figther/ pally build? comments plz

[Choopak]

I look on this board to find a figther/ pally buils to suit my desire... but could'nt find any, odds??
so heres what i'm interested in: figther 12 (kensai II)/ pally 8 good DPS using THF weapon line, figther feats to boost damage and pally abilities to heal (mostly) and up DPS even more.
Basicly i'm using the pally part to help me survive, 3 LoH per rest is enough to keep you alive (don't wanna be a mana sponge)
So guys what you think? And how would you built it?

[AylinIsAwesome]

There's no reason to go Paladin 8.

If you want the good saves, you just need Paladin 2. That would still get you Kensei and the improved critical range that offers.

[Shaftronics]

As someone who re-rolled paladin a few times, my opinion on the matter is to simply just go full Paladin. There's no real reason not to. The more Paladin levels you have, the more effective your Smite Evil and LoH's are. I have both a 12 Fighter/6 Ranger/2 Rouge on the works and a Paladin, and I always compare the two.

The first build can reach high levels of UMD without any issue, can use cure serious wands in a synch and in later levels, effectively use other wands and scrolls. I love the utility, flexibility and it has very high DPS without using any active feats or skills.

However, that's all it can do. A Paladin can use Smite Evil, effectively one of the most damaging skills you'll use in your first 10 levels or so. Paired up with Divine Sacrifice, you can effectively be dishing out just as much, if not more, damage to the enemies that actually matter, while having the aura bonuses and charisma bonuses to improve your fighting as compared to a Fighter of the same level. Also, with the number of Evil Outsiders later on, the Paladin Knight of The Chalice enhancement will boost your DPS even further (I think its still bugged to work against undead) as well.

Sure, Paladins don't get Kensei, but we have Divine Might to make up for some damage capability. Having a high inherent save is always a bonus. The only reason you would combine a Paladin and a Fighter is probably if you're going for the Defender prestige enhancement, and even then, only 2 levels of fighter, for a feat and for tower shield proficiency, is advised.

There's plenty of reasons to stay being a Paladin. Disease immunity, fear immunity, high saves, aura buffing everyone around you, Lay on Hands for that extra "150 - 300" hp in emergencies and later on, you can use a Lay on Hands turn to even raise a dead party member. Its one thing you can't do as the build you want.

If you are adamant on having a support/healing role while having good damage, I suggest going Paladin all the way so you still get spell points, as well as spell point enhancements. You can always use wands as well to mitigate some SP usage. That's just me and my 2 cents. =3

[Choopak]

Thanks for your fast responses, i know full pally cab dish out good THF damge (spec if going WF) but i was thinking about Kensai II for doing damage. The way i see it, pally 8 give me 3 LoH in case of emergency, better saves and few others tricks. I started with a pure fighter, but was tired of spending all my plat on healing pots.

[Ultrazen]

What to splash (if anything) and how much, is a tough question with a Palie, as you really do lose something every level of Palie you don't take. If you're going to go the TWF route, it can be useful to throw a monk or rogue splash in for evasion, since your saves are so high. The rogue splash will give the haste boost, as well as access to UMD as a class skill plus evasion, so there is certainly at least an argument for it.

I'm actually in the process of leveling a Palie/ranger/monk combo at the moment, and I will say it's a great toon so far. I have a pure palie, so thought I'd goof around with a hybrid build. There are some important break points for Palies if you are going to splash, and depending on what pres you want etc.

I'd have to say that palies are one of the tougher classes to multi, due to needing so many different stats.

There are a few interesting multi builds floating around on the forums that include palie levels, take a look at some of those and it might give you a few more ideas as to level splits etc.

Actually, scroll down a bit and check out the Hurtlocker build, you might find that interesting, at the very least there is some good discussion in that thread about multis in general.

[gavagai]

Thanks for your fast responses, i know full pally cab dish out good THF damge (spec if going WF) but i was thinking about Kensai II for doing damage. The way i see it, pally 8 give me 3 LoH in case of emergency, better saves and few others tricks. I started with a pure fighter, but was tired of spending all my plat on healing pots.

The value of the LoH is going to diminish, especially with only 8 Paladin levels. It would be mostly a low-level luxury.

