Quests imbalanced? And Difficulty of quests overview

[Wizard1406]

It seems that quests of the same level vary difficult *a lot*, even if they are both "of average difficulty" according to compendium. You never know if you can beat a quest, I guess that only comes with experience

For example:
I did tangleroot elite (last part lvl 9!) with a lvl 4-7 party *easily* with a lvl 4 rogue getting the traps with no problem
Then I tried (emphasis on "tried") House K quests , they are about lvl 7-8 on elite with a lvl 7-9 party and we got murderered, rogue lvl 8 couldn't find the traps, and traps doing 100+ damage, difficult mobs, fire elemental unbeatable; xp bad as well

From what I've noticed so far, (I'm only lvl 8) is that chain quests (they are all p2p but waterworks) are easier and more xp, than most single quests
And some quests are absolutely not worth it to do at lvl, especially not hard/elite...better run through later overlevelled , just for favor

Btw this is not a whine, I'm up for a challenge! But taking 1hour for a short quest, dying 6 times and having to replace several people and in the end still failing the quest, getting no xp and favor is not my idea of fun...
seems ok for a raid but not a lvl up quest


I have no clue how f2p players can bear lvl 6+ on just the marketplace and house quests


====================

Quest difficulty

KORTHOS & HARBOR: all quests doable at lvl... hardest quests irestone (especially elite) and where there is smoke there is fire (esp elite)
WW: not hard

MARKETPLACE: only few quests worth it, most doable at lvl , except swiped signet, gladewatch and freshen the air
CATACOMBS: easy
STK: easy on normal and hard; traps in part 3 are mean on elite

DELERAS: easy on normal, havent done hard and elite yet

TANGLEROOT: easy

HOUSE K: the small quests from the inn: need excellent rogue, lots of resists and better be higher lvl than the quest

someone else continue if they wish :-)

[hydra_ex]

Yeah, that's pretty much it. You catch on really quickly

[Wizard1406]

IMO they should label "lair of summoning" "ruined halls" "forgotten caverns" very challenging and bump up their lvl by 1 or 2, "taming the flames" extreme challenge and bump up by 2 or 3

also xp per quest should be awarded accoring to length AND difficulty

It's of course difficult to balance everything right with so many quests...

But they could take player feedback into account ;-) taming the flames was hard and bad xp even back when I played first (back in 2006?)

basically is it the best way as VIP to level only on chains quests and p2p packs because they are the best xp/hour and then rush through hard quests quickly at 20 for favor ?

[hydra_ex]

basically is it the best way as VIP to level only on chains quests and p2p packs because they are the best xp/hour and then rush through hard quests quickly at 20 for favor?

Like I said, a quick learner

[Wizard1406]

I tried to do all quests on hard/elite up with stop leveling and all (so I dont outlevel them and get less xp) but midway in marketplace I just gave up

I figured it was smart to do favor and xp at the same time, but terrible xp/hour and many deaths were ensuing, its probably more feasible with a good guild group, but in a random group just dont bother to do freshen the air etc ;-)

[MrCow]

basically is it the best way as VIP to level only on chains quests and p2p packs because they are the best xp/hour

Some of the free to play non-chain quests are very good competitors (or at times the best) for high EXP/hour including:

• The Depths of Despair
• The Depths of Darkness
• The Lair of Summoning
• Ruined Halls
• The Path to Madness
• The Xorian Cipher
• Stromvauld's Mine
• Dreams of Insanity
• And the Dead Shall Rise...
• A Relic of a Sovereign Past
• Invaders!
• Mired in Kobolds

[Wizard1406]

# The Lair of Summoning
# Ruined Halls
well I just tried to do these... almost 2 hours for nothing because we kept dying

#The Xorian Cipher
long and very difficult quest (unless maybe you have permanent death ward)

#Stromvauld's Mine
we always seem to miss one guy and then it takes ages backtracking to find him


I read some of your posts Mr.Cow you are excellent in quest solving :-)

So if you have perfect preparation, good perception good gear solo or good teamplay, and experience there are probably a lot more good xp quests but for me I am not an expert yet ;-)

I kinda like hack'n'slash quests most because I fail at orientation , puzzle solving, jumping and such hehe but sometimes it's fun for a change

[Xaearth]

I'd wager that the majority of trouble you're having with difficulty lies with your party.
All of the quests you mentioned are easy with a well-equipped, experienced party, but rather difficult with a poorly-equipped and/or inexperienced party.

