Pure fighter Kensai Arcane Archer

[Asymetric_War]

*edit* Actually, I was wrong. even though the sorc past life says it gives sp's and fills the mental toughness requirement for AA's it only gives those sp's if yo ualready have sps. so you'd have to splash 2 of a spellcasting class of your choice. sadness.

Original post follows:

what's that you say? pure fighters can't be arcane archers because they're not arcane enough? Au Contrair mon amis! They can if they were a sorc in a past life and I just happen to have a 20 sorc sitting around that I don't play much any more.

this toon would be fully raid geared at 20 so +6 items for all the relevant stats and +3 exceptional (+1 from tod rings and +2 from greensteels) to strength and dex. currently the biggest drawback I'm seeing is that I can't wear both the kensai and AA necklaces since, alas, my poor toon she has only 1 head and 1 neck to hold it up! That small imperfection aside, I'm thinking this looks like a pretty solid build that should be able to easily out-dps a ranger-based arcane archer thanks to the kensai's larger crit range and improved damage multiplier.

but then perhaps i'm missing something obvious, such things do happen from time to time and it is well past 3am and my bed time.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
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Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 362
Spell Points: 145 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 14
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            18                    27
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Prodigy
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Rapid Shot


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Bow Strength


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Kensei Longbow Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Longbow Mastery II
Enhancement: Kensei Longbow Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Longbow Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Longbow Specialization II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

your thoughts, ideas, flaming rants, and even useful ideas would all be greatly appreciated. thanks!

[Aesop]

just so you know Eladrin confirmed that you won't gain the SP from the Sorcerer Past Life Feat and thus can't use any or the AA Imbues that are the major drawing point of AA

Which is why I went 2 Bard (that and for maxed UMD and Diplomacy)


Aesop

[Asymetric_War]

just so you know Eladrin confirmed that you won't gain the SP from the Sorcerer Past Life Feat and thus can't use any or the AA Imbues that are the major drawing point of AA

Which is why I went 2 Bard (that and for maxed UMD and Diplomacy)


Aesop

ah, well that's sucktastic. thanks for letting me know!

[Aesop]

ah, well that's sucktastic. thanks for letting me know!

No problem... it was something I had originally considered also.


but like I said other than the loss of the fighter capstone 2 Bard seems to be a really nice way to go. bard at 1st and 8th level or so

Aesop

[Antheal]

I'm doing something similar except with 2 Cleric levels to be able to use all the Divine wands.

[Mythal]

lol, aesop beat me to it but the first thing i thought of when i saw your enhancements was....wait a second, those imbues cost mana....and fighter isnt gonna get any. sucks ;(

just go ranger. 25% archer alacrity far outweighs 10%. plus you get all those cool spells - resists, rams might, FoM, runspeed, blah blah blah blah, blah...

i see no reason to be an archer if you arent a ranger. you still get full GTWF as a ranger archer anyway, so this build concept is basically just a gimped form of what a ranger would be.

well, the kensai dmg is nice ofc so i take that back, it wont be as fast hitting but it will hit harder.
maybe it works out to be more dps but i think the amount of more dps itll give compared to that ranger archer alacrity is so small that its not so noticeable. and you lose all the ranger abilities (evasion, better saves, and those spells).
not to mention - favored enemy damage of +12 with 5 picks of favored enemies is pretty **** near impossible to beat even with kensai and all those weapon spec feats.
so no. i repeat what i said before. only a ranger arcane archer is even worth building. 5 FE's is plenty that you'll always be hitting FE mobs when it counts.

[rimble]

18 Fighter / 1 Bard / 1 Barbarian

or

18 Fighter / 1 Bard / 1 Ranger

Seem to be the popular choices within this particular idiom. If I do one I'm leaning towards the Ranger version for 1 more free Feat (Bow Strength), but also primarily to have Spot as a class skill.

They are equally competitive to the Ranger version, the primary benefit of the Ranger version is that their main damage bonuses (Ram's Might and Favored Enemies) are weapon agnostic. So you can range Harry, and get those bonuses, or run up and melee him, and continue to get those bonuses. The Fighter loses all his Kensai bonuses when he puts the bow away and switches to melee, so you're really really stuck to ranged. I believe many of the Ranged Alacrity items out there don't stack with the Ranger capstone, so they're not all that much faster, if you dedicate that equipment slot.

[Mythal]

18 Fighter / 1 Bard / 1 Barbarian

or

18 Fighter / 1 Bard / 1 Ranger

Seem to be the popular choices within this particular idiom. If I do one I'm leaning towards the Ranger version for 1 more free Feat (Bow Strength), but also primarily to have Spot as a class skill.

