FAVOR 3000 32 point Drow

[gavagai]

Dang. I thought DDO WAS a role playing game rather than an exercise in min/maxing.

I'd better re-roll. So I can re-role.

DDO doesn't have to balance anything, of course. I wouldn't be running with a melee Elf Paladin/Sorc if I needed Turbine to min/max my builds for me. But there is a difference between fun and balance. You can have fun rolling a Drow, but its a pretty obvious fact that the primary role for Drow is currently for easy 32-point builds.

Almost every race has at least one niche laid out by Turbine, areas where they shine. An Elf is crucial for a scimitar FvS or a Kensai Arcane Archer; a Warforged is crucial for many Arcane melees and Greatsword FvSes; a Dwarf uniquely apt for an AC/tactics tank; a halfling a sneak attack virtuoso or Dragonmark saint. The race left out is Drow. Drow's major selling point is their cheap stat buys in an inferior stat arrangement at 400 Favor. That's not a "fun" issue or a "min/max" issue, but simply a design issue.

I understand people who say "Drow are supposed to be meh; its the Favor system." but I don't get people who say "Drow are balanced as is."

Whats the problem?

If you don't want to use a race with the capability of doing 20 dex, cha, or int, then don't use a drow.

Pure finesse assassin rogue needs dex for skills and to-hit, int for assassinate DC and skill points, cha for UMD. still plenty of room for 14 con, which is all most rogue builds need.

18 wiz/2 rog, dex for rogue stuff; can max int for spell points, rogue skills, and DC; cha for UMD.

Sorc - 20 cha for max DC on spells and max SP. Max cha and some int means UMD can be very high, enough so that no-fail heal scrolls are simple to achieve, making a more effective caster than a WF with self heal ability.

No need to make drow any different than they are.. already equivalent of 32 pt build, racial skills that work with compatible classes, and easy to get for new players.

The value of a race is not summed up by how many points it gives. Warforged are a great example -- they are crucial races for many builds, including self-healing arcanes and adding melee oomph to many THF builds (bards, FvS, &c.). From Korthos to Epic.

Conversely, no build (besides the questionable 20Dex/18Int mechanic rogue) needs a high DEX, CHA, and INT, and SR 11, and rapier/short sword enhancements. +2 +2 +2 here do not equal +6 in Balance-land.

Other races provide what Drow provide better, in some cases at higher resource cost.
-- By endgame, humans generally have equal spell DC's, higher UMD (human versatility), +50-70 HPs, and/or better DPS from Kopesh.
-- Elves have better weapon selection (bows/AA, falchions, scimitars, and rapiers) and true 32 point buy, and Dragonmarks.
-- Halfling assassins achieve higher sneak attack damage, AC advantages, etc.

Since most classes want a high CON, the "bonus" INT is a wash. A halfling with 14 CON and 16 INT = the same amount of points as a Drow with 14 CON and 16 INT.

Since Drow lack enhancement options to boost CHA and INT, the Drow's advantage in those stats is minimal -- only +1 ahead of the human. The other points are mostly wasted. Again, three +2's are not the same as one +4, and 4 extra build points.

Balance isn't the end-all be-all of DDO, and I'm fine if Drow stay meh. Just like I'll be fine if clerics stay meh. But they are meh, and saying that they are fine doesn't make them less meh.

[Aashrym]

Adding more stat points doesn't seem to be the way to go. I like the enhancement over-haul instead. Racial enhancements to CHA and INT bonus sound like a much better idea.

[Murderface]

DDO doesn't have to balance anything, of course. I wouldn't be running with a melee Elf Paladin/Sorc if I needed Turbine to min/max my builds for me. But there is a difference between fun and balance. You can have fun rolling a Drow, but its a pretty obvious fact that the primary role for Drow is currently for easy 32-point builds.

Almost every race has at least one niche laid out by Turbine, areas where they shine. An Elf is crucial for a scimitar FvS or a Kensai Arcane Archer; a Warforged is crucial for many Arcane melees and Greatsword FvSes; a Dwarf uniquely apt for an AC/tactics tank; a halfling a sneak attack virtuoso or Dragonmark saint. The race left out is Drow. Drow's major selling point is their cheap stat buys in an inferior stat arrangement at 400 Favor. That's not a "fun" issue or a "min/max" issue, but simply a design issue.

I understand people who say "Drow are supposed to be meh; its the Favor system." but I don't get people who say "Drow are balanced as is."



The value of a race is not summed up by how many points it gives. Warforged are a great example -- they are crucial races for many builds, including self-healing arcanes and adding melee oomph to many THF builds (bards, FvS, &c.). From Korthos to Epic.

Conversely, no build (besides the questionable 20Dex/18Int mechanic rogue) needs a high DEX, CHA, and INT, and SR 11, and rapier/short sword enhancements. +2 +2 +2 here do not equal +6 in Balance-land.