Think of it this way:
If you're going into Taming the Flames with the majority of your party's melee characters still wielding +1 Flaming weapons from Korthos, you're gonna have some trouble even on normal.
If everyone has decent frost or icy burst weapons, someone is handing out 20 pt fire resist and protection from fire, and you've got one or two people with evasion and a decent hp pool, it's no trouble at all.

[Angelus_dead]

For example:
I did tangleroot elite (last part lvl 9!) with a lvl 4-7 party *easily* with a lvl 4 rogue getting the traps with no problem
Then I tried (emphasis on "tried") House K quests , they are about lvl 7-8 on elite with a lvl 7-9 party and we got murderered

Here's the thing:
DDO's game design has loose and leaky character power. Level is only a weak indicator of what a character can handle.

Saying that one party was level 4-7 and another was level 7-9 actually tells very little about the abilities those characters had. In particular, there can be a tremendous difference between a low-level newbie character and one from a player who has a lot of experience and a stash of good items. For example, I once saw a level 12 character who was superior in every way to some level 19 characters, simply because he had kept loot from reincarnating.

An additional factor is that as you get into the level 7+ range, there are fewer and fewer free quests, so the parties going to the quests which are free will be disproportionately newer and inexperienced players. The well-equipped guys have moved into Delera and Sorrowdusk by then.

[Wizard1406]

well it would be nice if the warnings "challenging dungeon" or "extreme challenge dungeon" comes up for all applicable dungeons

taming the flames is a level 6 quest, where would a level 6 get an icy burst weapon if he doesn't have a higher lvl to feed him items or money? new player will have some crappy +1/+2 weapon or the nicked weapons if VIP. Also how many people have both evasion and high hp by lvl 6?

see.. not really a "average difficulty" lvl 6 quest

same for freshen the air... lvl 4, needs "shield" clickies.. where from ?

xorian cypher...lvl 9, death ward.. where from ?


Apart from having a good built and using the right tactics, equipment is really really important in DDO it seems - does this hold true lvl 1-20 ? in wow for example, the gigantic difference only comes at the cap with raid loot

I saw it myself, with nicked greatsword and +2 fullplate at lvl 2, some clickies , I was unstoppable in Korthos and most of Harbor (had played sorcerer a bit before and gave some items to Paladin).

I became average about 2 levels later and by now, lvl 8, my equipment just sucks. I get hit on almost every blow and dont deal much damage.
I still havent seen a better weapon or armor from drops or quests and I guess quite a lot of players are even worse equipped, at least I can get the static rewards from p2p chains

[Eladiun]

taming the flames is a level 6 quest, where would a level 6 get an icy burst weapon if he doesn't have a higher lvl to feed him items or money? new player will have some crappy +1/+2 weapon or the nicked weapons if VIP. Also how many people have both evasion and high hp by lvl 6?

see.. not really a "average difficulty" lvl 6 quest

same for freshen the air... lvl 4, needs "shield" clickies.. where from ?

xorian cypher...lvl 9, death ward.. where from ?

A lot of your points are dead on but you underestimate tactics... Freshen the Air is difficult but if you have a balanced party and you pull the mobs to the door in the ambush room and snipe the guys on the ledges it isn't nearly as hard. If you run into the room and end up separated your toast. A good place to find equipment that is not outrageously priced are the brokers... I found a paralyzing of enfeebling rapier in one the other day for like 90k gold. Frost weapons are easy to find there as well. A lot of people just dump stuff there without thinking about what they have. Deathblock items are often available on the armor broker. You may sacrifice a few points of AC but it will be worth it when you need deathblock. You can also try to avoid the happy fun balls that's pretty much what we had to do in the early days. Again it's tactics which unless someone shows you, you often have to learn the hard way. Start running Tempest Spine... we farm the heck of of it at this level. Some folks run it 20-30 times... Even if the items suck...they sell for a good bit of gold and you can build a decent back roll. Gear really helps, my Ranger waltzes through Xorian mostly because of the gear I had stocked away for him. Deathward is a level for spell so your healer should pack that for Xorian it will save it's weight in rez's.

