I use Tharnes for SA damage, you CAN get Earth IV, Wind IV, full Dark and full Cunning/Guile with halfling. But that is literally ALL your AP. I like to have the extra AP to spare when they come out for prestige line for monks. With the same build halfling comes out at about 60 less HP. And furthermore my extra feat goes towards my past life feat to make my fists 2d12 at level 20.Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome
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04-04-2010, 10:32 PM #21Community Member
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https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/487792-An-explanation-I-d-love-to-hear-but-likely-never-will?p=5993410&viewfull=1#post5993410
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04-04-2010, 11:00 PM #22Community Member
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Care to explain how? Originally Posted by Taimasan
I'll I'm seeing is -10, from not having Racial Toughness 3 available.
Plus a Halfling can get the same starting stats so you (12 STR, 17 DEX, 16 CON, 8 INT, 13 WIS, 8 CHA) and have 3 stat points left over. So you could put two of those into INT and one into WIS (getting the same skill points per level [if that's important to you] and saving you 6 APs from not having to pick up Monk WIS 3).
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04-05-2010, 12:24 AM #23Community Member
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Sorry it was about 30 hp diff., here is the halfling form of my build.
Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male (20 Monk) Hit Points: 324 Spell Points: 0 BAB: 15/15/20/2525 Fortitude: 17 Reflex: 20 Will: 15 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 12 14 Dexterity 18 25 Constitution 16 18 Intelligence 8 10 Wisdom 10 15 Charisma 8 10 Tomes Used +1 Tome of Strength used at level 1 +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1 +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1 +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1 +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1 +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 4 7 Bluff -1 4 Concentration 3 15 Diplomacy -1 0 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle -1 4 Heal 0 2 Hide 4 9 Intimidate -1 0 Jump 1 5 Listen 0 4 Move Silently 4 9 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a Repair -1 0 Search -1 0 Spot 0 2 Swim 1 2 Tumble n/a n/a Use Magic Device n/a n/a Level 1 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist Feat: (Selected) Toughness Level 2 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse Level 3 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting Level 4 (Monk) Ability Raise: DEX Level 5 (Monk) Level 6 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Dodge Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack Level 7 (Monk) Level 8 (Monk) Ability Raise: DEX Level 9 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting Level 10 (Monk) Level 11 (Monk) Level 12 (Monk) Ability Raise: DEX Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons Level 13 (Monk) Level 14 (Monk) Level 15 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Level 16 (Monk) Ability Raise: DEX Level 17 (Monk) Level 18 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Level 19 (Monk) Level 20 (Monk) Ability Raise: DEX Enhancement: Monk Serenity Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV Enhancement: Halfling Guile I Enhancement: Halfling Guile II Enhancement: Halfling Guile III Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV Enhancement: Static Charge Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey III Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey IV Enhancement: Touch of Death Enhancement: Fists of Iron Enhancement: Porous Soul Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame Enhancement: Winter's Touch Enhancement: Adept of Wind Enhancement: Grandmaster of Storms Enhancement: Master of Thunder Enhancement: Adept of Rock Enhancement: Grandmaster of Mountains Enhancement: Master of Stone Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Monk Concentration I Enhancement: Monk Jump I Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II Enhancement: Monk Wisdom IIIhttps://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/487792-An-explanation-I-d-love-to-hear-but-likely-never-will?p=5993410&viewfull=1#post5993410
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04-05-2010, 12:59 AM #24Community Member
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named it super man eh
more like super gimp Originally Posted by Taimasan
the only thing worth being finnese is a rogue because thats the only dps finnese that doesnt stink
halfling rogue assasin is THE only non gimp finnesse
sorry to burst your bubble take your head out of the sand hole and be aware that any finnese besides halfling rogue assasin 3 is gimp
if u want ac put it on an assasin 3 get a 1 monk lvl
halfing ac finnese rogues simp;lly owns this build and has dps on par with full bab str warrior classes on trash no strikes needed
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04-05-2010, 01:04 AM #25Community Member
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So any finesse build except rogue is gimp, roger that. Nice that you had to state the same thing 4 times. In every sentence except 1. Reading some of your posts im not surprised by this post from you, quite frankly, it seems like you may have some kind of mental illness. Originally Posted by Murderface
Last edited by Taimasan; 04-05-2010 at 01:07 AM.
