Frustrating Shroud run on March 31

[vVAnjilaVv]

as basically a new person to the game, I find the posts of some of you to be quite offensive. YES i am a n00b at raiding, but I am also willing to learn how to do things right. But when things dont' get explained and I'm expected to automatically know that there is no break in part 2 and 5 or 17 (for all I really know at this point) how am I supposed to conserve my SP when I'm not told when I'll be able to get it back. Am I supposed to burn what little plat I do have (new guy...no I don't have millions of plat yet) to keep some dumb **** elitest alive with scrolls and wands after I burn my SP up (seems to be a problem...even at level 9)? And how does waiting 2 minutes at part 2, 4 and 5 = an hour and a half of wasted time? And when most of what I see is lip .... what do you think I'm going to throw back....respect?

I'm not saying it's ur fault or anything....but if ur new to a raid, one of three things has to happen for u to expect to be treated with patience and respect......

The raid leader asks u if u have ever done the raid in PM before accepting u
The raid leader asks if anyone is new to the raid before u start in party chat
U make certain to let the raid leader and party now u have either not done or have little experience in the raid.

If one of these three things does not happen, u can probably expect to sometimes get harsh treatment if u don't perform tasks expected of you.

This aspect of raiding is highly unlikely to ever change.

[Kaelpind]

i work nights and i'm level 9....i don't raid. my statements were based off of reading others posts. i do know enough general etiquette to inform any party leader i do happen to get into that i'm new and don't know the run. some runs i do remember from when i first played and the cap was 10.4....but most of it is basically new to me. and one of these days i'll finally get off of my ass and actively look for a guild...but as it is now...i really offer nothing to a guild other than a new cleric who could be an ****** and give the rest of them a bad name.

[Samadhi]

And how does waiting 2 minutes at part 2, 4 and 5 = an hour and a half of wasted time? And when most of what I see is lip .... what do you think I'm going to throw back....respect?

Technically, it was 2 minutes at parts 1, 2, 4, 5 = 8 minutes total times 12 people = 96 minutes which is over an hour and a half of human life wasted.

When I am leading a raid, and someone lets me know they are new, I state exactly what is expected. Thanks for just assuming that we make you guess your way through though - this is exactly the attitude of "not reading" and assuming elitism that Sirea was alluding to earlier. You didn't actually read anything in this thread, as far as I can tell by your response, but are assuming a lot. If you can't read a simple 4 page thread - I'm not going to trust you when I start typing out Abbot instructions (which I have done many, many freakin times for new players we have carried through).

When I'm leading a raid, I typically always except unguilded, "personal" guilded, etc. players pretty much on a whomever is first to hit my LFM basis. If you fail to read/comprehend basic typed english, though, in a way that is noticeable enough that I can tell? Expect to be squelched plain and simple, even if it is something as simple as wasting 2 minutes buffing when I (as raid leader) specifically stated "everyone but ____ shrine, sHe has all buffs, haste and go."

[Kaelpind]

no....2 minutes on parts 1,2,4 and 5 = 8 minutes...now assuming that everybody is wasting the 2 minutes it would be a waste of the 96 minutes. but most ppl wont waste 2 minutes....they'll go ****, smoke, drink, jack off...do what ever their little hearts desire....just because you say it is "wasted" time doesn't mean that it is. and as for not fully reading or understanding what is in this forum topic...all i see is "whaa...new ppl suck", "whaa...if you aren't p2p you sucks", "nooo...some new ppl are good", "nooo...some f2p ppl are good", "i only run with my guild cause pugs suck", "i only lead pugs...if they fail i kick them and blacklist them and their pathetic guild" ...blah blah blah blah....same stuff different thread.

[Sirea]

no....2 minutes on parts 1,2,4 and 5 = 8 minutes...now assuming that everybody is wasting the 2 minutes it would be a waste of the 96 minutes. but most ppl wont waste 2 minutes....they'll go ****, smoke, drink, jack off...do what ever their little hearts desire....just because you say it is "wasted" time doesn't mean that it is. and as for not fully reading or understanding what is in this forum topic...all i see is "whaa...new ppl suck", "whaa...if you aren't p2p you sucks", "nooo...some new ppl are good", "nooo...some f2p ppl are good", "i only run with my guild cause pugs suck", "i only lead pugs...if they fail i kick them and blacklist them and their pathetic guild" ...blah blah blah blah....same stuff different thread.

You know, I was going to try and help you out with your first post, but I can see you're obviously set in your ways and that us "evil elitist zergers" are the bane of existence just because we know how to get **** done quickly and efficiently.