[knightgf]

I came across a time paradox in the Inspired Quarter series. During one of the quests, 3 monsters were summoned against me as my 'worst nightmares'. I never did Gianthold or Vault of Night, so therefore, 2 out of the 3 monsters summoned against me shouldnt exist, because I never encountered them even once! (Well, if he summoned the 'regular' inevitable, I bet it would just be 1/3. But still)

I also hear that another time paradox can occur in Part II of the Inspired Quarter if you've never done the demon queen raid and confronted the queen! Man, thats just at least two...at least they fixed The Shroud storyline, so that at least it says "Someone" killed a lich to alter the periods of the moon, not the player's name itself. Im fine with that.

[Zenako]

I think you're biggest lacks are a) game Knowledge and b) suitable gear.

In a simple hack and slash quest (Like Tangleroot), even the most basic of gear and tactics will succeed. There is really nothing all that hard or challenging about those quests. It is basically the next step up from the Kothos/Harbor experience.

Some of the quests you mention as being hard, can be hard for a party that is really only prepared to slaughter bugbears. Constucts, Undead, Elementals, etc all call out for other weapons or tactics to handle with the same ease. That is why if for example you happened to have even one well equipped veteran player with you, many of those same quests you mention as killers, can be a piece of cake.

Well game knowledge only can really come from playing and seeing for yourself some of the way things work. You can also pick up a lot of insight on the forums or when you party with good veteran players. No real shortcuts there.

As for gear, that is another issue. Some of that also goes back to game knowledge and knowing what types and kinds of gear to seek and hold onto, based on the type of mobs you expect to fight in the game.

Taming the Flames is notorious for being a pain, especially on elite, BUT, with the right preparation, it is not much harder than a run thru parts of Tangleroot. So for that one you need Fire Resistence for sure, 20 points at least, which most 7th level casters should be able to provide, or just pull out a Robe of Winter (wearable at level 4). I try to make sure low level characters grab one until they outgrow that benefit (around level 10ish or so)

I also tend to see a lot of players try to use the same BFA tactics in all quests. (BFA = Bold Frontal Assault). In a lot of the early quests this works just fine. But when you do this and alert a half dozen enemy casters at once, and start eating multiple magic Missiles, Acid Arrows, Scorching Rays, at the same time, it can quickly be curtains. When questing in a dungeon of casters and thieves, one needs to adjust tactics to suit.

As someone else mentioned, the quality of the players in the group can make a HUGE difference between success and failure. Twitch skills can make a character perform like one many levels higher than it really is. Game knowledge also boosts effectiveness by huge amounts.

The "toughness" of the dungeons rating is by its very nature a very crude tool, since the nature of the party attempting the quest cannot be known. For some mixes of characters it could actually be impossible for those characters to complete (say a quest with an INT rune like VON3) and the entire group has no one or way to get to the required INT level. While for another group, every character in the group could hit that level and that feature is all but irrelevant.

As to the traps issue, that speaks a lot more to the skill and knowledge of the player involved. A well speced and geared out 4th level rogue could well be a superior trap disarmer than an 8th level with sad gear and little clue. Very very easily. Since most traps at the lowest levels are but mere annoyances, that leads many to conclude they can ignore them. However on higher level quests, on the elite setting of quests, traps turn quite damaging and often deadly. But that is the point of traps is it not? Otherwise why bother.

[Eladiun]

Another thing...don't forget House P buffs. Once you have Rank 1 in House P favor you can have 30 minute buffs cast on you in House P. These can make a huge difference...too many players neglect this valuable resource.