Other races provide what Drow provide better, in some cases at higher resource cost.
-- By endgame, humans generally have equal spell DC's, higher UMD (human versatility), +50-70 HPs, and/or better DPS from Kopesh.
-- Elves have better weapon selection (bows/AA, falchions, scimitars, and rapiers) and true 32 point buy, and Dragonmarks.
-- Halfling assassins achieve higher sneak attack damage, AC advantages, etc.

Since most classes want a high CON, the "bonus" INT is a wash. A halfling with 14 CON and 16 INT = the same amount of points as a Drow with 14 CON and 16 INT.

Since Drow lack enhancement options to boost CHA and INT, the Drow's advantage in those stats is minimal -- only +1 ahead of the human. The other points are mostly wasted. Again, three +2's are not the same as one +4, and 4 extra build points.

Balance isn't the end-all be-all of DDO, and I'm fine if Drow stay meh. Just like I'll be fine if clerics stay meh. But they are meh, and saying that they are fine doesn't make them less meh.

ok im going to give and example of drows best melee paladin
i made a very high dps but to dig out of that con hole it just isnt worth it. sorry but your better of going for dm 3 with a human w/16 cha and just hope for a +4 cha tome then ever going drow. cleric with devine might 4 drows can do it but at what cost 10 buy in for str 10 possible 6 buy in for cha then what hmm u got 8-12 points so then what lol 6 points in con you still very light on starting con and maybe 4 points in wisdom hey its a drow build "throw hands in air"
dont even joke around about a fs drow what possible good could a melee drow be like 0 longsword and rapier damage enhancments and greater faith stuff for ss uhm meh.
can you even count rogue as a viable melee choice for drow?
answer no way
everything is better then drow period

even the best kotc with rapier is not gonna be as good as kopesh human human still better then kopesh drow, etc

right now im making kotc 36 point wf w/twf kopesh dm 4 maxed cha and i mean the double tr is tough at 15 im looking at 2.1 mil more xp to go but this wf will hella outperform a 32 point double tr drow

so really drow is ugly as anything besides a drow sorc and as dude just said human is just as good now

every race is practicly better in any application even there best class sorc or wiz is only 1/2 dc away from a human

so for even there best melee dm 4 pally to split it up i would say
drow is normal difficulty, dwarf is hard difficulty, human would be elite and of course as always wf is epic

go ahead and check out my tr bandabras khyber im slowly getting up there but by the time im done he will out perform the cha blessed drow with no problems what so ever

[Wickednisse]

I was so excited when I unlocked the drow race, sadly I should have done my research before getting excited because I wish I could get a refund for the points I wasted unlocking them. I have a drow rogue that I absolutely LOVE to play but her viability in higher level stuff is slim simply because other races can do it better and will get the preferred slot and are more in number. I am unlocking 32 point builds soon, it pains me to start over but atleast the 32 point build will be WORTH it and not a waste. WTB a refund of the points spent.

[Murderface]

I was so excited when I unlocked the drow race, sadly I should have done my research before getting excited because I wish I could get a refund for the points I wasted unlocking them. I have a drow rogue that I absolutely LOVE to play but her viability in higher level stuff is slim simply because other races can do it better and will get the preferred slot and are more in number. I am unlocking 32 point builds soon, it pains me to start over but atleast the 32 point build will be WORTH it and not a waste. WTB a refund of the points spent.

make this BurstAngel build no need for unlocking squat. which is without a doubt a better build then drow with a greater reincarnate option

[Tiewon]

Sheesh, if I see one more "Make Drow 32pts" posting I'm going to start blasting "Make WF 32pts" because yeah.. they have 2 neg modifiers when others have only one for one.. And Drow have 1 Neg and 3 pos.

Warforged are 32 points.

[stille_nacht]

so... seeing as i dont have 32 pt build, and wont any time soon, is it ok to make a Drow Ftr/Ranger instead of a 28pt elven one?

No build needs +INT +CHA and + DEX, but and AC ranger build would like the +DEX and CHA

10+2 (2 points spent) for int is much better than 8+4(6 poitns spend)

youve already saved 4 points.....(less if you want to shell out for +2/3 tomes :/)

[Alexkawasaki7]

a double tr 1.9 + 3.2 + 4.4 = 9.5 million xp for a 32 point drow? thats a little insane dont you think, and it still does not change the fact that a 36 point elf would be superior in most cases.

Probably as easy as 3k favor isn't it?

[Alexkawasaki7]

To me, it seems drow were designed to be casters. With many of the epic and Amarath quests, even with your main stat maxed out, many times spells don't stick. I say give drow enhancements, much like the spell penetration enhancements that boost your spell dc's.

2 ap's - +1 dc
4 more ap's - +1 more dc
6 more ap's - + 1 more dc

12 ap's for a +3 bonus to all spell dc's seems worth it to me, and it would make drow the best casters out there. (the way it should be imo)

Just an idea. Seems like a simple fix to help out the race to me, and it isn't any more over powered than half orcs.... =]