Bonus XP for Party Members

[Xionanx]

5% Bonus XP For each party member beyond the first present AND alive in the quest upon completion. (ALIVE being the key word here)

1 Party Member = Normal XP
2 Party Members = 5% Bonus
3 Party Members = 10% Bonus
4 Party Members = 15% Bonus
5 Party Members = 20% Bonus
6 Party Members = 25% Bonus
12 Party Members = 55% Bonus

Why? Because its EASIER for me to short man or solo a quest then it is for me to bring 5 other party members with me. However, if I were given bonus XP for each party member, I would be more inclined to fill those empty slots.

This servers many functions:

A) Your most experienced players, usually those who have TR'd, will be more likely to bring newer players along with them in quests for the bonus XP to offset the TR penalties.

B) It will encourage everyone to "form more parties" and to open up thier parties to "puggers" so that can get that bonus XP.

C) Big XP quests, such as raids, that dont get run very often at "level appropriate" levels, would become even more rewarding to those willing to organize a 12 man raid and run them.

D) It will give players a reason to the difficulty increase that dungeon scaling imposes as you add more party members. Currently, it is easier to solo for "Full" XP then it is to 6 man for the exact same XP. RISK/REWARD ratio says its better to solo or short man under the current XP system.

[rest]

Would hirelings count?



Honestly, even with 25% bonus to xp, it would be easier to just solo a quest twice and get more than the "bonus" you propose than to drag 5 awful people through a quest.

[Bogenbroom]

I do not hate this idea. I might disagree with the exact scale you put forth, but the idea has merit.

I might also toss out that I am not sure a raid necessarily needs this sort of scaling. JMHO.

[Montrose]

5% Bonus XP For each party member beyond the first present AND alive in the quest upon completion. (ALIVE being the key word here)

1 Party Member = Normal XP
2 Party Members = 5% Bonus
3 Party Members = 10% Bonus
4 Party Members = 15% Bonus
5 Party Members = 20% Bonus
6 Party Members = 25% Bonus
12 Party Members = 55% Bonus

Why? Because its EASIER for me to short man or solo a quest then it is for me to bring 5 other party members with me. However, if I were given bonus XP for each party member, I would be more inclined to fill those empty slots.

This servers many functions:

A) Your most experienced players, usually those who have TR'd, will be more likely to bring newer players along with them in quests for the bonus XP to offset the TR penalties.

B) It will encourage everyone to "form more parties" and to open up thier parties to "puggers" so that can get that bonus XP.

C) Big XP quests, such as raids, that dont get run very often at "level appropriate" levels, would become even more rewarding to those willing to organize a 12 man raid and run them.

D) It will give players a reason to the difficulty increase that dungeon scaling imposes as you add more party members. Currently, it is easier to solo for "Full" XP then it is to 6 man for the exact same XP. RISK/REWARD ratio says its better to solo or short man under the current XP system.

Excellent idea. I've been looking for a reason to create some f2p accounts and installing DDO on my other computers. Now with this change I'll be able to earn 10 or 15% extra exp on every quest and take up more server spots at the same time!

Brilliant!

[Hokiewa]

No...lol, xp is so easily gained as it is. This will never happen and for precisely one of the reasons you mentioned. TR....

[Memnir]

The easiest way to get people forming more groups again would be to remove Dungeon Scaling, quite frankly. And Hirelings kinda scuttle this idea.

I applaud the idea of this, to get people grouping up more, but several of Turbine's design choices have painted themselves into a corner - and one which hubris will make it almost impossible to get out of. But, I really don't see them shoveling more XP into the mix as a solution.

[Angelus_dead]

The easiest way to get people forming more groups again would be to remove Dungeon Scaling, quite frankly.

But you know that won't happen.

What IS a realistic change is to adjust dungeon scaling so that it is smarter and milder, such that additional players are more likely to be an asset than a lodestone. That would probably also involve it becoming more complicated; for example, if scaling reduces monster damage from 30 to 15, that might not only reduce the amount of needed healing by 50%, but also take the chance of a Concentration failure from 50% to zero. So to compensate for that, the scaling might need to adjust damage one way for reducing hitpoints, and another for purposes of concentration... it's a hard problem.

And note that it is very difficult for players to give specific suggestions on how Dungeon Scaling could be changed, since we have little knowledge of what exactly it does. It was only luck that a developer let slip that each class is weighted differently for scaling. For example, it's pretty hard to measure the attack bonus or saving throw of a monster when the game could be changing it around based on factors you don't see. I know that Barnzidu has +45 attack when I am alone, but what about if I'm in a team?

[Xionanx]

Excellent idea. I've been looking for a reason to create some f2p accounts and installing DDO on my other computers. Now with this change I'll be able to earn 10 or 15% extra exp on every quest and take up more server spots at the same time!

Brilliant!

Sadly there are those who already do this for loot farming named items... 6 Accounts, 1 PC, Solo Quest but dont open any chests, load in the other 5 toons, and have a chest opening party..

Multi-accounting is a completely seperate issue turbine needs to address

[Xionanx]

No...lol, xp is so easily gained as it is. This will never happen and for precisely one of the reasons you mentioned. TR....

I have to ask, have you personally leveled a TR toon?

Yes, I can very easily pug a non TR toon to 20. I've gotten so good as squeezing every last drop of good XP out of a quest on my TR toons that I could probably level cap a non-TR in less then 4-5 days. Sadly though, a TR2+ toon is extremely boring/painfull to level beyond 14.

But that too is a completely different issue and should also be adjusted now that more feedback is available for the grind.. I personally cant believe turbine hasn't given a balance pass the the TR grind yet considering the XP penalty was more or less completely untested on TR2+ toons when it was implemented, and that a majority of TR2+ players feel its too much.

