The Epic Monk

[Hydro]

Also don't forget with the 3x earth finisher on a stunned mob, all your bursts go to 3d10.

I love Fists of Iron I saw a 168 point first number crit with that once on my past life, cant wait to try it out again with more STR and base damage.

[Hendrik]

I dont think weakening works in Epic's.

It does, however they are 'highly resistant'.

[Riggs]

5% weighted wraps will on average - stun something 1 in 20 hits say.

once stunned you start doing crit/burst damage on every hit.

So the math mostly comes down to - can you kill it with dps wraps in under 20 hits already? if so then weighted wraps are a waste of time. Stunning something that is only going to take 15 hits to kill - and having 5 other people hitting it twice each isnt any better than just killing it yourself.

but for anything that takes much longer than that to kill - weighted wins out.

[5thofnovember]

Ive found a nice set of Green Steel Lighting Strike kamas from the Shroud work great on Epic as does the X3 water kama set for all the fiery stuff, other than that save up those Holy, holy burst greater bane handwraps and throw icy burst on them all if and when they add the Ice games back in next year. They have hinted about more to come on seasonal festival stuff.

And as others have said TOD rings and sets will kick dps up a notch, Im still working on a few rings so its just a matter of time b4 I get enuff raids in to finish them. Between the Kamas from Shroud and the icy burst holy burst greater bane wraps Ive collected I do my fair share of dps, and if I'm running with a grp of heavy hitters I use my Pimped out 5% wgted wraps then switch to hvy dps wraps or kamas once mobs stunned.

Oh epic or elite high end stuff ac doesnt mean as much because if ur ac is high enuff to make a diff there ur suffering in lots of other areas that will affect you more, I know lots of ac build that rock in non epic stuff but the trade off for them is less combat abilities or enhancements or skill points for con related stuff so u can get ur hp up. and if you have less than 500hp after a monk tr your gonna die alot regardless of your ac, as at the end game being able to soak up a major hit or two til cleric can heal u becomes more important, For example if u fail a reflex save for epic traps ur ac dont mean a thing and if u make ur save and take half its still more that 500hp of dmg.

A 2x TRed monk can easily break 600hp and go higher with shroud hp item tier 3 and +3 con tome and exceptional con item

[Hydro]

5% weighted wraps will on average - stun something 1 in 20 hits say.

once stunned you start doing crit/burst damage on every hit.

So the math mostly comes down to - can you kill it with dps wraps in under 20 hits already? if so then weighted wraps are a waste of time. Stunning something that is only going to take 15 hits to kill - and having 5 other people hitting it twice each isnt any better than just killing it yourself.

but for anything that takes much longer than that to kill - weighted wins out.

Weighted wraps generally will go off way more frequently versus Vorpals since you get a chance no matter what number you roll.

And honestly I will gladly give up an extra 2d6 damage for a 5% chance to stun a mob and get insta crits.

[oweieie]

Weighted wraps generally will go off way more frequently versus Vorpals since you get a chance no matter what number you roll.

If you hit on a 2+:
Then every swing weighted has a 95% (to hit) * 5% (proc rate) = 4.75% to stun.
To Vorpal it's 5% (rolling a 20) * 95% (to confirm crit) = 4.75% to vorpal.

If you hit 10+ and have seeker 6 (bloodstone) then it becomes:
Weighted 55% (to hit) * 5% (proc rate) = 2.75% to stun.
To Vorpal it's 5% (rolling a 20) * 85% (confirm) = 4.25% to vorpal.

Vorpal is definitely better on harder mobs. The down side of vorpal is that you're a) doing a heck of a lot less damage with kama than with fist until it goes off, b) don't get flurry so swing slower. I still find I'd rather vorpal than use weighted on tough mobs that it can work on, especially since I can either turn power attack off to increase hit chance, or turn expertise on to increase my own AC but not reduce kill rate.

[Chai]

If you hit on a 2+:
Then every swing weighted has a 95% (to hit) * 5% (proc rate) = 4.75% to stun.
To Vorpal it's 5% (rolling a 20) * 95% (to confirm crit) = 4.75% to vorpal.

If you hit 10+ and have seeker 6 (bloodstone) then it becomes:
Weighted 55% (to hit) * 5% (proc rate) = 2.75% to stun.
To Vorpal it's 5% (rolling a 20) * 85% (confirm) = 4.25% to vorpal.

Vorpal is definitely better on harder mobs. The down side of vorpal is that you're a) doing a heck of a lot less damage with kama than with fist until it goes off, b) don't get flurry so swing slower. I still find I'd rather vorpal than use weighted on tough mobs that it can work on, especially since I can either turn power attack off to increase hit chance, or turn expertise on to increase my own AC but not reduce kill rate.

Many of the *harder mobs are *immune to vorpal and other death effects.

They are not immune to stuns

Who can swing 2 vorpals in the same amount of time a full blown wind stanced monk can punch 20 attacks? Maybe on a tempest 3 ranger with the extra hooks, but any other class, including monk, prob not.

[Riggs]

Weighted wraps generally will go off way more frequently versus Vorpals since you get a chance no matter what number you roll.

And honestly I will gladly give up an extra 2d6 damage for a 5% chance to stun a mob and get insta crits.

Yes?

Why is vorpals a discussion point for epic quests?

I used the 20 hits thing simply to point out that under 20 hits dps is better, anything over weighted is better...and for epic....its most likely going to be more than 20 hits....but is someone is thinking about lower level quests - then its just about figuring out the averages.

[Rabscuttle]

Besides the auto-crit, there is another large benefit to using weighted wraps. When a mob is stunned, it's not doing damage to the party, so the healers won't be using their resources until the next mob arrives

[oweieie]

Who can swing 2 vorpals in the same amount of time a full blown wind stanced monk can punch 20 attacks? Maybe on a tempest 3 ranger with the extra hooks, but any other class, including monk, prob not.

My non-exacting tests on the Planar Gateway in vale have monk fists doing about 42 swings in 10 seconds, kamas doing 40 swings in 10 seconds, and a staff doing 20 swings in 10 seconds. Thats at 20 in ultimate wind stance and GTWF.

The animation for fists is a lot faster, but thats not what the numbers actually show.

[Marr0w1]

thanks for the info then.
Also, with the earth finisher, does that just increase the crit multiplier for that one attack? therefore with bursts only being worth it if they are stunned?