They are equally competitive to the Ranger version, the primary benefit of the Ranger version is that their main damage bonuses (Ram's Might and Favored Enemies) are weapon agnostic. So you can range Harry, and get those bonuses, or run up and melee him, and continue to get those bonuses. The Fighter loses all his Kensai bonuses when he puts the bow away and switches to melee, so you're really really stuck to ranged. I believe many of the Ranged Alacrity items out there don't stack with the Ranger capstone, so they're not all that much faster, if you dedicate that equipment slot.

so you just agreed and pointed out why there are even more reasons why nobody should be doing a ranged focused character that isnt a pure 20 ranger

thanks for your input
everything you just said: kensai has no alternative dmg, and needs more gear - just to be on par with a pure 20 rgr archer with less gear........yup right, thats a great way to compare apples to oranges.

the way you compare viability is take 2 options, put the best possible gear on BOTH of them, and see who wins.
thats what comparison is actually defined as.
so ya, as we both said now, anything that is a bow user that isnt 20 ranger is just a gimp vs a 20 ranger.
yup yup

[gavagai]

everything you just said: kensai has no alternative dmg, and needs more gear - just to be on par with a pure 20 rgr archer with less gear........yup right, thats a great way to compare apples to oranges.

Of course the fighter has 20 feats to cover both ranged and melee damage. Haste boosts and power surge both apply for the Fighter; the Fighter has more hit points; and higher STR and tactics.

I wouldn't call them gimp with respect to DPS any more than a normal Stalwart Defender is a gimp with respect to DPS.

They are just different. I think the Fighter variant is for the player that wants to milk the most DPS out of the bow as is possible.

And a full fighter Haste Boost + Power Surge + Manyshot + Barb Rage/Favored Enemy + Kensai bonuses is IMO the highest burst damage possible on a bow, and perhaps in the game. Not that that means much to me, though.

[Chai]

The single best thing about Everquest was that you could go anywhere and attack anything. Make your own decisions, deal with the consequences.

I know, I fail for quoting your sig.

EQ was so camptastic on items and it failed to instance even one dungeon. Arguements about camping and /rage trains sucked. I loved that game and people still play it and I liked the fact that dying was real detrimental and cost you almost an entire level of xp.

Also read: 1 spawn of every world boss per week in NON instanced zones = fail for keeping players interested in higher level content.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Outside of going Fighter 18/Bard 1/(Ranger of Barbarian) 1, I'd take a level of Rogue for the last one (obviously at first level).

Tons of skill points, some sneak attack damage and Skill Boost 1 (for UMD).


In the end though, I chose the Ranger splash since I really needed the extra feat...and could still use more. =\

[Logic]

My opinion is if you are going ranged AA then just go 20 ranger. You get so much and do comperable dps to any other AA build that sacrifices a lot.

I know people like to make unique builds... but honestly a pure 20 ranger is the best overall AA spec in my opinion.

[AylinIsAwesome]

My opinion is if you are going ranged AA then just go 20 ranger. You get so much and do comperable dps to any other AA build that sacrifices a lot.

I know people like to make unique builds... but honestly a pure 20 ranger is the best overall AA spec in my opinion.

My AA build doesn't sacrifice a lot to do ranged DPS.

If anything, I sacrifice more for the tank mode she can do.

[Asymetric_War]

I know, I fail for quoting your sig.

EQ was so camptastic on items and it failed to instance even one dungeon. Arguements about camping and /rage trains sucked. I loved that game and people still play it and I liked the fact that dying was real detrimental and cost you almost an entire level of xp.

Also read: 1 spawn of every world boss per week in NON instanced zones = fail for keeping players interested in higher level content.

way to derail the thread! lol

I disliked lots of things about eq, including many of the things you mentioned but the freedom to walk into a city where I wasn't supposed to be and either invis or sneak or kill the guards when they attacked in order to get through was pretty **** cool and added a level of realism that I appreciated. I set that as my sig line back in 2006 but have mostly ignored the forums for the last 4 years and now for whatever reason it won't let me change my sig line so I seem to be stuck with it.

as for the build, I was thinking that if pure fighter wouldn't work 18 fighter / 2 fvs on the silver flame path would be cool for the extra little ranged attack bonus and for the access to scrolls and wands and a couple basic spells that would give.

also, i was thinking about it, and is it a 100% for-sure thing that fighters don't get the sp's from past life sorc? I seem to remember someone who reincarnated from sorc to monk a while back mentioning that they had sp's which were completely useless since they had no spells.

