Flesh Stalwart Defender

[RoelHeeswijk]

I figured, if your intimitank isn't warforged, you'd better get those saves up. So I started with 2 monk levels to see what would happen.

I think the choice is either human or dwarf.
-Dwarf get save bonusses
-Human get: STR&DEX adaptability instead of CON, healing receptability, and intimidate-mark of the sentinel (as the free feat)

In stats, the main* difference will be:

+5 fortitude
+3 refelx
+4 will
50 HP
(and 2 DR more when blocking)**

or:

2 STR***
4 intimidate
20% healing receptability

(* more or less. dwarf get less skill points but +4 on balance and some random bonusses)
(** you get the AP for shield defense II, the spell defense III, and another racial toughness III by not taking Improved Recovery II and saving some with dwarven armor mastery I instead of fighter armor mastery III)
(***you could theoretically sacrifice 40HP and a 1 fort save to get those STR back on the dwarf)

The dwarf build as I had it in mind looks something like this:

(18 Fighter \ 2 Monk) Lawful Neutral Dwarf
Hit Points: 502
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 22+3 vs. spells = 25
Reflex: 17+3 vs. spells = 20
Will: 15+5 vs. spells = 20

(32 Point)
Strength             14+3   +2+3+6         28
Dexterity            16+2   +2+6           26
Constitution         16     +2+2+6         26
Intelligence         12     +2             14
Wisdom                8     +2             10
Charisma             12     +2+6           20

Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded

Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two-Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting

Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I

Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
Enhancement: Dwarven Shield Mastery II

Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization II

Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II

Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Way of the Tenacious Badger I

+2 tomes assumed.
+6 items needed for DEX, CON, STR and CHA.

max dex 8 with mithril stuff
for 26 DEX you need, say, +1 from exceptional and +1 more from a +3 tome.

Intimidate: 44 including a +6 CHA but no other items.

Now, the question of course is, how do you feel human and dwarfs compare? And is there any sense in using either instead of a warforged?
(Also, would you build either completely different?)

[aurum1]

If you want to boost saves on an intimitank I don't see the point in splashing monk. Splash 2 pally levels. That is actually what I am leaning towards on my TR.

[Baahb3]

If you are still planing on using armor and shield with this guy then I too don't get the monk splash. Is it just for the +3 to all saves? You can get the same with FvS and get access to some healing with it too.

Or an even better option is what aurum stated with the pally splash since you get to add your Cha bonus to all saves with 2 levels of pally.

Regardless, you can get pretty good saves going straight fighter anyway. With the right gear and a few buffs you can still get all your saves close to or over 30 which is just fine IMO.

[RoelHeeswijk]

Well, my main argument was that 2 levels of monk grants 2 feats for free (as well as +1 intimidate, and evasion when you take of your armor to walk through a trap or something, and some minor amount of skill points).
(Certainly better than FvS)

dropping 2x tougness will start to make me feel squishy (and going pali while dropping Force of Personality actually nets you 3 less will save compared to this build)

doesn't that make any sense?

[Quikster]

I have a human intimitank that can intimidate any raid boss in the game on any difficulty. Pure fighter, one toughness, and can hate tank most bosses to boot. Saves are decent though my will save isnt the best. Mid-high 20's when buffed i believe. I have a guildie with a dwarf that is pretty much the same.

Dont forget SD stance gives you an increase to your saves as well.

[aurum1]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

test 
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(18 Fighter \ 2 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 392
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 12
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    24
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    13.5
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            5                    39.5
Jump                  4                    19
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     3
Search                1                     4
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  2                    12
Tumble                n/a                   5
Use Magic Device      3                    13.5

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Defense


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

Well here is a quick build I tossed together, not all feats and enhancements are planned out in a logical path or exactly what I would take.
Saves are:
Fort 22 +3 from 6con item +3 from 6cha item +5 resistance = 33
Reflex 12 +3 from 6dex item +3 from 6cha item +5 resistance = 23
Will 12 +3 from 6cha item +3 from 6cha item again +5 resistance = 23

Saves are high, BAB is full, no evasion. It is the only splash I would consider losing 10% melee alacrity for on an intimitank, and I am still torn on that decision for my TR.

