FAVOR 3000 32 point Drow

[Murderface]

its about time someone does something about drow
for everything besides caster they stink
i mean of course a good player might make them shine but same player same class different race will probably be better off being just that more effective

Drows in PnP have a Bonus in Cha and Int, also the same racial bonus for dex and penalty in con. They also have other goodies best of which is SR at level 1 they receive 11 +1 for every level they receive there after. Not to mention SR is very different in pnp because it blocks almost every or every spell type damage spells evadable or direct. Which should show that they do have a substantial weakness in ddo, coupled with the fact that you cannot make a 32 point drow which makes elves superior to drow on basicly every other class besides arcane spell caster.

Id just like to see something done with them, without making it better via enhancements. a 32 point drow makes sense. As well it makes sense to me since you they were unlocked with favor, and 32 point was unlocked with favor. That 32 point drows should be indeed put up to 32 and have a fair chance to shine as a different class besides trap monkey, or arcane

Right now there is no reason to play one other then for RP purposes. you get funny looks if you play a full bab drow and that needs to change.

[Uska]

NO drow are fine you want a 30 pt drow just TR you want a 32pt drow do it twice.

[Arkat]

Mickey Abbott

[Visty]

32pt dros exist, just TR twice
making normal 32pts available to drow would just make the same thing as 3 years ago as drow got introduced

other then that drows are also good for twf dps palas, so not only for casters ( nad not even for casters they are the best al lthe time)

[Calebro]

Mickey Abbott

You gave me gonorrhea and you didn't even tell me!

[Murderface]

32pt dros exist, just TR twice
making normal 32pts available to drow would just make the same thing as 3 years ago as drow got introduced

other then that drows are also good for twf dps palas, so not only for casters ( nad not even for casters they are the best al lthe time)

a double tr 1.9 + 3.2 + 4.4 = 9.5 million xp for a 32 point drow? thats a little insane dont you think, and it still does not change the fact that a 36 point elf would be superior in most cases.

[Impaqt]

They also make Excellent Rogues.

SS and Rapiers are Very good weapons. Especially if your going to go dex/Weapon Finesse.

I think they should get their Natrual SR as per PnP. SPending Action points on a Natrual ability is asinine. Especially when the best SR you can get is substantially worse than a low level wearable.

[AZgreentea]

You just cant give this topic up, can you Murderface?

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

A Drow is a 32 point build, its just not one you can control.

[Visty]

a double tr 1.9 + 3.2 + 4.4 = 9.5 million xp for a 32 point drow? thats a little insane dont you think, and it still does not change the fact that a 36 point elf would be superior in most cases.

would you be more for it if the max lvl a drow could get would be 18? cause then you can have your 32pt from start, thats called level adjustment

[gavagai]

The main problems for Drow are:

-- Drow get +2 in three stats, but only get stat enhancements for one (Dex). So their racial "advantage," unlike other race's, diminishes over time. (i.e. Human Adaptability). Further, no class has one of INT/DEX/CHA as a primary stat and as a secondary stat, unless it is a highly flavorful rogue or arcane build, so a +2 in those 3 stats is never equite as good as, say a +4 in 1 stat. The -2 stat (CON) is commonly the secondary stat, so it doubly stinks.

-- Their enhancements pretty much stink, including...

-- Their SR is irrelevant beyond level 10.


Easy fixes for Drow:

-- Create exclusive enhancement lines for either DEX, CHA, or INT. This way, their stat advantage would scale along with the benefits other races receive, making them useful for more builds.

-- Improve their enhancements.* Improve the Elven Arcane Fluidity to be more economical (12AP for -10% ASF???!!!). As masters of elemental channeling (*poke* Sultanar *poke*), give them a fire resist line or bonus fire damage line. Or give them a poison melee attack boost. Something.

-- Fix the SR to scale with level. For instance, start SR at Level +4, and have each tier of the enhancement line give +3.

* Please Devs, don't fall into the trap of thinking that the Scorpion Wraith PrE is going to relieve the need to balance Drow enhancements. Scorp Wraith will itself be balanced across other classes, and will probably need to include high costs in order to make it powerful enough to be effective. Requiring all Drows to take the PrE line to get basic improvements to their enhancements will make most Drow characters worse, not better, since they'll be stretched more thinly with their feats and enhancements.

[Murderface]

Well its just sad to me. then give me the xp penalty without the tr then. I so very much liked my Warlock drow in nwn2 alot of fun to put 10 points in dex and cha and come out with stats, 14 str, 12 con, 18 dex, 10 int, 8 wis 18 cha
make it 3500 favor give me the xp penalty similar to a second tr dont make me grind out 2 other freakin characters.