Kindly tell us the name of your precious cleric, and we'll make sure you never have to "suffer" through one of our runs.

oh BTW, those people who are eating up your mana and wands and scrolls and plat aren't "elitists", they're just bad players. Learn to know the difference. But if you keep up with that attitude more than likely you'll never run with most of the better players on the server, and will continue to stay in horrible groups with manasponge tanks who have no concept of things like healing amp, armor class, damage reduction, or healer's friend.

As for you being such a hurt, offended little new player who gets their lunch money taken by the mean "elitist" vets, don't you think some of us vets get a little tired of being painted as horrible, puppy-kicking, baby-eating, Devil worshiping people just because we know how to get **** done?

[RequiemVampie]

When I had read 'March 31st', I thought for a moment it might have been the one I was in, but it turns out it wasn't. I did 'try' to run a Shroud that night...but it was horrible. Where do I begin...

Part one was great. Fantastic DPS on the portals, a solid organized unit from portal to portal. The portals were going down in 19-26 seconds. Absolutely perfect.

Part two...it was like half the party had taken a stupid pill. Seriously, I kid you not. We had pulled the bosses five (yes, FIVE. As in 1..2..3..4..5! FIVE!!) times and we still not done. We had Fire, Cat, Kobold, and Trog. Difficult pull it can be and I've seen similar and done better than this nightmare. Lack of communication as to what was ready, people dealing the killing blow when it was not ordered to do so. By the time we had to do a 3rd pull, I had already made up my mind about not using any of my resources (I was playing my cleric) on the group.

So there we have both casters and both healers trying to get their SP back when they do the 5th pull. I sent a /tell to the leader and told him that I could not do this and that it should have been done the first time or at least the 2nd time. I then recalled and dropped party. The other healer was a guildie and she too was not impressed with what was happening. She dropped group as well and she talked me into going to the Harbor on a couple of lowbie toons to vent on some kobolds.

I almost wanted to log off for the night. I only get to play for a few hours at night after work during the week and that run almost made me quit for the night. It soured the mood and its not the first time and won't be the last. I usually just switch toons and go do something else.

/assissted rant off

/signed

[Kaelpind]

clerics name is .... drum rolll....... kaelpind ... yes i'm that unimaginative ... but it serves my purpose. and as for the puppy-kicking, baby-eating, Devil worshiping (freedom of religion...so worship away)....nah....i just figured ya'll were baby seal-clubing bastards (not really). seriously though....how many forum topics are there about bad runs because of these scrub ass new players (again...i am one of them)? no i'm not likely to change my views on the difference between elitest players and new players. most new players are probably given the benefit of a doubt (and yes i'm sure some of ya'll run and explain things to new players " http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=219205 ") but that doesn't change the attitude of the majority. yes the scurbs my levels are the ones burning up my precious wands, scrolls and few potions i do have...but you know what...most of those know these instances we're running alittle to well to be just "new players". manasponge tanks...yeah i've healed afew...yes it does suck. but i tend to stick it out to get that stupid finish box and quest complete (and xp).

[ChaelaAnne]

clerics name is .... drum rolll....... kaelpind ... yes i'm that unimaginative ... but it serves my purpose. and as for the puppy-kicking, baby-eating, Devil worshiping (freedom of religion...so worship away)....nah....i just figured ya'll were baby seal-clubing bastards (not really). seriously though....how many forum topics are there about bad runs because of these scrub ass new players (again...i am one of them)? no i'm not likely to change my views on the difference between elitest players and new players. most new players are probably given the benefit of a doubt (and yes i'm sure some of ya'll run and explain things to new players " http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=219205 ") but that doesn't change the attitude of the majority. yes the scurbs my levels are the ones burning up my precious wands, scrolls and few potions i do have...but you know what...most of those know these instances we're running alittle to well to be just "new players". manasponge tanks...yeah i've healed afew...yes it does suck. but i tend to stick it out to get that stupid finish box and quest complete (and xp).

They aren't complaining about new players. I have run with these people (Except underwearmodel, I still don't know who the f that is) and they are generally very patient with new people. They are complaining about new people who either DON'T let someone know they haven't run the raid before, or that don't follow instructions. They get just as ****ed off at 4 year vets that don't follow instructions. Those vets are just as likely to end up on blacklists as a f2p if they are tools.

[ChaelaAnne]

Also, Sirea, did he just post your own thread back to you to give you an example to strive for in being a good ddo vet?

[Kaelpind]

why yes i did post a link to her thread....not to show her that she offered help...but to prove a point that yes...some vets do offer help and try to explain things. i'm sure that all of the ppl that you know on the forums and have run with are great and outstanding people to run with...but since i haven't had the opportunity to run with them (and probably wont now that i've opened my mouth and expressed my opinion)...all i can do is to base my opinions off of what i read. and as for the 3 and 4 year vets getting listed....i haven't seen posts of that (granted i haven't gone further back in the forums than afew pages worth of posts).