[Quikster]

The saves on my pure fighter are fairly close to that. I wouldnt splash for a few points in saves. Intimitanking is really only needed in a few places, outside of those you will want as much dps as you can muster imo.

[Gyries]

The fighter capstone is pretty awesome, losing that 10% for a bit more in saves would not have been a good decision for me. I had considered it a while back too and considered how much time I spend DPSing and it pays off to stay pure.

One of the other benefits is that with a few feat swaps or a lesser reincarnate you can swap into Kensei should Stalwart get stale for you.

Oh yeah, and saves are just fine as well.

[WeaselKing]

Nope, my stalwart defender is a warforged, a 12 ftr/6 pal/2 mnk Stalwart II, Knight of the Chalice I.

[Quikster]

Nope, my stalwart defender is a warforged, a 12 ftr/6 pal/2 mnk Stalwart II, Knight of the Chalice I.

Yeah going 12/6/2 is a totally different story imo. You are so far from the capstone its less of a decision. You also gain tier I pre from another class. Going wf'd with monk allows you to keep a decent ac and get evasion as well.

[aurum1]

Nope, my stalwart defender is a warforged, a 12 ftr/6 pal/2 mnk Stalwart II, Knight of the Chalice I.

That isn't a splash build. That is a real multiclass. If someone wants better saves on an 18 fighter intimitank I would go with pally over monk is all I am saying. Not sure it is worth the dps loss, but if you want the saves that is the way to go.

A 2 level pally splash on an intimitank is at least a +5 to all saves from the CHA modifier effect. Monk can't beat that.

[WeaselKing]

Yeah going 12/6/2 is a totally different story imo. You are so far from the capstone its less of a decision. You also gain tier I pre from another class. Going wf'd with monk allows you to keep a decent ac and get evasion as well.

That isn't a splash build. That is a real multiclass. If someone wants better saves on an 18 fighter intimitank I would go with pally over monk is all I am saying. Not sure it is worth the dps loss, but if you want the saves that is the way to go.

A 2 level pally splash on an intimitank is at least a +5 to all saves from the CHA modifier effect. Monk can't beat that.

I guess you guys didn't notice that most of my toons are named Flesh____. XD

[Chai]

I would go pally as well if splashing at all.

Cha would be even more synergeous at that point. getting a 3 tome and a 3 exceptional cha would add a 3 mod to reflex and fort, and a 6 mod to will using FOP. Not to mention bumping intim, umd, and any other cha skill.

I like leaving it pure fighter and hate-tanking better, and the 10% haste from the capstone fits right into that. If you need to tank while others are DPSing, and they pull aggro, the intim is now a management tool, and not the entire reason you can hold aggro. If you need to tank a mob while others are attacking something else, you can dps it while you wait and take a chunk of hp off.

[RoelHeeswijk]

[code]Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
Well here is a quick build I tossed together, not all feats and enhancements are planned out in a logical path or exactly what I would take.
Saves are:
Fort 22 +3 from 6con item +3 from 6cha item +5 resistance = 33
Reflex 12 +3 from 6dex item +3 from 6cha item +5 resistance = 23
Will 12 +3 from 6cha item +3 from 6cha item again +5 resistance = 23

Saves are high, BAB is full, no evasion. It is the only splash I would consider losing 10% melee alacrity for on an intimitank, and I am still torn on that decision for my TR.

Dwarf with paladin seems both a bit save overkill and bad syngery with 2 CHA less.
I think it's more dwarf&monk or human&paladin for me (and capstone fighter, but that's harder to compare)
Those are equal save-wise (I think human+pali will end up on 25/19/19 instead of this 25/20/20):

So it comes down to human+pali with:
+1 STR
+1 BAB)
+healability (20%)
+4 intimidate

or dwarf&monk with 90 HP more

is that clear-cut? It feels pretty comparable to me...