Wizard with Rogue Splash (Comments Please)

[Nihlia]

This is my very first attempt at building a character, so I did some studying and came up with this as an idea. My thought here is a character that is solo/solo with hireling capable but also able to take care of traps in non-epic groups if needed. Here are my main questions for you experienced builders/players out there:

1) How capable will this build be at finding/disabling traps? I know I didn't put spot in it, because when I solo my nose will be in a guide (and I really don't care how slow I go alone), and when I group, I'm assuming others will know where traps are.

2) Is a high level of UMD needed on a WF character that pretty much plans to heal themselves? Should I swap out something to get healers friend for the times when I do group?

3) Any thoughts on the wizardly skills? The necro piece actually comes from a past history of RP I did in EQ when I played a necro, and I have some fantastic stories that can come back with some creativity. I realize pale master isn't everything it can be now, but I think I'm willing to give it a shot and play with the solo stealthing a bit if it doesn't hurt my viability too much.

4) Any other comments? I'm very new to the game, so feedback is appreciated. This isn't intended to be a real powerful raiding/end game maximized character, but more one where I can have fun and disable (hopefully) the majority of traps that are not high end.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Xorana  Deathtouch
Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Female
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 256
Spell Points: 1468 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 18
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         18                    19
Intelligence         18                    28
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                     6
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         6                    27
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device        8                    33
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  4                     4
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  4                     4
Listen                3                     3
Move Silently         4                     4
Open Lock             4                    22
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                4                     9
Search                8                    33
Spot                  3                     6
Swim                  0                     0
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      2                    18

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Wizard Concentration I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery I


Level 5 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 7 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III


Level 13 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 14 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich


Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening I


Level 19 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening II


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Wizard Concentration II
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master III

[Muldamai]

1) You will be able to disable most traps in the game, see rogue complaints on Epic traps even when maxed out as a level 20 rogue for comparison. You will be fine.
2) Arcane spells include repair spells that heal War Forged. Thus, a WF wizard is like a human cleric for self healing (but that is the only comparison I would make). You can go the UMD route, but it is not a requirement on a WF wizard/rogue.
3) Stay away from Pale Master at the moment. Just did my own testing, and it isn't worth a whole heck of a lot as it stands. The class you are taking is elite enough, and what you learn from playing should get you through to raiding and levelling.

4) Lets see: Skip the +1 int tome at level 3, just do the +2 tome at level 7, they wont stack, and +1 int wont do much for 4 levels.

Either go WF CON 2 or not at all, the +1 again doesn't do much for you. Read the wizard forum in depth before your final decision of what to do.

I find reading Ghoste's post about the Stealth wizard very useful, and the Wizard hand book very valuable. Go here and the multiclass threads and check other 2 rogue/18 wizard builds, there are a lot of 'em.

Good luck on your path here, you are using all the tools to make a successful toon.

There are other things to nitpick, but why spoil the whole thought process you are putting into this? Learn by doing, or not doing.

[Nihlia]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful comments. I don't consider it nitpicking at all, I'm just grateful someone took the time to read, think, and respond. I'm so new to the game I almost just dismissed multiclassing out of hand, but then I decided that a wizard with some rogue skills would be really fun for me. So, I took 5 builds from the forums, put them on a spreadsheet by level and compared, then changed them a bit for my own flavor. That being said, I still was leery, since I'm so new and missed the obvious ... like you want constitution to be an even number. So, thanks again. I revised her a bit based on your comments. I decided to keep the +1 tome at level 3, just for skills, even if they don't stack... maybe a waste, but I wanted all the skill points I could squeeze into her. I actually started her out, and she's level 2 now. I was hesitant to go to level 3 without feedback

Here's what she looks like now:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Xorana  Deathtouch
Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Female
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 266
Spell Points: 1468 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 18
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         18                    20
Intelligence         18                    28
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                     6
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         6                    28
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device        8                    33
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  4                     4
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  4                     4
Listen                3                     3
Move Silently         4                     4
Open Lock             4                    22
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                4                     9
Search                8                    33
Spot                  3                     6
Swim                  0                     0
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      2                    18

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Wizard Concentration I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery I


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Concentration II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery II


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening I


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening II


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II

[Muldamai]

Ok, a few more things then

1) Wand Heighten doesn't tend to work out too well. Wands max out in level around 10 (there are a few 11 and 12 also), so the difference in level from about 15 up works against you. Best to keep wands with no saving throws and for buffing (ie: healing/repair, stoneskin, scorching ray, ice storm).