[Borror0]

1 Party Member = Normal XP
2 Party Members = 5% Bonus
3 Party Members = 10% Bonus
4 Party Members = 15% Bonus
5 Party Members = 20% Bonus
6 Party Members = 25% Bonus
12 Party Members = 55% Bonus

It would be best to start the reward at 2 and stop bonuses at 4 so to not require players to play in full groups. You want to encourage players to play in group, and when there are four players in the group you can effectively say that the players are playing in a group. If they want to more members, that's cool but you don't want to punish them for not wanting anyone more nor encourage them to sit around for two more players instead of playing.

No need for a bonus for raid-sized groups. If you want to encourage people to do raids, just increase the base XP.

[Riggs]

As said, too many issues about xp - reducing scaling would be better for grouping.

And a separate issue - yes TR 2 xp is wayyyy to high. TR 1 60% is bad enough, but 4.25 million is just pain. Esp considering all the new quests have much lower xp to time ratios than lower level quests AND the weighted xp means you cant access the lower level xp that is more plentiful once you actually need it by 18-19.

Claiming that the IQ stuf is 'fast' is a weak argument. It is not the speed, but the repetition penalties that matter. You can run every single quest 7 times and run out of xp - and it doesnt matter how long it took, you wont have enough xp to take a TR from 19-20. You still have to mostly go back to 2 year old content and grind it to death to make up the difference, esp with a TR 2.

Scaling and DA are the real issues for lack of grouping.

If one TR person is zerging ahread, and 5 new people are wandering around agroing more stuff, and having trouble killing it - not only did the extra 5 people not help, they made the exsiting monsters harder, and possibly upped the DA and make the quest take longer than if one person just did it solo.

[skycaptain95]

It would be best to start the reward at 2 and stop bonuses at 4 so to not require players to play in full groups. You want to encourage players to play in group, and when there are four players in the group you can effectively say that the players are playing in a group.

Well said. I often (especially at the low levels) put up LFMs for quests right before I run them, and a few players usually trickle along and join. I almost always never wait for a full group unless it's an especially hard/strange quest for that level. The bonus XP I get for having a smaller group that will be self-sufficient and not die is worth a lot more to me than waiting for more players than I need just so that I can climb to the next level faster. Plus, generally the larger the group is, the more chances there are for someone to die, and lose the 10% XP bonus. IMO, if it comes along easily enough it's worth it, otherwise it's small potatoes.

[Trillea]

I have said it before and will probably say it again - We have casual mode now. GET RID OF DUNGEON SCALING!

[Lleren]

The games I am familiar with that give you "more" exp for a larger group, also tend to divide the exp from a mob among the party members.

DDO is fairly fast paced, waiting for a group to fill would need to be more rewarding then running the quest twice shortman or solo, for an experience bonus to encourage grouping.

Some of us only want to solo.
Some of us group up very rarely
Some of us group only with guildies.
Some of us group up most of the time.
Some of us are in a group from when we log on, to when we log off.
Some of us go out there into the fields of the wild PuG and make it our own.

For some of those types, feeling they have to group to level "efficiently" is an large turn off. The other types already group up, when they feel like it.

[Noctus]

I heartily support this idea.

Not the exact numbers, but the principle is right! (Imho stopping at 4 persons would be fine, but thats just minor details.)

Dungeon Scaling in combination with the 10% XP loss when somebody dies makes soloing much too attractive for people who just want to levels, when they are on a TR and/or simply have been in this dungeon literally dozens and dozens of times before.

Dungeon Scaling and the 10% XP loss are a significant disincentive to group, in a group-based game. There should be a mechanic to counterweight this.

[Lerincho]

The easiest way to get people forming more groups again would be to remove Dungeon Scaling, quite frankly. And Hirelings kinda scuttle this idea.

I applaud the idea of this, to get people grouping up more, but several of Turbine's design choices have painted themselves into a corner - and one which hubris will make it almost impossible to get out of. But, I really don't see them shoveling more XP into the mix as a solution.

actually. Keep dungeon scaling but do it the way it should have been done in the first place. HARDER the fewer people you have. Face it, we all solo'd for a few reasons. 1, faster. 2, challenge.

Besides dungeon scaling doesn't work properly all the time anyways. we've all stepped into a casual setting solo to waste time, and ended up having a harder time than when we had done it on normal or hard by ourselves.

[Cyr]

So dungeon scaling sucks and the idea is to add something on top of it to compensate.

Sounds like DA and lag to me.

Although I do applaud the OP making the effort of trying to come up with a face saving way for Turbine to actually give us a reason to form groups while leveling.

[Borror0]

For some of those types, feeling they have to group to level "efficiently" is an large turn off. The other types already group up, when they feel like it.

That's false. As any MMO developer will tell you, if there are no incentives to group, people don't group - even those who like playing in groups. If there are no incentives to play in group, you might have a large number of player on your server and yet being unable to find players to join your group.

the 10% XP loss when somebody dies

This "bonus" should not exist. It's a strong disincentive to group and not particularly fun either.

[Montrose]

This "bonus" should not exist. It's a strong disincentive to group and not particularly fun either.

Indeed, the only thing that the 10% survival bonus really does is cause bickering and finger-pointing when someone dies.

Previously: "(thinks) Oh, that guy ran ahead and died. Oh well, we'll just grab his stone when we get there and drag him to the next shrine, no big deal."

Now: "(thinks) Oh, that guy ran ahead and died. What a jerk! I'm going to tell him what a jerk he is for costing me experience!"