Warforged Juggernaut

[mediocresurgeon]

The developers have only made two specific comments on the Warforged Juggernaut presteige enhancement line: that they will have one, and that it will count as a barbarian prestige enhancement line if the warforged is a barbarian. I am glad to hear that one is in development, and wish to speed up the process by submitting my own draft of this iconic prestige class. This submission would not be mutually exclusive with the Ravager, Frenzied Berserker, or Occult Slayer prestige enhancement lines since it contains no abilities similar to or overlapping with the other paths.

3.5e Eberron Warforged Juggernaut Class Features:

• Immunity to nonlethal damage
• No longer subject to extra damage from critical hits
• Immunity to all mind-affecting spells
• Immunity to death effects and necromancy effects
• No longer subject to ability damage or ability drain

Analysis:
Most characters run around with immunities to critical hits and death effects, but immunity to curses (necromancy) would be very nice for several raids. Warforged rarely take ability score damage (usually just from wraiths and the troglodytes in Tower of Despair), but not having to worry about these enemies would be a plus. As an interesting note, the redundant fortification (100% base, +100% heavy fortification item) might have some interesting in-game repercussions, like being able to drink the +2 Int yugoloth potion without negative side effects, and a certain monk attack whose name escapes me.

• Expert Bull Rush
• Powerful Charge
• Charge Bonus
• Extended Charge
• Superior Bull Rush
• Greater Powerful Charge

Analysis:
I'm going to skip the details on exactly what each one of these abilities does, but it should be pretty clear to everyone that a warforged juggernaut has a pretty nasty charge and knockback ability. This could be incorporated as a minotaur-like charge ability, where a warforged juggernaut moves in a straight line, ignores impacts with enemies (moves through them as though they were incorporeal) and knocks them down and backwards if it moves through their spaces. (If you don't know what I am talking about, go fight some minotaurs.)

At 1st level, a warforged juggernaut grows armor spikes and gains proficiency in their use as a weapon. These adamantine armor spikes deal 1d6 points of piercing damage on a successful grapple attack. While the spikes cannot be removed, they can be affected by spells like any other weapon. At 4th level, the damage these armor spikes deal increases to 1d8.

Analysis:
Since grappling does not every occur in DDO, armor spikes could instead deal damage to enemies when the warforged juggernaut is struck in melee.


4e Eberron Warforged Juggernaut Path Features:

• Charging Action
• Charging Strike
• Construct Perfection
• Unstoppable

Analysis:
The functionality on the warforged juggernaut abilities charged a little bit (Construct Perfection no longer grants blanket immunities, but instead shortens the duration of any hostile effect on the warforged juggernaut), but the basic charge-and-destroy tactic is still the primary theme of the class.

• Ruinous Onslaught:
  Ruinous Onslaught is a attack a warforged juggernaut can use while charging. It does additional damage and dazes the enemy.
• Inexorable Momentum:
  Inexorable Momentum lets the warforged juggernaut ignore difficult terrain and through enemy squares.
• Crag of Steel:
  Crag of Steel is a stance that inflicts automatic damage against adjacent enemies, grants blanket damage resistance to all attacks, and near-immunity to enemy attacks which cause you to move (pushes, pulls, and slides).

Analysis:
The central theme of these attacks is very similar to the 3.5e attacks--maximizing one's ability to crash through enemy forces to break up their formations. Inexorable Momentum could be an activated ability which lets you charge through enemy squares and ignore slippery surfaces. Crag of Steel could be a stance which lets you ignore knockback attacks (like the ones giants and minotaurs have) and deals damage to enemies when they strike you (a "guard" effect).


Proposed Warforged Juggernaut Prestige Enhancement Line

Available to Warforged Level 6
Cost: 4 Action Points
Spent: 16 Action Points
Requires all of: Adamantine Body, Power Attack, Warforged Power Attack I
You have dedicated yourself to becoming an engine of destruction. You gain +50% Fortification and immunity to death effects and necromancy (as Deathward spell). You grow adamantine armor spikes, granting you immunity to slippery surfaces and dealing 1d6 peircing damage to enemies when you are struck with a melee weapon.

