Should Clerics Run Epic?!?!?

[Quikster]

That's the part where you are overstating. You aren't going to let them wipe while you still have resources (as evidenced by you didn't). I find that after one of those bad runs folks tend to be generous, but their definition of generosity is not really scaled to reality. I.e., I use a dozen pots on a bad run and I get back a couple of pots and some scrolls. Of course I'm buying pots with real world money that's barely pocket change so I don't really care, but different folks have different limits, and you aren't doing anyone any favors by pretending that healers don't spend somewhat more. They do. But as someone else pointed out earlier, they also get invites pretty easily without having the best gear already.

They can spen more by choice. My bards use more mana pots than any of my other alts, by choice.

When I didn't have the resources to spend, I didn't.

Last I checked the OP was talking about a smooth run, not a run from hell.

I've spent a ton of resources trying to get these quests figured out with friends and guildies, that's not the point, the point is many epic quests and raids can be run without using them now, thanks to people like matt and shade and many others who have spent their resources figuring out strats that work.

[Tummada]

I may have no life and too much time on my hands, but I'm not a loser who feels the need to quote myself.

I'm sorry if my experience is upsetting people. You run things different, fine, run it different. I run epic quests and raids nightly, often shortmanning them. We have about 30 people or more who regularly run these with us from about 6 guilds, as well as some pugs frome time to time. I'm not the best player on the server, heck I'm not even in the top 3 or 4 in my small guild. But I have not misrepresented, lied, or stated anything other than the facts based off my experience in this thread.

Funny though, for being a guy who supposedly plays a 1 trick pony in all these epic quests, and has to carried through 90 % of the games content, I'm a little suprised at some of the other responses in this thread.

Quikster please accept my apologies I didn't mean it as a direct insult to you. I was only trying to make a funny based off of what clanqui wrote. so I'm sorry. Players like you are extremely helpful bringing knowledge and depth to a seemingly mind boggling game.

tum

[Quikster]

Quikster please accept my apologies I didn't mean it as a direct insult to you. I was only trying to make a funny based off of what clanqui wrote. so I'm sorry. Players like you are extremely helpful bringing knowledge and depth to a seemingly mind boggling game.

tum

Oh none needed. I took the opportunity to take a shot at myself.

I'm totally ok with what's going on here, obviously my experience is different than others, and evidently some think I'm being misleading for it. Whatever its a discussion, hopefully we all take something away from it.

I think matt is starting to dislike me though, his responses to me over the past week or so are becoming a little insulting. I'm suprised actually as my guildie ran with him for a bit when we were frequenting Khyber and told me what a cool guy he is.

I on the other hand am an a-hole, but I'm usually a fun a-hole who doesn't mind being the punchline in order to bring humor to others, but meh whatever.

[Vyder]

For real 60 heal scrolls in an epic quest was a setback? Imagine if you ran with a bad pug.

[soupertc]

I am an a-hole

I Concur

[maddmatt70]

Oh none needed. I took the opportunity to take a shot at myself.

I'm totally ok with what's going on here, obviously my experience is different than others, and evidently some think I'm being misleading for it. Whatever its a discussion, hopefully we all take something away from it.

I think matt is starting to dislike me though, his responses to me over the past week or so are becoming a little insulting. I'm suprised actually as my guildie ran with him for a bit when we were frequenting Khyber and told me what a cool guy he is.

I on the other hand am an a-hole, but I'm usually a fun a-hole who doesn't mind being the punchline in order to bring humor to others, but meh whatever.

No not taking a dislike. My guildie Hallz has some good things to say at some point in time about you. I do dislike intimitanking as a philosophy I have experienced the formulaic ultra boring crud in other games and still do not know why people like that darn intimidate button - hate tanking is fine though.

Your point about the 20 pot run you mentioned is more what I am talking about that stuff happens. In a way stuff happening is good for the game otherwise it would get stale. Only thing I wish is it does not fall on the clerics quite as much as it does and/or they gave clerics some cool things like how about Domains for god sake and I want my divine metamagic quicken already.

I am pretty aggressive myself in game with going for stuff (example is Elite Tower raids with Sulu optional several times in last couple of weeks) and in a sense exhibit some massochistic behavior. I have been putting poor old Eury (a friend of mine in the TFC guild) through the wringer of late sigh. My bard Rabiez has incredibly resource waste potential written all over her but man she is great at getting the job done and is my favorite character.