The LoH formula is (10 + Paladin level) x Charisma Bonus. So if you go for a reasonably low CHA to keep your main combat stats up (say, 12), at level 20 you'll be looking at (18 x 6 [22CHA]) 108 hps, 3x per rest. A 2 level rogue splash and/or SF: UMD will allow you to self-cast heal scrolls for the same amount, an unlimited times per day.

Otherwise, its hard to balance the value of Kensai III against Divine Might I, Divine Sacrifice, and Exalted I. The clickies are fun, and (unlike Kensai III) all add damage against crit-immunes. But they are also less DPS, and on a THF with a substantial STR bonus I think the extra crits are much more significant.

But if this is a leveling character and not an endgame design, I don't see any harm. Once you get a character to level 13, you'll start getting enough high value loot drops that you can twink other characters that are currently having troubles affording all their pots.

[Shaftronics]

With Exalted Smite and Divine Sacrifice adding a multiplier to your crits, I do think its a fair tradeoff.

Well, every class or build has its pros and cons. You just have to pick those you can deal with. Paladins are great to level with, can hold on their own, emergency heal, still deal alot of damage with smites and divine sacrifices, can self-buff, but are lacking behind on the DPS department for a bit. But they can still hold their own with DPS, as long as you can hold up the self buffs and spamming the offensive clicky skills.

Fighters have high HP, higher crit range and confirmation with Kensei, meaning more DPS and with less clickies to use, not including the usual ones on items, meaning they're significantly easier to use without much micro-management, just making sure you have the proper weapons and positioning, while a Paladin has to ensure (if he wants DPS) that he has Divine Might on and has to constantly work on the Smites and Divine Sacrifices. But at the end of the day, that's still DPS, and you can have a powerful Lay on Hands. In addition, you can use Cure wands with NO UMD check. that's a plus when compared to Fighter, since you can focus your skill points on say balance, perhaps, considering the builds are not going to have more than 10 Intelligence.

If you want DPS, go for fighter. But if you want to deal DPS while having supportive advantages, go for Paladin. There's no real effective multi-class without sacrificing too much from either class. Paladins as Melee classes still get the same BAB as a fighter anyway.

[zealous]

I love the utility, flexibility and it has very high DPS without using any active feats or skills.

Do you use haste boost?

Otherwise, its hard to balance the value of Kensai III against Divine Might I, Divine Sacrifice, and Exalted I. The clickies are fun, and (unlike Kensai III) all add damage against crit-immunes. But they are also less DPS, and on a THF with a substantial STR bonus I think the extra crits are much more significant.

DF: 2-2.7 damage/attack-activation in prolonged fights
DM:2-2.7 damage/attack-activation in prolonged fights
Dsac:~3-5 damage/attack, up to 7.5 for 2h falchion

KensaiIII: ~6damage/attack 2wf, ~9damage/attack, affected by fortification

[Shaftronics]

Of course I throw haste boosts here and there. I mostly meant that its not too dependant on them all the time. You use it when its available or when required. But you definately don't have to micromanage multiple short-term buffs on yourself.

[zealous]

Of course I throw haste boosts here and there. I mostly meant that its not too dependant on them all the time. You use it when its available or when required. But you definately don't have to micromanage multiple short-term buffs on yourself.

Ah, but haste boost composes more than 20% of fighter DPS. And cranking the most out of it requires intimate judgement and quest knowledge.

At the same time for a pally, smites are fairly minor, the buffs have a long duration so it's just a matter of keeping them up and between baubles and similar, you won't be limited in uses except for DM.

If you look at it from another point of view

[Shaftronics]

Ah, but haste boost composes more than 20% of fighter DPS. And cranking the most out of it requires intimate judgement and quest knowledge.

At the same time for a pally, smites are fairly minor, the buffs have a long duration so it's just a matter of keeping them up and between baubles and similar, you won't be limited in uses except for DM.

If you look at it from another point of view

Of course. If you attack 20% Faster, that's effectively that much more DPS... Provided the target doesn't move around too much.

Aye, I was going to mention that its great when used against the correct monsters (not quick trash mobs that you'd probably spend half the duration while running + attacking or getting to it in the first place) and its judgement as well, to see if shrines are going to be used, etc....

But yes, another POV or semantics. XD