[Asymetric_War]

lol, aesop beat me to it but the first thing i thought of when i saw your enhancements was....wait a second, those imbues cost mana....and fighter isnt gonna get any. sucks ;(

just go ranger. 25% archer alacrity far outweighs 10%. plus you get all those cool spells - resists, rams might, FoM, runspeed, blah blah blah blah, blah...

i see no reason to be an archer if you arent a ranger. you still get full GTWF as a ranger archer anyway, so this build concept is basically just a gimped form of what a ranger would be.

well, the kensai dmg is nice ofc so i take that back, it wont be as fast hitting but it will hit harder.
maybe it works out to be more dps but i think the amount of more dps itll give compared to that ranger archer alacrity is so small that its not so noticeable. and you lose all the ranger abilities (evasion, better saves, and those spells).
not to mention - favored enemy damage of +12 with 5 picks of favored enemies is pretty **** near impossible to beat even with kensai and all those weapon spec feats.
so no. i repeat what i said before. only a ranger arcane archer is even worth building. 5 FE's is plenty that you'll always be hitting FE mobs when it counts.

actually, with 10% alacrity + 20% boost from fighter haste the kensai would be attacking faster. (30% vs 25%) He'd also have a much higher max strength for bow strength damage, a bigger hit dice, a larger crit range, and a larger crit multiplier. The +12 damage you mention to favored enemies *might* narrow that gap a bit for the pure ranger when fighting those specific mob types but in terms of pure dps the kensai should absolutely destroy a ranger build. do the math.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I actually did the math a while ago of a Pure 20 Ranger AA and a Arcane Kensei Archer, and the Ranger had a tiny bit of extra damage over the AKA when the Ranger was attacking a Favoured Enemy and the AKA was not. This doesn't include any sneak attack damage (from a possible Rogue splash the AKA can have) or any Favoured Enemies (from a possible Ranger splash), or Rage (from a possible Barbarian splash).

However, that was based off of the reported +25% ranged alacrity from the Ranger capstone, and it's been reported that the actual bonus is about half of that.

That said, the AKA is definitely in the lead.

Plus, UMD for the win.






OP, don't splash 2 FvS. You don't get any bow bonuses 'till level 3 (and then it's +1 to-hit to make up for the -1 BAB from FvS 1). Splash a level of Bard, which gets you full ranks in UMD and Focusing Chant for +1 attack rolls and +1 to skill checks.

Then for the final level, whatever you want. Barbarian, Rogue and Ranger are the three strongest choices I think.

[Logic]

I actually did the math a while ago of a Pure 20 Ranger AA and a Arcane Kensei Archer, and the Ranger had a tiny bit of extra damage over the AKA when the Ranger was attacking a Favoured Enemy and the AKA was not. This doesn't include any sneak attack damage (from a possible Rogue splash the AKA can have) or any Favoured Enemies (from a possible Ranger splash), or Rage (from a possible Barbarian splash).

However, that was based off of the reported +25% ranged alacrity from the Ranger capstone, and it's been reported that the actual bonus is about half of that.

That said, the AKA is definitely in the lead.

Plus, UMD for the win.

I tested the 20 ranger capstone with my AA. I timed 400 arrow shots. I measured the 10-12% that people are reporting, not the 25% that the capstone description says. The testing I did was without the ToD set and without haste or any sort of other alacrity.

If you run the DPS numbers please post them. I'm curious how 20 ranger compares to other AA specs.

[Diib]

Also leveling throughout the kensai is going to do more damage, even if the ranger finally gets close at ranger 20. A ranger is just going to spend a lot of its leveling life not shooting at favored enemies, where as weapon spec, greater weapon spec, and all the kensai damage and crit bonuses work against everything. Plus the fighter gets +1 to the crit range and can pick up aa sets that increase range speed.

[Logic]

Of course the fighter has 20 feats to cover both ranged and melee damage.

There's not an abundance of feats by any means if you add up all the ranged feats and also want to have melee and UMD.

Also keep in mind that as a 20 ranger you can pick up past life paladin and extend spell (thats ~14 minutes of +3 hit and +3 damage). Most other AA specs are feat starved and can't really do this without completely abandoning melee.

20 ranger also gets evasion, which you can't do with 18 fighter.

20 ranger can also melee OK without spending a single feat using 2x mineral II rapiers (assuming you are elf).

20 ranger can self buff and heal if soloing is your thing. Resists, FoM, rams, poison.

12+ fighter does have the advantage of seeker +4 which is nice for autocrit situations (earthgrab bow!)

Fighter also can wear maralith chain.

But overall I see too many advantages of 20 ranger. I'm not convinced on any other AA spec, but if somebody rolls out the damage numbrs maybe they can convince me :P

[Logic]

Also leveling throughout the kensai is going to do more damage, even if the ranger finally gets close at ranger 20. A ranger is just going to spend a lot of its leveling life not shooting at favored enemies, where as weapon spec, greater weapon spec, and all the kensai damage and crit bonuses work against everything. Plus the fighter gets +1 to the crit range and can pick up aa sets that increase range speed.

I believe the AA set stacks with AA capstone even though they are both competance bonuses. I have heard this several times by people who have claimed to test it. I have not tested it myself.