Available to Warforged Level 12
Cost: 2 Action Points
Spent: 42 Action Points
Requires all of: Warforged Juggernaut I, Warforged Power Attack II
You relish the act of running headlong into your enemies and driving them before you. You have +75% fortification and immunity to enemy attacks which knock you back. Your armor spikes improve, dealing 1d8 piercing damage to enemies when you are struck with a melee weapon. Your training allows you to crash through enemy lines.

Warforged Juggernaut II: Unstoppable
Usage: Active
Cost: 0 Action Points
Cooldown: 3 Seconds
You are able to trample over enemies and knock them back like a minotaur.

Available to Warforged Level 18
Cost: 2 Action Points
Spent: 66 Action Points
Requires all of: Warforged Juggernaut II, Warforged Power Attack III
You are the ultimate embodiment of mechanical strength and prowess. You are immune to harmful mind-affecting enchantments and enemy attacks which knock you down. Your armor spikes receive a damage bonus equal to your strength modifier.

[Ghoste]

I like it.

Death to all Fleshlings!!!

[MrCow]

Most characters run around with immunities to critical hits, death effects, and necromancy effects anyway.

No one has immunity to Bestow Curse, Symbol of Pain, Horrid Wilting, and other such necromancy spells.

but not having to farm for Boots of Anchoring on your warforged juggernaut would be very nice.

Blasphemy is an evocation.

The real powerhouse on this list would be immunity to mind-affecting enchantments (such as Greater Command, and possibly Blasphemy)

Don't forget immunity to Rage and Greater Heroism.

[mediocresurgeon]

No one has immunity to Bestow Curse, Symbol of Pain, Horrid Wilting, and other such necromancy spells.

Excellent point (I thought it was an enchantment, but I was incorrect). Curse Immunity would be really nice to have.

Blasphemy is an evocation.

Thanks. Corrected.

[Asketes]

hmmm..

i kind of like it, in some aspects it seems overpowdered and others it seems not so much.


Hard to say how it would really work in game?

Not sure how much people would use this while forgoing Frenzy Berzerker.

Bravo though, I would definitely check it out if something like this came out!

+1

[Roman]

Been speculating on this as well. Planning to TR my old CritII barb to a pure warforged fighter in anticipation of this pre. Would just be such a fun combo I think.

[Failedlegend]

Mostly agreed except it should be Immune to all HARMFUL mind-affecting spells (unless this is WAI as a downside to the bonuses) also barb are traditionally medium armor wearers so Adam Body doesn't really make sense but IIRC Comp and Mith are classed as light armor...oh well

Aside from that /signed

Edit: If it weren't for the Adamantine body requirement this would make a cool PRE (at least the 1st tier) for a 14/6 BardBarian (the 6 being Barbarian)

Note to Devs: Please if you incorporate ANY of this into your design do NOT make cleave a pre-req plz plz plz *begs*

[sirdanile]

I think you should split the fortification up so it's 25% each tier, slide immunity to slippery surfaces back to tier 2 or 3, while tier 3 seems decent I think that compared to the other two adding 10 extra guard damage alone doesn't add up to a tier 3 prestige enhancement.

[mediocresurgeon]

Mostly agreed except it should be Immune to all HARMFUL mind-affecting spells

Thanks for pointing that out.

also barb are traditionally medium armor wearers so Adam Body doesn't really make sense

"Wasting" a feat on Adamantine Body on a feat-starved barbarian would definitely be a sacrifice, and reason enough not to make Warforged Juggernaut mutually exclusive with barbarian PrEs.

I think you should split the fortification up so it's 25% each tier

The way it is written, a Warforged Juggernaut will get 100% fortification at level 12. Most people wear a Minos Legens at level 11 (and you can get a 75% fortification accessory RR WF at level 5), so I'd rather not push the fortification back any further.

slide immunity to slippery surfaces back to tier 2 or 3, while tier 3 seems decent I think that compared to the other two adding 10 extra guard damage alone doesn't add up to a tier 3 prestige enhancement.

