clueless newbie looking for advice on bard with some barb on the side

[hethyba]

I'm a new player still wrapping my head around the game and build mechanics, and I'd appreciate some help getting my baby bard off to a good start. I still only have access to 28 point builds, and no stash of uber leet twink gear. I have a couple of friends that I play with, but also do a fair amount of soloing, though not set on being able to solo extensively with this particular character.

Anyway, I'm looking to build a warforged bard (most likely of the warchanter variety) crossed with a bit of barbarian, because it seems like fun, and the notion of a big ugly uncivilized buffer/healer who can lay some smackdown of his own is reminiscent of my favourite monster character in LotRO. Different game, different character, certainly not expecting to play the same way or fill quite the same group role, it's just a flavor thing as to why I'm choosing this particular race/class combination.

So, I'd love to get some suggestions on how to build such a beast.

1. Thoughts on ideal bard to barb ratio, and at what point to fit barb levels in? I'd like to be mainly bard, but not sure whether to take just a 1 level splash of barb, or go for somewhere between 2-5 levels.

2. Thoughts on stat distribution and feat choices? I went with 16/8/18/10/6/12 on my initial roll, but still level 1 and can very easily reroll.

3. Other suggestions?

[Shishizaru]

I'm a new player still wrapping my head around the game and build mechanics, and I'd appreciate some help getting my baby bard off to a good start. I still only have access to 28 point builds, and no stash of uber leet twink gear. I have a couple of friends that I play with, but also do a fair amount of soloing, though not set on being able to solo extensively with this particular character.

Anyway, I'm looking to build a warforged bard (most likely of the warchanter variety) crossed with a bit of barbarian, because it seems like fun, and the notion of a big ugly uncivilized buffer/healer who can lay some smackdown of his own is reminiscent of my favourite monster character in LotRO. Different game, different character, certainly not expecting to play the same way or fill quite the same group role, it's just a flavor thing as to why I'm choosing this particular race/class combination.

So, I'd love to get some suggestions on how to build such a beast.

1. Thoughts on ideal bard to barb ratio, and at what point to fit barb levels in? I'd like to be mainly bard, but not sure whether to take just a 1 level splash of barb, or go for somewhere between 2-5 levels.

2. Thoughts on stat distribution and feat choices? I went with 16/8/18/10/6/12 on my initial roll, but still level 1 and can very easily reroll.

3. Other suggestions?

1) I'm not particularly well versed in this multiclass (although I'd like to try one out), but I believe they are fairly Barbarian heavy (as in, more then 2 levels). If you wanted a 2 level splash, Fighter makes more logistical sense (and 18/2 Bard/Fighter is a tried an true Warchanter build). Fighter does lose out on the whole uncivilized brute thing though. Rogue is also a common splash (2 levels) for trap skills and Evasion (increased survivability despite lower HP).

If splashing something else (be it Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue, w/e), 18 is a good place to cut your Bard levels. Bard 19 gives next to nothing and you're missing the Capstone with the splash anyways.

Often suggested to take the Barb/Fighter levels early (level 2). Bard will get more skill points at creation, so Bard 1 makes more sense. Taking Barb/Fighter at 2 means you get Martial Proficiencies earlier. If taking any Rogue levels, please take Rogue at level 1 (since they beat out even Bards in the extra skill points category).

2) Note that 8 DEX implies you are going THF (Two-Handed Fighting, i.e. big two-hander weapons). There's nothing inherently wrong with THF, but the general consensus is that TWF (Two-Weapon Fighting, i.e. dual-wielding) comes out on top DPS wise. Especially with your Bards songs/buffs in effect, two hands tend to be better then just one.

Two-handers also have the side-effect of hitting many things at once, in a kind of AoE swing thing. This could be good or bad depending. Good if you're aiming to max out your DPS. Bad in that your AC (Armor Class) probably sucks and with mainly Bard levels, you will be rather squishy (lower on the HP scale). Hitting many things, especially things that aren't being attacked by other players, means things are mad at you and will hit you.

3) Common new player pitfalls:

-CON is not a dump stat. 14 is a general minimum. Hooray for you for not falling for that one. (WF helps too haha)
-Toughness is more or less a required feat. Take it and love it.
-Max out your Bard songs in terms of +attack and +damage and your groups will (or should) love you regardless of whether you're THF or TWF. Haste is a plus too.

-http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=159030
Fairly detailed post on a WF Bard build (going with a more or less standard 18/2 Fighter splash)

[hethyba]

Hmm, I'm open to persuasion regarding the level ratio. I just was thinking it would be nice to have my buffs be as nice as I can reasonably get them without going pure bard.

