could I get some Critique on this please?

[flaggson]

Hi... I don't normally post my builds and ask for help on these forums but my experience with paladins are nominal at best... was wondering if I could get a little constructive criticism.

True Res. (was fighter)

Grazzit The Destroyer
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(17 Paladin / 2 Monk / 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 339 (504 w/gfl, greensteel, con item, and draconic energy)
Spell Points: 262 (508(ish?) w/ torc, greensteel goggles, and wis item)

BAB: 18/18/23/2828
Base attack on first hit:
18+9str
+5weapon
+5divine favor
+4 greater heroism
+2 tumbleweed
---------------------
43
-9 pa and 2weapon
---------------------
+34 to hit

Fortitude: 31 +5 resist item +4 gh =40
Reflex: 30 +5 resist +4 gh = 39
Will: 25 +5 resist +4 gh = 34

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(30 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22 (28) 30-32 w/madstone
Dexterity 15 18 (24)
Constitution 12 14 (20)
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 9 12 (18)
Charisma 17 22 (28)

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 11
Diplomacy 2 5
Haggle 6 9
Heal 2 17
Jump 7 12
Spot 4 8
Swim 3 6
Tumble 7 9
UMD 6 35 +concordant +gh = 42

Notable Equipment
Madstone Boots
Minos Legens
Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II
Dragontouched Armor w/+6 con on it and greater False Life
Bloodstone
Leviks Bracers
Charismatic Ring
Tumbleweed
Triple Negative Greenweave gloves: (+45 hitpoints… and auto Finger of Death on hit)
Cloak of Curses
Cloak of Resistance
Concordant Opposition Goggles (+6 wisdom and +150sp, among other things )

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 2 (Paladin)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh

Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack

Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device

Level 7 (Paladin)

Level 8 (Paladin)

Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 10 (Paladin)

Level 11 (Paladin)

Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Paladin)

Level 14 (Paladin)

Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell

Level 16 (Paladin)

Level 17 (Paladin)

Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 19 (Paladin)

Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhanceement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II


ok.. well I know HotD isn't a real popular choice... but for this build I think it might be the right way to go? Although I'm not completely convinced.
SP regen and quickened heals that hit fairly hard due to the prestige/leviks/ and devotion. I really need to fit in some more guard I know but I'm not completely sure where.
He will have about 18 turn undead attempts for divine Might III. ....
Although I know the strength seems low... with divine might and divine favor going I hope that should make up for it...

Anyway... I'm sure there are tons of holes in this build... and that's why I am coming to all of you thank you for any assistance you can provide

[Goldeneye]

I'm not really experienced with paladins, but here are a few things IMO:

I would do 18 pally / 2 rogue. The monk 2 feats are nice, but you don't want to miss your 3rd level Prestige.

For feats I would do:

1 Paladin (Feat) TWF
3 Paladin (Feat) Power Attack
6 Paladin (Feat) ITWF
9 Paladin (Feat) Improved Critical: Slashing
12 Paladin (Feat) Stunning Blow
15 Paladin (Feat) Extend
18 Paladin (Feat) GTWF

Skill focus UMD / Past Life I don't think are necessary.

I don't know if Drow is the best choice. Since it is a 34 point build, I would be tempted to go Human.

[ddaedelus]

Just a few quick thoughts:

Quicken spell is pretty much useless for a paladin. Your healing is going to depend mostly on your LoH, not your spells. As already suggested, if you really want a spell related feat, extend is probably more valuable (for Zeal).

You're giving up your third rank of PrE for what exactly? I understand the Rogue level is for UMD, and level 2 of monk is for Evasion and the bonus feat, but I think you'd be better served by 2 Rogue (which gets you evasion and UMD) or 2 Monk (which gets you evasion and an extra feat) and your rank 3 PrE than your currently suggested split.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I'd actually say to stick with Drow if you're staying Pure.

You can get stats of 16/16/12/10/8/17 with Drow, but only 16/15/14/8/8/16 with Human.

If you're splashing though, you just need 18 CHA, so Human pulls ahead there with the extra CON.

As Goldeneye said, you don't want to miss out on Tier 3 of the Paladin PrEs. You'll want Knight of the Chalice though instead of Hunter of the Undead. The final level of it deals an extra 4d6 damage on all attacks, and the set bonus adds 3d6 damage to Evil Outsiders on hits. KotC damage also works on Undead at the moment (unsure about the set bonus since I haven't managed to get it yet).

I'd also advice you think about splashing, and whether or not losing an extra 3d6 damage per attack from the capstone is worth it to you.


If you want to splash and want UMD as a class skill, then go Paladin 18/Rogue 2. If you just want the Evasion then Paladin 18/Monk 2 is best.


I'd also say to drop the Improved Turning enhancements since you'll use them to fuel your Divine Mights, with maybe a Censor Demons here and there. You probably won't need Divine Light either.

You'll want to take Extra Lay on Hands 3 though, and the Sovereign Host advanced faith ability (since it's a pre-req for KotC 3).

The feats Goldeneye mentioned are good, but make it Human and add in Toughness.

[flaggson]

thank you for all the speedy responses... I'll definitely retake a look at my build with all of your recommendations in mind... .... as they say ... back to the drawing board

I'm guessing by all of the responses that the idea of quickened heals with the PrE and items isn't really an effective route to take so I'll take a closer look at KotC... btw you said KotC affects undead as well? is that working as intended? Or is that a known bug? just wondering . Once again thank you all so much for your help.

[AylinIsAwesome]

thank you for all the speedy responses... I'll definitely retake a look at my build with all of your recommendations in mind... .... as they say ... back to the drawing board

I'm guessing by all of the responses that the idea of quickened heals with the PrE and items isn't really an effective route to take so I'll take a closer look at KotC... btw you said KotC affects undead as well? is that working as intended? Or is that a known bug? just wondering . Once again thank you all so much for your help.

That is a known bug.

However, it's been that way for months and as far as I know they have no intention of fixing it.

[flaggson]

awesome... thanks...

but.. .guess I shoulda really scoured the forums more before posting my build... turns out there was already one similar that pretty much does what I was lookin for

Arweyn the Justifier

oh well that's what I get for being to hasty.. thank you all for your help

[Goldeneye]

awesome... thanks...

but.. .guess I shoulda really scoured the forums more before posting my build... turns out there was already one similar that pretty much does what I was lookin for

Arweyn the Justifier

oh well that's what I get for being to hasty.. thank you all for your help

Happens all the time. Sometime it's good to re-post a build for yourself, so you can ask question and debate without de-railing the original poster's thread.

Human / Drow is personal choice. Both work well.
CHA is cheaper to get on Drow, but Humans have more AP, and MUCH MUCH better racial enhancements.