I tried to match immunity to slippery surfaces to the acquisition of armor spikes, since it's the spikes granting the immunity to slippery surfaces. Also, making a guard based off of your strength score has the potential to be very powerful (though it is actually the only DPS increase this PrE currently has). Still, you might be right about the 3rd tier being somewhat weak...

[Failedlegend]

The way it is written, a Warforged Juggernaut will get 100% fortification at level 12. Most people wear a Minos Legens at level 11 (and you can get a 75% fortification accessory RR WF at level 5), so I'd rather not push the fortification back any further.

Besides weakening the first tier by moving an ability up to the other two is a very annoying practice and the many reasons I stopped playing WoW because their version of "balancing" is just that...Instead of coming up with something to improve class A to match class B its much easier to dumb down class B. In the end every Class/PRE sucks at everything there ya go Balanced :P

Really the main reason I play DDO (aside from it being DnD) is that no one cares if one class is better than the other in a certain area because thats the way its supposed to be and really regardless of strengths the classes depends on each other (Although some can hack it alone a GOOD group will always fair better)

"Wasting" a feat on Adamantine Body on a feat-starved barbarian would definitely be a sacrifice, and reason enough not to make Warforged Juggernaut mutually exclusive with barbarian PrEs.

Oh so this is a WF PRE not a Barb PRE

Also, making a guard based off of your strength score has the potential to be very powerful (though it is actually the only DPS increase this PrE currently has).

Agreed especially if coupled with a barbarian (even with the need for Adam Body) this ability alone could make Juggernaut a contender for Frenzied Barb the rest making the already resilient WF almost Indestructible. (Seems like this this PRE should have some Tank-like abilities...maybe a boost to intimi or some untyped DR/-..yes stacking DR )

[Roman]

"Wasting" a feat on Adamantine Body on a feat-starved barbarian would definitely be a sacrifice, and reason enough not to make Warforged Juggernaut mutually exclusive with barbarian PrEs.

Makes more sense to take this racial pre as a warforged fighter anyway. No reason for a barbarian to take it over the other pre's.

[Failedlegend]

Makes more sense to take this racial pre as a warforged fighter anyway. No reason for a barbarian to take it over the other pre's.

I have to disagree while Frenzied Barb is a great PRE and the Adam body might be hard to fit in with a Barbs Immense ability to jack up his Str stat the Adamantine spike ability could be a formidable effect w/o the self damaging (Thinking healers will appreciate this )...but that's just IMHO

[Trillea]

My WF FvS would LOVE this PrE!!

[mediocresurgeon]

My WF FvS would LOVE this PrE!!

I hadn't considered this PrE for a FvS. It might actually work out very well for them.

[gavagai]

I think fidelity to the 3.5 version would have it like this:

Tier I: Armor spiked, Construct Perfection I (+75% fort), knockdown bonus (+2 for each tier, to roughly balance with the +1 per level of Juggernaut bonus from PnP)

Tier II: Spiked Armor upgrade, Construct Perfection II (mind-affecting spell and ability immunity), charge attack with +2 attack bonus, -50% healing amp.

Tier III: Spiked Armor upgrade (maybe a fraction of total strength bonus; full STR is too much IMO), Construct perfection III & IV (death effects and ability drain), improved charge attack (double STR bonus to damage?)

The healing penalty is pretty harsh, but better than the "Immunity" from PnP. Some healing penalty should be balanced with the broad immunities the PrE grants. I'm sure the offensive capabilities would have to be very good to justify it.

I'm not sure about permanent slippery/push-pull immunities; but maybe a 20 second boost would be good. Giving stacking DR as well. The PrE costs are too light to justify giving it the best of the HotD and Acrobat lines combined, and more.

[Rusty_Can]

My WF FvS would LOVE this PrE!!