[sgt.pendragon]

Seems like to many vets are turning into kids crying in the sandbox... we failed blame a f2p so i dont look bad. sad













www.kiss-clan.com

[Thriand]

Seems like to many vets are turning into kids crying in the sandbox... we failed blame a f2p so i dont look bad. sad













www.kiss-clan.com

who failed? and who blamed a FTP for said failure?

[Baranor]

... and will continue to stay in horrible groups with manasponge tanks who have no concept of things like healing amp, armor class, damage reduction, or healer's friend.

*on a completely unrelated side note*

was healing the shroud recently w/ a WF rog and after pt2 I asked him if he had any healers friend and his response was "I have 400 hp I dont need it"

my response was "you are so going to die and I'm not even sorry" and he did and I wasnt

[Sirea]

*on a completely unrelated side note*

was healing the shroud recently w/ a WF rog and after pt2 I asked him if he had any healers friend and his response was "I have 400 hp I dont need it"

my response was "you are so going to die and I'm not even sorry" and he did and I wasnt

Yeah, we had 3 WF melees in an epic Dragon once with minimal or no HF.

[lolwatboomer]

as basically a new person to the game, I find the posts of some of you to be quite offensive. YES i am a n00b at raiding, but I am also willing to learn how to do things right. But when things dont' get explained and I'm expected to automatically know that there is no break in part 2 and 5 or 17 (for all I really know at this point) how am I supposed to conserve my SP when I'm not told when I'll be able to get it back. Am I supposed to burn what little plat I do have (new guy...no I don't have millions of plat yet) to keep some dumb **** elitest alive with scrolls and wands after I burn my SP up (seems to be a problem...even at level 9)? And how does waiting 2 minutes at part 2, 4 and 5 = an hour and a half of wasted time? And when most of what I see is lip .... what do you think I'm going to throw back....respect?

Uh...

I'm more than sure that many of the vets you are directing this to, are more than willing to help new people understand raids. What you're not considering is new players that assume they're going to jump into a pug raid and know exactly what's going on, the ones that don't speak up when they need a hand.

Personally, the first ever shroud I've done... part 4 took more rounds I could keep track of, millions of pots were used, and soul stones littered the raid constantly. Did I complain that "OMG PEOPLE ZERGING KILLING EVERYTHING, etc."? No, I sucked it up and I took my time to learn it, and asked when I needed help. Not everyone starts the game as a "elitist" as you put it, and automatically knows what to do in elite/epic raids, and that has been acknowledged. Don't blame the veterans. Don't blame the "teachers that don't instruct", blame the "students that refuse to learn".

I'm surprised at your attitude towards Sirea, she's one of the nicest people I've met since I've entered DDO, and has done nothing but help new players.

[Magusrex777]

If you guys actually read some of our posts instead of dismissing us as elitist a-holes, we have a better strategy that doesn't require you to sit around with your thumb in your nether regions watching someone run back and forth in a pool.

Seriously, stop it. This ridiculous rhetoric is really starting to get to me. We present you with a better way, you call us elitists. So sorry we're trying to help you out.

And people wonder why some of us don't like teaching people, when all we get back is lip and attitude.

I agree that your strategy is better. No doubt. However, if someone still requests to have 2 MINUTES to be more comfortable in their role for whatever their reason is even after hearing your strat. Get a drink, get more mana, kiss their kid goodnight, move their bars around, especially a healer. I have been running things for 10+ years and have learned healers are scarce resource in all games so I treat them well. I will always have the tolerance or patience for someone who cares and wants to do their best. If you are hostile towards these people, insult them, or blacklist them, I do not think you are elitist, please do not put words in mouth. I just do not think you are a very nice person.

[Samadhi]

I agree that your strategy is better. No doubt. However, if someone still requests to have 2 MINUTES to be more comfortable in their role for whatever their reason is even after hearing your strat. Get a drink, get more mana, kiss their kid goodnight, move their bars around, especially a healer. I have been running things for 10+ years and have learned healers are scarce resource in all games so I treat them well. I will always have the tolerance or patience for someone who cares and wants to do their best. If you are hostile towards these people, insult them, or blacklist them, I do not think you are elitist, please do not put words in mouth. I just do not think you are a very nice person.

If neither myself, a guildie, or an ally guild is the party leader - I typically go along with whatever with barely a comment or word otherwise. "When in Rome." I can troll forums or spark a pipe while I'm waiting for them to get done twiddling their thumbs.

If you clicked on my LFM, though, then I will be expecting you to follow what the star instructs. I don't buy this "healers are holier than thou" logic that I routinely run into (not just from you by any means - from tons of folks in game). Playing a healbot cleric is typically the easiest freakin role in the game. If I'm not a nice person for leading raids effectively, so be it lol.