Problem is, that while I have experience building AC characters, I'm not entirely sure how Monk bonuses work.

What's the advantage of dropping wis for con, i.e. water for earth. Is it that my wis based DC will be so low anyway that GM water isn't worth it, while earth is the crit based line? (sorry if I'm off here, only done some preliminary reading...)

I could try working in the DMs, but I won't be able to get the third tier until level 18, since DPS is my top priority. However, it might be worth it over the extra toughness feats/stunning blow.

So,
1) I think I'll keep dark, because it hits harder, and I will still have some measure of trash AC (60ish endgame right?). Plus dark sounds cooler ;p
2) I should swap con for wis, because GM earth will be more valuable on this build?
3) I may work a little self healing in, but I'm unwilling to move the dps feats back.

Everything else look good?

What does more damage on a stunned opponent?
Earth stance (with crit finishers) or Wind Stance due to the extra attacks? i.e. If you were wielding 5% weighted, what stance would you be in?

How much do I need to worry about concentration? Do you:
a) Max skillpoints - I assume.
b) Wear an item - I assume you do.
c) Enhancements - is it worth the cost?

Thank you very much all!!

[BoBoDaClown]

If you're going to hang out at 20 much before your TR, consider swapping your wis and con scores as others have suggested. If you're going to TR pretty soon after 20, since you can only get GM Earth at lvl 18, the extra wis may be preferable.

Depending on how concerned you are with survivability, the halfling Dragonmarks can be useful. Consider dropping stunning blow, the 2nd toughness, and moving imp. crit to 18 to pick them up. (Your crits mostly come from stunned mobs, so crit threat range is mostly irrelevant.) The heals have saved me a few times, and my team members more. Even the first dragonmark feat is useful for bringing back incapacitated team mates, especially if you're dark and don't have the heal finisher.

---not sure about how soon I will TR; depends on other projects
---It is very interesting thought, dropping IC; almost alien to me ;p Which is why I came here for Monk help. It is an interesting tradeoff, when to bring in the healing versus the little extra dps granted by IC - something to think about.

Cheers mate

[Eurytos]

Your build looks good to start with. Just be aware that Stunning Fist and Stunning Blow will stop landing on things once you reach the 18-20 range, even on normal. You'll be better off swapping those out for more toughness since monks hurt for HP and weighted 5% wraps will stun more reliably than stunning blow/fist. (My Monk at 20 has neither feat.)

That being said, your monk will be fine leveling up as your DCs will be ok for mid levels and your high wisdom will also add to your AC for leveling up. A Lesser Reincarnate might be in order for when you reach 20 and start gearing up though.

At 20, I redid the stats on my monk to max STR, 16 dex for GTWF with tome and highest CON i could afford. WIS became a dump stat. You're right about GM Earth being more beneficial than GM Ocean. Earth Strike IV is quite handy.

For Skills: Max Concentration for sure. Anything else becomes your choice.

Stunning Blow:
Even if you maxed wisdom, you would never reach a DC high enough for this to be reliable.

10 Base
10 Half Monk Level
10 30 Wisdom, you'd be crazy to get this high, you would gimp your damage and to-hit
---------
30 DC. Not going to land on anything worthwhile, sorry. Definitely worthless on epic and even some hard/elites.

To put that DC into perspective, Barbarians and Fighters can reach the high 40s without even trying. A Stun spec'd fighter with weighted warhammers can reach 50s.

Leveling up though, you'll be able to stun things, but everything you fight leveling up will die fast enough that you don't need to stun it!

[BoBoDaClown]

Your build looks good to start with. Just be aware that Stunning Fist and Stunning Blow will stop landing on things once you reach the 18-20 range, even on normal. You'll be better off swapping those out for more toughness since monks hurt for HP and weighted 5% wraps will stun more reliably than stunning blow/fist. (My Monk at 20 has neither feat.)

That being said, your monk will be fine leveling up as your DCs will be ok for mid levels and your high wisdom will also add to your AC for leveling up. A Lesser Reincarnate might be in order for when you reach 20 and start gearing up though.

At 20, I redid the stats on my monk to max STR, 16 dex for GTWF with tome and highest CON i could afford. WIS became a dump stat. You're right about GM Earth being more beneficial than GM Ocean. Earth Strike IV is quite handy.

For Skills: Max Concentration for sure. Anything else becomes your choice.

Stunning Blow:
Even if you maxed wisdom, you would never reach a DC high enough for this to be reliable.

10 Base
10 Half Monk Level
10 30 Wisdom, you'd be crazy to get this high, you would gimp your damage and to-hit
---------
30 DC. Not going to land on anything worthwhile, sorry. Definitely worthless on epic and even some hard/elites.

To put that DC into perspective, Barbarians and Fighters can reach the high 40s without even trying. A Stun spec'd fighter with weighted warhammers can reach 50s.

Leveling up though, you'll be able to stun things, but everything you fight leveling up will die fast enough that you don't need to stun it!

Awesome. Some good advice there

[Impatiens]

What does more damage on a stunned opponent?
Earth stance (with crit finishers) or Wind Stance due to the extra attacks? i.e. If you were wielding 5% weighted, what stance would you be in?

How much do I need to worry about concentration? Do you:
a) Max skillpoints - I assume.
b) Wear an item - I assume you do.
c) Enhancements - is it worth the cost?

You will pretty much always be in wind stance, though if you are hasted and need ki switching to fire stance is not a bad idea. You go GM mountain for the strike, not the stance, you can use the earth strikes and crit finishers in wind stance too.

Definitely max skill points in concentration and try to pick up an item (the shintao cord from Amrath has +15 concentration on it and +6 con). On my human monk I have the enhancements, but since you'll be going halfling you have a lot of APs you need to spend to get the guile line. You'll probably have to put AP into the first tier of concentration enhancements for lack of better options, but you definitely don't need to get all of them.

[BoBoDaClown]

You will pretty much always be in wind stance, though if you are hasted and need ki switching to fire stance is not a bad idea. You go GM mountain for the strike, not the stance, you can use the earth strikes and crit finishers in wind stance too.

That makes sense.

Now I need to make him/her.

Cheers

[manfredshw]

Use your finish move more and wisely.
It's very important for a dark monk.

Keep doing it, I have the hope to see a good dark monk arising.