I read somewhere that Juggernauts receive an increasing resistance to divine healing; if this is true, divine casters and Juggernaut PrE wouldn't blend very well.

OTOH, Juggernaut would be a decent option for arcane battlecasters, provided they manage to handle the ASF caused by Adamantine Body.

[mediocresurgeon]

Thanks for your thoughts, Gavagai!

-50% healing amp

I'm sure the offensive capabilities would have to be very good to justify (the harsh healing penalty)

Nobody likes being hard to heal. That's why very few people are impressed with Pale Master, virtually nobody takes the Improved Fortification feat, and why Bladesworn Transformation is underutilized. Adding on a healing penalty in DDO is much different than adding a healing penalty in PnP since 99% of players do not play in static groups. The PrE currently does not add any strong offensive abilities in the traditional sense (+attack, +dmg, +crit) which means that its added offensive abilities are purely situational (must be attacked with a melee weapon).

Wizards of the Coast knows that healing penalties are a bad design. This is why Warforged do not have the -50% healing penalty in 4e and why the 4e Warforged Juggernaut does not make them immune to curative magic.

Giving stacking DR as well.

Incorporating stacking DR into a tier 3 stance could work.

The PrE costs are too light to justify giving it the best of the HotD and Acrobat lines combined, and more.

Most players don't play these PrEs at endgame though, because these immunities are not that outstanding overall. (Yes, I know they have a few fights where they shine, but these are few and far between.) And for the sake of argument, the healing amp is the "best of the HotD," since that's the only benefit you get from most content.

[Failedlegend]

Nobody likes being hard to heal. That's why very few people are impressed with Pale Master, virtually nobody takes the Improved Fortification feat, and why Bladesworn Transformation is underutilized.

Wizards of the Coast knows that healing penalties are a bad design. This is why Warforged do not have the -50% healing penalty in 4e and why the 4e Warforged Juggernaut does not make them immune to curative magic.

oh great spirit of Gygax please instill this point into the Devs minds (Mind you I like PM and see Eladrin's Post for some PM fixes in update 5)

Incorporating stacking DR into a tier 3 stance could work.

(Seems like this this PRE should have some Tank-like abilities...maybe a boost to intimi or some untyped DR/-..yes stacking DR )

Agreed :P

I hadn't considered this PrE for a FvS. It might actually work out very well for them.

Aside from the obvious ridiculousness (trust there's a point...eventually) and the pre-reqs being entirely useless to said class...this would be somewhat useful on a WF Wiz...I know I know I'm crazy but hear me out.

Immunity to nonlethal damage (also immune to crit same idea)

If this means immunitty to hits that are less than your current HP (I have a feeling it doesn't or its crazy OP than this would be a great boon to this 0 defense/dr class especially dancing in a firewall (Gygax help us if monsters ever learn the skill jump)


Immunity to harmful mind-affecting spells

Greater Command is the bane of my WF Wiz/Rog's existence.


Immunity to slippery surfaces (and I guess piercing guard

Allows you to drop balance completely (would let me replace balance with spot) and would let you dance in your own grease,etc. spells increasing solo ability. Oh and the p-guard part is nice if not very useful to a class thats avoids damage like the plague :P


The Point

OK now that display of ridiculousness is over..the point...this PRE would be useful to most classes in some way or another although Bards,Wizzes,etc. would need to find APs for both the PRE and the ASF reduction (but at least bards already have to take PA for WC)

[Ghoste]

Oh so this is a WF PRE not a Barb PRE

Whatever the Pre ends up looking like, it has long been official that Turbine will make it a WF Pre, not barb.

[Failedlegend]

Whatever the Pre ends up looking like, it has long been official that Turbine will make it a WF Pre, not barb.

Oh cool It just seemed like a Barb type thing to me (feels very ragey) that's what I get for assuming...oh well...can someone link me too that list of coming PREs I wanna bookmark it for future reference (to avoid things like this ) and my search-fu is failing

Also Ghoste just noticed you Signature...tru nuff