[steeldocparker]

Ran my first epic Wizard King the other night with a good PUG group. Everyone except me belong to known guilds, all the melee characters seemed to be wielding some type of shroud crafted weapon, we had 2 level 20 clerics w/all the potency/arbor/wands/scroll's/pots needed for such a challenge. Everyone did their job very well even though at times the agro was thick and the fights were tough. Most of the mobs were beat down quick, the only real tough fights were at the switches and end fights. It's to be said that we completed the quest and everyone worked well together...Now being that this is an EPIC quest were most if not all monsters are level 30 and up I was expecting some real killer loot!!! I mean each chest should have 5k of plat and most of the gear top tear items, I mean after such a brutal challenging quest how can you expect anything less? So we open each chest and to my surprise the loot is no different then loot from a normal running w/devils chest!!! No large amounts of plat my super cool item was a superior potency VI item of witch I already have 3...ya there were a couple unique token and scrolls but come on...the amount of resources I burned on my cleric is fare greater then the loot I received and I mean by a LOT!!

I did not use a single mana pot during the whole run but I did burn some 60+ heal scrolls and im sure the cleric next to me used the same. So my question is should a cleric run epic quest since the cost to reward incentive is so lopsided?

And don't look to the melee as the issue they were not taking made damage often and not a single character stuck as being a mana sponge. the group was solid!!

tum

NO heal ur self - let me know if u dont want a cleric ill be more than happy to leave

[Barumar]

I did not use a single mana pot during the whole run but I did burn some 60+ heal scrolls and im sure the cleric next to me used the same. So my question is should a cleric run epic quest since the cost to reward incentive is so lopsided?

And don't look to the melee as the issue they were not taking made damage often and not a single character stuck as being a mana sponge. the group was solid!!

tum

Since I first skimmed it this morning, this thread has sure taken some interesting twists and turns.

Personally, I read this as the OP asking (in the Clerics forum) it is was worth it resource/rewards wise for a Cleric to run EPIC quests. Taking out potential of EPIC upgraded items, I would say no - go run Inspired Quarters quests and make some plat!

However, just as running Tower of Dispair is NOT worth it from a resource vs (loot) rewards perspective, that is not why I got my 9 competions on my Cleric before the change requiring boots (50 to 80 runs amongst all my characters, and I just got my first ingredient this week ). I did it to get and upgrade a tower Ring - and I am very happy with the results!

If your Cleric (or alts) has no desire to acquire an EPIC item, I would say you should stay away from epic quests - it is not the place to make plat. While some will argue that the epic scrolls do sell/trade well, it seems to me that only certain ones are really valuable, and just doing these quests to farm them is not a worthwhile investment.

There is also the challenge factor to EPIC's which I and others enjoy. Like others have stated, seems like true D & D to have to slow down and talk tactics and work as a team for a change. I have truly enjoyed (almost) every EPIC quest I have done.

And for those that say that Epic's are a breeze, take the first 5 random people you have never heard of/quested with into an EPIC quest sometime and tell me that was not a real challenge .

Barumar

[Quikster]

No not taking a dislike.

sure stuff happens, and no it shouldn't fall on 1 persons shoulders. When we first started this stuff I literally gave out hundreds of mana pots and thousands of scrolls. But I did that so guys like the op didn't have too. If he has to use 60 heal scrolls in a pug epic, honestly I don't care. It may sound harsh but sme of us have given out so much more than that so we could get some sound tactics down, between tod elite, epic dq, and epic von many of us gave out/used a bunch of consumables so those starting to run that stuff now don't have too.

As far as the intimi stuff, you made a blanket statement in a thread that was made for no other purpose than to show peeps that were asking me questions. You had no idea what else I do with that build, how it preforms or anything else. Which is why you got the response you got from me.

I don't subscribe to the max dps is the only way theory. I think we proved that during our shroud speed competition. We had 1 or 2 big dps builds and several finesse builds in our runs, and you guys came in 1 min faster after weeks of trying, eu came in 2 min faster on lag free servers.

Do some peeps really struggle on epic? yeah. But imo it isn't because the cleric doesn't have a stack of scrolls, its poor leadership, communication, tactics, and gear. There are plenty of epics that can be done with no resources by pugs.