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04-05-2010, 01:22 AM #26Community Member
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w/e bro facts are facts
halfling finnese rogue with a monk lvl on a 19/1 split is the best finnese dps in the game and has room for alot of ac Originally Posted by Taimasan
all other finnese is strictly for the gimply
of course thats my opinion
but if you play finnese on any other class or race you are just dead weight. and only moderately useful on trash when rogue halfling would be a much better choice on trash
this build does not pull its own weight switch to max str, 16dex, and min wis, cha, int then put all other points in con build fixed
otherwise dont post this build its wrong its very very wrong and if it were on paper u should burn itLast edited by Murderface; 04-05-2010 at 01:27 AM.
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04-05-2010, 01:29 AM #27Founder & Super Hero
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Agree with the 16 minimum Str part. Disagree with the 18 Str. To me, spending 16 build points for an 18 Str is a horrible waste of points especially considering the other stat/s that could use them, namely Wisdom which is the stat that would most likely suffer. I'm just not sure that extra 1 point of damage is worth losing the 3 AC, the +3 to Will saves, and the loss of 3 to DC checks for many Monk abilities. Lower Wisdoms also mean smaller Ki pools. Originally Posted by Hydro
Originally Posted by Aelonwy
This^, in so many words, is how you say time and feedback on Lamannia are wasted. Originally Posted by Cordovan
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04-05-2010, 02:20 AM #28Community Member
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I kind of got sucked into this one. But do agree with most posters that str is key for a monk. Arkat could you clarify this statement. I know constitution is con based which makes where your starting ki is. What exactly do you mean by Ki pools? Originally Posted by Arkat
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04-05-2010, 02:54 AM #29Community Member
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ok here it is
was thinking max str is kinda of dumb 6 points so this is what i would do instead Originally Posted by Arkat
10 points str all raises in str
10 points dex
10 points con
2 points wis
min min
gtwf, imp crit unarmed, power attack, unarmed focus and toughness for the rest of your feats
skills in jump balance tumble concentration not sure how many skills they get at 8 int but i would even them out between balance and tumble and get full jump and concentration
but it really does not matter with what skills u want just as long as those are your stats and feats
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04-05-2010, 02:55 AM #30Community Member
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max ki Originally Posted by Bosco
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04-05-2010, 04:11 AM #31Community Member
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I got 230 at level 18 starting with a 6 wis. I ate a +2 tome and use a + 6 item. 230 ki is more then enough ki pool for me.
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04-05-2010, 08:55 AM #32Community Member
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This argument seems to be over two different build philosophies that achieve similar goals in different ways. Whether or not a str build monk is better than a finesse monk in some marginal way does not excuse calling a finesse build the worst build ever. The finesse build has strengths that a str build can't match and the same goes for the str build versus finesse.
It is clear by looking at Taimasan's buikd that he values higher reflex saves and higher ac and dc's over a couple points of base damage per swing. His + to hit is going to be equal if not greater than a str build. I have seen no evidence of his build being a terrible or flawed or even worse than your examples.
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04-05-2010, 09:04 AM #33Community Member
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I was with you until there. I have read the whole thread (at the time of me writing this) before I came back to this, but I wanted to comment on the above statement. Originally Posted by Hydro
The Human Versatility damage AP is awesome if used correctly. Having an extra 5 damage per swing comes in very handy when you need short periods of burst dps. I use it to great effect on Harry and whatever the guy's name is in ToD part 2, or mindsunder crystal beating, or when I'm soloing the orthon boss at the end of Sins, or... whenever.
As far as the rest of this thread is concerned, yeah I'm in the 'strength is better' camp. As soon as I get kyosho's ring (only 7 more tods to go...) I'll probably be lesser reincarnating to bring down my dex (and a little more wis) to try to finish with a 28 or 30 Str before yugo pots, rage, madstone, titans grip clickie (hate having to remember to do that before madstone...). It really does make a huge difference, even now while I'm not a str build, when I have all those str boosts going (including my 'slow to activate' human versatility damage boost).
