Etiquette in parties

[Expalphalog]

Based on your comment about Etiquette is not an enforced law... I can tell you haven't really spent any time in many social cliques, where not observing accepted norms will get you ostracized. Bottom line they are rules of the social environment you are currently in.

These rules do differ from social environments, but all do share one similarity, not following them puts you outside the group.

Then, to be perfectly frank, you're running with a bad element. What you've just described is not a healthy environment to be in for anyone. I know that in adolescence this is seen as the norm, but that doesn't make it right. Real friends would never ostracize you for an etiquette faux-pas and those are the only people whose opinions should matter to you.

[Enoach]

Then, to be perfectly frank, you're running with a bad element. What you've just described is not a healthy environment to be in for anyone. I know that in adolescence this is seen as the norm, but that doesn't make it right. Real friends would never ostracize you for an etiquette faux-pas and those are the only people whose opinions should matter to you.

You are confusing the point that etiquette has nothing to do with friendship.

Your parents raised you well to about Real friends. But in social societies that we move between, in many cases the majority are not friends, even by a loose definition.

Examples:

Work place - unless where you work employs very few people it is unlikely that you are friends with any of them, and even rarer that your are Good Friends with any of them. However, you will still care how they perceive you as this will effect how you interact with them.

Etiquette defines how we interact in these environments. If you do not dress appropriately or if you are otherwise seen as detrimental to the social environment (even if you are the stellar employee) there is always a form of ostracism be it small or large.

An other examples of etiquette that cause forms of ostracism deals with the Tradition of sending Christmas Cards - Etiquette dictates that if you receive a card from someone you should send them one. If you don't send them one after a certain amount of not sending one in return people generally stop sending them to you. While you may still meet with these people, socialize etc. As far as Christmas cards you are no longer part of the group.

[Expalphalog]

Work place - unless where you work employs very few people it is unlikely that you are friends with any of them,

True.

However, you will still care how they perceive you as this will effect how you interact with them.

However they hold no power over me and are therefore incapable of punishing me.

I understand what you're saying and do not disagree with you, but I think you and I are just hung up over our personal definitions. To me an "enforced rule" is something that, if broken, will result in punishment. Ostracization (sp?) to me is not a punishment but rather a consequence. The difference being that a consequence is 'a potentially negative reaction' whereas a punishment is 'a predetermined and purposeful set(s) of damages that are quantifiable (usually in time or money).'


But rather than going round and round about the connotations and denotations of these words, I'm curious to hear your response to gerardIII's statement that etiquette 'serves no purpose' without 'actual enforcement.'

[Enoach]

When there is no actual enforcement, "laws/rules/etiquettes" (whatever you call them) are useless.
You can still try of course to convince the few players who read your thread, but ...

True.



However they hold no power over me and are therefore incapable of punishing me.

I understand what you're saying and do not disagree with you, but I think you and I are just hung up over our personal definitions. To me an "enforced rule" is something that, if broken, will result in punishment. Ostracization (sp?) to me is not a punishment but rather a consequence. The difference being that a consequence is 'a potentially negative reaction' whereas a punishment is 'a predetermined and purposeful set(s) of damages that are quantifiable (usually in time or money).'


But rather than going round and round about the connotations and denotations of these words, I'm curious to hear your response to gerardIII's statement that etiquette 'serves no purpose' without 'actual enforcement.'

gerardIII is actually nearly correct if there is no enforcement then there are NO laws/rules/etiquette - You can't have one without the other.

Enforcement does not always come from formal establishments - Such as a Judicial or a Police force, but many of these laws/rules/etiquette are enforced by the social environments we live in.

Punishment is not just a negative consequence that comes in the form of quantifiable time or money, but could also come in the form of lost position or social standing. The loss of ones reputation or even the diminished reputation has no measurable effect but has an effect non the less. While this may or may not directly effect the person being punished it does taint how others in those social circles interact with them.

The actual problem with Online interactions is that so many are too free with the anonymous state. If we treated each other like neighbors that we shared a fence with and thus saw nearly every day, many behaviors that we see expressed on these forums would not exist.

[dmslasher]

thnx op for the advice now its time to go do the exact opposite of your post i suggest every one do it to drive the OP completely insane =)

[Zorth]

I would like to add one to your list of Joining the party.

-Do not join a quest that is the last in a chain and keep a secret that you are not flagged until the party has mostly filled. Then to try and Ambush the party into doing part I.

[Expalphalog]

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree, Enoach. Perhaps it's naivety, optimism, or just wishful thinking, but I just cannot believe that people would not continue to show social graces without the threat of exile.

Why, just yesterday I sent a 'Thank You' card to someone who I will never see again, who is placed far outside of any social circle I will likely ever come in contact with again, and for a reason that does not mandate formal appreciation. I do these things not because I am afraid of being shunned but because it would make me feel good if someone did this to me.

I agree completely with your last bit though. On one hand, I admire Facebook for effectively removing anonymity from its users... On the other hand, I've read too much Orwell to ever be comfortable with the privacy violations that are now standard operating procedure for many companies.

Have a good weekend, neighbor!

[Enoach]

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree, Enoach. Perhaps it's naivety, optimism, or just wishful thinking, but I just cannot believe that people would not continue to show social graces without the threat of exile.

Why, just yesterday I sent a 'Thank You' card to someone who I will never see again, who is placed far outside of any social circle I will likely ever come in contact with again, and for a reason that does not mandate formal appreciation. I do these things not because I am afraid of being shunned but because it would make me feel good if someone did this to me.

I agree completely with your last bit though. On one hand, I admire Facebook for effectively removing anonymity from its users... On the other hand, I've read too much Orwell to ever be comfortable with the privacy violations that are now standard operating procedure for many companies.

Have a good weekend, neighbor!

It is okay to disagree neighbor. However, I would like to point out that you are your own enforcement of etiquette. Something drove you to send the "Thank you" note. This is most likely part of your up bringing. And because of this the etiquette of sending a thank you note exists in your Social Circle.

Have a good weekend as well.

[Starjumper327]

And though I am a new-ish player to DDO, I've played MMO's in the past and feel like I picked DDO up really fast. I may not understand all the intricacies of the game but surely enough to help a new player get his (I'd say or her, but we all know there are no girls on the internet) grips on the game. *Menacing look*

Wow. You just offended a WHOLE lot of people on the internet.