[Calebro]

Drow also make excellent Paladins. So let's see....
They make good Paladins, Rogues, Sorcerers, Wizards, Bards, and many flavor builds benefit from their racial bonuses. That's almost 50% of the classes. Doesn't sound too bad to me....

The fact of the matter is that Drow are a poor man's 32 point build. Everyone gets excited when they unlock Drow and rush off to roll one. Giving them more build points at start will make them surpass all other races in terms of general power, which will lead to everyone wanting to play them (with the exception of fanatics, ie WF etc).

You think the Dragontouched Armor Squad sucks? Wait and see what happens when it's the Drow Dragontouched Armor Squad if they decide to listen to this request.

Clone armies FTW!

[gavagai]

The fact of the matter is that Drow are a poor man's 32 point build.

But the presence of 32 point, 34, and even 36 point builds has long since taken the polish off Drow. At one point, you could do things with Drow that couldn't be done with another race (when they ran in droves). At present, anything a Drow can do decently another race can do better, with just a bit of investment.

The Drow's primary advantage was in their stats. But the costs of being Drow (28 point buy with a low CON, poor enhancements, no dragonmarks, &c.) no longer matches the benefits (+1 INT over a human, +2 over a WF). It wouldn't be hard to improve Drow to balance against other races, without making them over the top. Obviously 32 point buy is much, but that's not the only thing on the table.

A +2 CHA or INT enhancement line would do no more to inspire 90% of WF arcane casters to go Drow than the Lich Form inspires them to go Pale Master. But it would make the Drow not just "adequate", but affirmatively "better" than other races at something. Same could be said for a Fire magic spell damage boost.

[Visty]

But the presence of 32 point, 34, and even 36 point builds has long since taken the polish off Drow. At one point, you could do things with Drow that couldn't be done with another race (when they ran in droves). At present, anything a Drow can do decently another race can do better, with just a bit of investment.

The Drow's primary advantage was in their stats. But the costs of being Drow (28 point buy with a low CON, poor enhancements, no dragonmarks, &c.) no longer matches the benefits (+1 INT over a human, +2 over a WF). It wouldn't be hard to improve Drow to balance against other races, without making them over the top. Obviously 32 point buy is much, but that's not the only thing on the table.

A +2 CHA or INT enhancement line would do no more to inspire 90% of WF arcane casters to go Drow than the Lich Form inspires them to go Pale Master. But it would make the Drow not just "adequate", but affirmatively "better" than other races at something. Same could be said for a Fire magic spell damage boost.

you can still do things with drows which you cant do with other races

btu you cant to everything better with drows

thats how it should be and thus they shouldnt get 32pts

[Calebro]

Agreed, but more build points is, in my eyes, the wrong direction to take this. There are many other way it can be handled, and all of them would be better than more build points.

[gavagai]

btu you cant to everything better with drows

Name one build you can do better with Drow than another race? Excluding the 20Dex/18INT rogue repeeater xbow mechanic build.

I like Drow for roleplay purposes, but at present I can't think of a single class or character a Drow is "better" at.

Perhaps the only argument is a full INT/CHA caster -- but I find that purely anecdotal. A Human is only -1 int behind, has more UMD through versatility, more healable, and standing with over 50 more HPs. Most excellent Drow casters are excellent players, and the race isn't adding much.

But agreed insofar that I'm not for 32 point Drow.

[Visty]

Name one build you can do better with Drow than another race? Excluding the 20Dex/18INT rogue repeeater xbow mechanic build.

twf dps paladin

[gavagai]

twf dps paladin

While Drow is cheaper to get tomes for, a 32 point Human TWF generally achieves better DPS. Equal STR (with Adaptability), Kopesh, and Versatility clickies for damage boosts.

And I don't think I've ever seen a TR Drow Paladin; once you have 34 build points the benefit of Drow is literally evaporated, since Paladins have fixed DEX and CHA stat targets.

[Calebro]

Name one build you can do better with Drow than another race? Excluding the 20Dex/18INT rogue repeeater xbow mechanic build.

Str based TWF Paladin.
Best in the business.
+2 Dex allows for easily attainable 17 Dex needed for I/GTWF.
+2 Cha allows for easily attainable 18/20 Cha for DM3/4.
The rest you use to pump Str, Con & Wis as you prefer.
No other race can get the starting Pally stats that a Drow can get, and have racial enhancements on rapiers AND short swords for TWF to boot.

[Visty]

While Drow is cheaper to get tomes for, a 32 point Human TWF generally achieves better DPS. Equal STR (with Adaptability), Kopesh, and Versatility clickies for damage boosts.

And I don't think I've ever seen a TR Drow Paladin; once you have 34 build points the benefit of Drow is literally evaporated, since Paladins have fixed DEX and CHA stat targets.

have fun building the following stats with a human. you dont even have to reach the 10 int


Str: 15
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 17

oh you cant?