I do have a lingering concern about str builds though, as I grow more concerned with getting into epic groups. One of the nice things about finesse builds is that without too much effort you can have your dex sitting at 32 (or 34 or 36...) while in wind stance, helping to connect with the monsters in epics. I'm not sure that having a strength build that doesn't finish with at least a 30 or better before party/raid buffs will be that helpful if you can't hit the monsters. I know we can always spec for faithful hound, but it would be nice to not have to.kept alive by an i.v. drip of panda tears and angel blood
"Ah, but imagine . . . Imagine a world where no womb quickens, where no soul hopes!" --R.S. Bakker
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04-05-2010, 09:29 AM #34Community Member
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Humans don't have many advantages in min/maxing the points of a monk build hydro was pointing out. They have the versatility line however and that can be a big help, and human/greater adaptability is nice to even out stats.
I'd have to agree that the damage won't be there, but it is your build and if you're happy with ~50-55AC ~35-37 to hit at level 20 go for it.
Another note from personal experience... it sucks when the 1st number on your hit when you crit is below 100 and mediocre outfitted barbs go on about critting for 600+.
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04-05-2010, 10:00 AM #35Community Member
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I go Human for the Skill Boost to UMD.
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04-05-2010, 10:23 AM #36Community Member
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Well I know nothing about Monks, but I do know that Taimasan's monk has saved a complete party wipe several times in high level quest. He will be the only one alive carrying everyone's stone and fighting his way to a shrine.
Maybe the entire party was gimped but I think Taimasan just knows how to play his monk build.
The build is only one part of the total package. Gear is another. Luck (roll of the dice) is a big one. The most important I think is player know how. Each player needs to learn how to get the most out of their build, I do think Taimasan does this better then any other monk I have played with
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04-05-2010, 01:12 PM #37Community Member
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Ending at 36 dexterity with spectral gloves, your lowest roll will be a +37 to hit without any buffs. Seeing that this is the first attack in your chain i.e. thats +37 is gonna top out in high 40s by the last attack in the chain, your pretty much going to be consistently hitting in epics, and a Greater Heroism becomes icing on the cake, as a poster above me has mentioned, your strength is not going to mean much unless your at 30 or above on epics WITHOUT buffs. Especially when doing quests like offering of blood when you get dispelled, or ::gasp:: if you die. Mana/shrines are on short supply, that madstone rage clicky is gone, titan grip lasts a min, etc. etc. I would have to agree in epic quests, strength is king, because AC means nothing. But even more important than all of that, is being able to hit the mobs, so your strength better be ON POINT. And if you want Grandmaster Earth, Wind, and 30+ strength unbuffed without being in Grandmaster Fire, your gonna have a hell of a time getting there; and I would prepare to have a pretty below average AC on the way to level 20. Originally Posted by REALb0r3d
EDIT: And a good point I want to make is that in some instances I would say i would end up doing more dps than a person with say 30 strength next to my 38 dex, simply because, I hit more. I pull aggro all the time in epics. Not because im landing monster hits, rather I am hitting that mob on everything but a 1. And thats with no buffs.Last edited by Taimasan; 04-05-2010 at 02:44 PM.
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04-05-2010, 01:17 PM #38Community Member
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Wouldn't that be to have fun? Originally Posted by Hydro
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04-05-2010, 01:20 PM #39Community Member
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Originally Posted by Taimasan
From personal experience, he is.
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04-05-2010, 02:03 PM #40Founder & Super Hero
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Wisdom determines the maximum size of your Ki pool. The Concentration skill determines how fast it degenerates (assuming you don't use it and stop hitting things) and also how much Ki you can start with when you enter a dungeon. Originally Posted by Bosco
Originally Posted by Aelonwy
This^, in so many words, is how you say time and feedback on Lamannia are wasted. Originally Posted by Cordovan
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