[Quikster]

Since I first skimmed it this morning, this thread has sure taken some interesting twists and turns.

Personally, I read this as the OP asking (in the Clerics forum) it is was worth it resource/rewards wise for a Cleric to run EPIC quests. Taking out potential of EPIC upgraded items, I would say no - go run Inspired Quarters quests and make some plat!

However, just as running Tower of Dispair is NOT worth it from a resource vs (loot) rewards perspective, that is not why I got my 9 competions on my Cleric before the change requiring boots (50 to 80 runs amongst all my characters, and I just got my first ingredient this week ). I did it to get and upgrade a tower Ring - and I am very happy with the results!

If your Cleric (or alts) has no desire to acquire an EPIC item, I would say you should stay away from epic quests - it is not the place to make plat. While some will argue that the epic scrolls do sell/trade well, it seems to me that only certain ones are really valuable, and just doing these quests to farm them is not a worthwhile investment.

There is also the challenge factor to EPIC's which I and others enjoy. Like others have stated, seems like true D & D to have to slow down and talk tactics and work as a team for a change. I have truly enjoyed (almost) every EPIC quest I have done.

And for those that say that Epic's are a breeze, take the first 5 random people you have never heard of/quested with into an EPIC quest sometime and tell me that was not a real challenge .

Barumar

Don't forget, tod, epic dq, and epic von 6 are currently the only places to get +4 tomes.

As for first 5, I'd rather go with 2 others I know than get stuck with someone I don't like. (i don't like more people than I like usually).

I have also stated all along that good gear is required. Never have I stated that any 5 could walk through epoc quests, I have stated repeatedly that good gear, and sound tactics are required for an ez epic run.

[Kahuna68]

ya baby net profit of 2.2k plat or 12kgp that's some epic chump change...come on!!

Today's Lesson:
Pay attention in math class, kids.
Just throwing some levity into this thread!

[BlackSteel]

in a good group you can expect no scroll/pot usage on most epic quests. This is assuming you use quickened mass heal.

a bad group with bad strategies on the other hand can be very very very expensive

so personally I see np with clerics or fvs running in epic. If you dont have a fair amount of good gear on the other hand, you can expect to make up for it in resources used. But how is that different with anything else in the game?

[Thriand]

If 60 scrolls is too much for you there is always casual, its a good thing turbine gives us a choice, if you think its too much then don't do it. Personally I'd like to see epic be much harder than it is now but I think I'm in the minority.

[Quikster]

I agree. Epic should be harder, and have stated so in many threads. Though the token total should be changed as well. No need to make it harder an still make you grind 70 some odd tokens to make and upgrade 1 piece of gear

[Tummada]

Today's Lesson:
Pay attention in math class, kids.
Just throwing some levity into this thread!

and I thought that one slipped by unnoticed, thanks kahuna68 for pointing out my weaknesses

[Tummada]

If 60 scrolls is too much for you there is always casual, its a good thing turbine gives us a choice, if you think its too much then don't do it. Personally I'd like to see epic be much harder than it is now but I think I'm in the minority.

I never said it was to much

[Tummada]

I agree. Epic should be harder, and have stated so in many threads. Though the token total should be changed as well. No need to make it harder an still make you grind 70 some odd tokens to make and upgrade 1 piece of gear

so if you had to rate all the epic quest available from easiest to hardest were would wiz-king fall? Assumed the pug group is solid none of this "well it depends on the group ****"

[Quikster]

so if you had to rate all the epic quest available from easiest to hardest were would wiz-king fall? Assumed the pug group is solid none of this "well it depends on the group ****"

Not the easiest, but on that side of the spectrum. The end fight can be brutal in the wrong group, traps hit hard if peeps have difficulty avoiding them, 1s happen in any quest, but there some places in wiz king 1s can really suck. Lots of chests possible though. A good caster can clear just about the whole thing out with good strategy, you can use the seals to skip tough fights. Lots of shrines in it as well. It does take a little while to run through the whole thing though.

[Nezichiend]

The only thing bad about this run is that is was over 100minutes long.

P.S. I took up most of the healing

[Quikster]

The only thing bad about this run is that is was over 100minutes long.

P.S. I took up most of the healing

yeah sounds like with a few tactics you all woulda been out a little quicker and a little richer. Regardless, id pay 60 heal scrolls for a token all day long, anyone want to take me up on that