2) If there going to be something specific you are using spell focus necromancy for? If not, drop those and take different feats for now, especially if this is your 1st toon. If you want spell focus, I bet you will find spell focus enchant infinitely more useful.

3) The 1st 3 feats work fine, then some changes. Level 6 I would take Maximize spell, it is worth it. If you have to choose between Maximize or Empower, take Maximize.

4) Level 9, choose Heighten, that's about where I started to need it.

5) Shoot, lost my train of thought, had another Feat thing to add, leaving this here in case I remember.

6) When posting from DDO Character Creator, do all your Enhancements at level 20, that will put them together and make it easier to read to see what you are (and aren't) taking.

Good luck now! That should be suffcient. You will learn a lot when you play.

[oweieie]

Wizard isn't a class that splashes something else well. It's really not worth giving up capstone and weakening your spell power just to be able to do traps. This is doubly true since it's a class with knock and true seeing so you can find secret doors and open almost any door or chest already anyway.

[Impatiens]

While UMD may not be necessary to have for healing yourself it is still really nice to have. Since you have rogue levels and high int for a lot of skill points it may be possible to max UMD. If it is possible I would recommend doing so. Being able to use rez scrolls so the clerics can focus on healing the party members that are still alive can save a raid when things go bad.

[Phidius]

Wizard isn't a class that splashes something else well. It's really not worth giving up capstone and weakening your spell power just to be able to do traps. This is doubly true since it's a class with knock and true seeing so you can find secret doors and open almost any door or chest already anyway.

It's totally worth -1 to your Spell DCs to get evasion.

Op:

You should try to fit in Insightful Reflexes earlier, say at level 3. There are a lot of spells that you'd rather take 1/2 damage from.

I like to have Maximize by level 7 wizard, and take Empower later. If you only take one, though, take Maximize.

I'd recommend raising Spot instead of Open Lock. With the right equipment, you can get most locks with only 4 ranks - and like Oweieie said you can take the spell Knock as well. Spot is used to detect hidden enemies as well as detecting traps, and some traps are randomly placed.

[xoowak]

Necromancy spells do not get good until you get Finger of Death, which will be at 15 for this build. The Spell focus:necromancy feats are pretty much wasted up until then. You will probably feel the need for those spell penetration feats a little earlier.

I would go with something like:
1: Toughness
2W: MT
3: Extend
6W: Maximize
6: Insightful Reflexes
9: Quicken
12W: Heighten
12: Spell Pen
15: G. Spell Pen
17W: SF: Nec
18: GSF: Nec

Enhancement-wise, consider dropping wand-heightening/some of the skill enhancements/racial toughness 4 to pick up the last spell pen enhancement and some metamagic cost reduction enhancements

[Dutch01]

Wizard isn't a class that splashes something else well. It's really not worth giving up capstone and weakening your spell power just to be able to do traps. This is doubly true since it's a class with knock and true seeing so you can find secret doors and open almost any door or chest already anyway.

Wow try again, cause you are way wrong. Trap disabling higher then most full rogues can achieve, evasion, and cross class skill points for days well out weighs -1 to DC's and loss of 2 spell slots.


Edit: after seeing your rebuttal post with a shroud sp item and a few other things and you will have 0 issue with sp's. Now if at that point you are I would think that YOU are having issues with your spell point usage. The 18/2 wiz/rog is an extremely powerful and useful build. I would suggest knowing of what you speak before you do.