I am also willing to be persuaded to take fighter (or fighter/rogue, or whatever), instead of barb, but barb has flavor appeal over fighter for this particular character so it would have to be pretty persuasive.

With regard to THF vs TWF, if I had 32 point builds unlocked I'd probably go for the two weapon style. As it is, I figured I just didn't have the points to spare on dex without knowing what I was going to get access to later in terms of stat boosts. I figured pumping str and con, with a moderate cha score, and going two-handed was the safer (build-wise, not health-bar-wise, lol) option in my untwinked state.

Thank you for the feedback!

[unbongwah]

I've seen three basic "Bardbarian" builds so far:

Barbarian 12 / bard 8: Mostly focused on melee DPS, but bard 8 provides some light buffs & backup heals (lvl 3 spells) and a decent boost from Inspire Courage.

Barb 6 / bard 14: Less DPS, more buffs & heals (lvl 5 spells), next bump to Courage.

Barb 2 / bard 16 / xxx 2: this just splashes barb for the movement speed and a couple of Rages then adds 2 levels of something else to round it out - e.g., rogue 2 for trap skills & Evasion, fighter 2 for extra feats. Not a fan of barb splashes myself, but a number of people have praised it as fun & effective.

Could also do something like, say, barb 6 / ftr 6 / bard 8. Dunno how well that would work.

As Shishizaru mentioned, 2WF is considered optimal for Warchanters because Courage provides a flat boost to dmg per hit; so more hits means more DPS. However, you look like you're on a 28-pt build, and it's tough to do a good 2WF bard with only 28 pts and no tomes. And Frenzied Berserker boosts your 2H glancing blows chance; that combined with WF 2HF enhancements means it ain't all bad. If you enjoy 2HF, I say stick with it.

The bigger issue will be AC: yours will suck, especially with DEX as a dump stat and while Raging. You'll rely on Blur / Displacement to keep from getting hit and DR (either from barb, WF, or Ironskin Chant, depending on how you're built) to mitigate the hits a bit. Remember you can't cast spells while Raging, so you'll need some other way of healing yourself mid-battles.

[therobb]

2 Fighter / 6 Barb / 12 Bard

Fighter levels for the bonus feats. Take power attack and cleave to qualify for frenzied barb 1.

At higher levels, mobs become increasingly hard to hit. You'll need to focus on a very high strength if two handed fighting (my recommendation as it suits your RP and the warforged race) or very high dex and the weapon finesse feat if two-weapon fighting if you want to actually hit stuff consistently.

I put together a 28 point warforged using this approach. Has the full two-handed fighting line, power attack, toughness, extend spell (important for your key buffs to last) and mental toughness to make up for the limited spell point pool of going only 12 bard.

Looks like a really fun build. Not optimal uber leet, but fun and fairly effective.

One last note: I like the warforged aspect of this but it might be a stronger build as a human. If you're going to self heal yourself with cure spells, a human gives you a bonus while the warforged has a signifcant penalty. Either way it looks like fun.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Neutral Good Warforged Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Barbarian \ 12 Bard) 
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 512 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 9
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    17
Bluff                 2                     2
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             2                     2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                6                    25
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            2                     2
Jump                  5                    22
Listen                3                     3
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               6                    25
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                1                     1
Use Magic Device      6                    25

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Barbarian)


Level 5 (Barbarian)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 7 (Barbarian)


Level 8 (Barbarian)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Barbarian)


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (1): Summon Monster I


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Rage


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste


Level 16 (Bard)
Spell (3): Good Hope


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (3): See Invisibility


Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (4): Dimension Door


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I

[ragwa1]

brd16/brb2/ftr2

[unbongwah]

2 Fighter / 6 Barb / 12 Bard

Bard 12 is not an optimal cutoff IMHO: you give up lvl 5 spells and your next bump in Courage for 2 extra feats. Granted, bardbarians are a bit feat-starved, but you could drop, say, Mental Toughness and GTHF without sacrificing too much.

[Eladiun]

I was partial to this one...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=236283

[hethyba]

Hmm, I think the bard 16 barb 2 fighter 2 wins out for me. Looks fun and has the necessary URG SMAAAAAASH! appeal. I'll go with it and see how it works out. Thanks for the input.

[Rudedawg14]

When taking splash of 2 barb with 18 bard what's the longest you could get your Rage from Barb to last?

At 2 Barb it's 1 minute with enhancements from Barb line.

Can you get it to last longer with extend?