seeking advice for a Crossbow Rogue

[BLugas]

^Yeah...
Since the lag this weekend made the game unplayable, I decided to have some fun with the Build Planner, and i ended up making an interesting, yet unrevised, 18 Rogue/2 Fighter build, which is crossbow based.
Take a look:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Aymara Quechua
Level 20 Chaotic Good Drow Female
(2 Fighter \ 18 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 220
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 21
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            20                    30
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         16                    16
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               9                    33
Bluff                 0                     6
Concentration         1                     1
Diplomacy             0                     0
Disable Device        7                    32
Haggle                4                    23
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  9                    41
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  3                    22
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         9                    41
Open Lock             9                    35
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                     3
Search                7                    28
Spot                  3                    28
Swim                 -1                    -1
Tumble                9                    17
Use Magic Device      4                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Heavy Crossbow


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Rapid Shot


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Spot II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II

and before anyone calls me a noob;Yes, I am fully aware that to Sneak Attack with ranged weapons you have to be 10 meters or less from your target.
One interesting thing that I found out is that Attributes & Skill enhancements from class and from race actually stack, which is very interesting.
and Yes, I know I spent too much points on intelligence and in some useless skills/one point wonders (Haggle and Tumble);and that I have no Mêlée feats...

Too bad that Kobolds are not a Playable Species...

Any comments?

[AMDarkwolf]

Not trying to sound like a troll or make a flame.. but don't.


A crossbow rog will be more frustrating than you can expect, and that's from YOUR end, not the OTHER group members trying to 'save you' as you backpedal away from the mob while you slowly ping ti to death. Consider yourself a VERY VERY gimped ranger(who also cause much frustration to the melee's int he party as they chase their mobs everywhere while they slowly plunk it to death, and that's a 'high dps' arcane archer were talking about here)

Ranged combat in ddo is fail at best, and its even worse as a rog.

[CSFurious]

you will be able to level this build for a while & then you will stop playing it when you cannot get past level 11 to 12 with (if you can even get that far)

the only class that should be engaging in ranged combat is a pure ranger who is an arcane archer & even that build will have trouble PUGGING

later

[devaneto]

try rogue with repeater

[gavagai]

Any comments?

I think Rogue is a suboptimal choice for a xBow specialist, although if you want an interesting build you can check out Impaqt's Repeater Rogue. If you can get it to work, though, the 10d6 Sneak Attack per shot (within 30') and the potential vorpal strikes should be fun enough.

IMO the best choice for a xBow specialist is a Fighter/Cleric or Fighter/Bard. 16 caster levels for modest group functionality with a solid +11 (Cleric) or +10 (Bard) damage from as far back as you want.

Cleric 16/Fighter 4:
Divine Favor: +3 to hit and damage
Divine Might: +6 damage
Fighter 4: +1 to hit, +2 Damage (Focus & Specialization) as well as feats to get Rapid Shot, Rapid reload, Exotic: Heavy Repeater Crossbow (or light).

Bard 16/Fighter 4:
Warchanter Song: +7 to-hit/+8 damage
Fighter 4: as above

Back in the day MrCow offers a Machine Gun Nun build that was a 13Cleric/2Monk/1Fighter (when cap was level 16), not sure how that went.

Definitely flavor builds, tho. Any likely to become even moreso with Tier III PrEs

[MrCow]

Back in the day MrCow offers a Machine Gun Nun build that was a 13Cleric/2Monk/1Fighter (when cap was level 16), not sure how that went.

It isn't a character I've played much since module 9, but I still have quite a bit of fun with its versatility. It can work just about any group, but like any jack-of-all-trades it won't make a striking impression at any specific task.

The combination of Blade Barrier with Improved Precise Shot ranged attacks is quite enjoyable. Now if only maladroit was on repeaters...

[chodelord]

except the stupid AA "fix" removed arcane archer imbues from non-bow weapons, leaving my rogue/fighter with a useless wizard level and unable to get assassin 3

but im not bitter.....

[Tribe33]

^Yeah...ist viable now.. these 2006 posts are obsolete..
Any comments?

i would suggest either a drow or a gnome .. as gnomes dont take the con hit.. probably best.
---
1st life - 28pnt build drow
rogue 18 / artificier 2

str 8
dex 16 (6pnts)
con 14 (10 pnts)
int 16 (12pnts)
wis 8
cha 10

-- enhancement tree
mechanic - 40ap - max out t5 (x3 in scavenge)

basically keep your int as high as possible, your get 3rd core int for dmg as a rogue
you dont have to waste feats on xbows as they come with enhancement tree
--
feats
point blank shot
rapid shot
rapid reload
precise shot
imp critical ranged

are the basics


while under 12th i was using harper to get the int bonus to xbow .. then swapped it out once the mech rogue enh kicked in.

[Enderoc]

Elven cores increase the range on missile fired sneak attacks, and 2 arty is a better choice than 2 fighter. Also you want to get a natural dex (tomes apply here only) high enough for combat archery. So yeah intelligence to damage is cool, but combat archery is a must I think so factor that in first before going all in on intelligence.

[psykopeta]

i would suggest either a drow or a gnome .. as gnomes dont take the con hit.. probably best.
---
1st life - 28pnt build drow
rogue 18 / artificier 2

str 8
dex 16 (6pnts)
con 14 (10 pnts)
int 16 (12pnts)
wis 8
cha 10

-- enhancement tree
mechanic - 40ap - max out t5 (x3 in scavenge)

basically keep your int as high as possible, your get 3rd core int for dmg as a rogue
you dont have to waste feats on xbows as they come with enhancement tree
--
feats
point blank shot
rapid shot
rapid reload
precise shot
imp critical ranged

are the basics


while under 12th i was using harper to get the int bonus to xbow .. then swapped it out once the mech rogue enh kicked in.

How do u necro a 2010 thread? I mean, what's in ppl's mind to step in a 6 year silent thread and start talking like... Dunno, confusing it is

[Enderoc]

except the stupid AA "fix" removed arcane archer imbues from non-bow weapons, leaving my rogue/fighter with a useless wizard level and unable to get assassin 3

but im not bitter.....

deep wood sniper dude, and spellcraft is important again at level 30. And trust me you can get better all the time damage with being a scion of an elemental plane than just a few d6's in sneak attack only.

[Careall]

5th life now using the basic formula: Rogue 6, Ranger 6, __________ 8 with a great xbow.
My final life will probably be Rogue 6, Ranger 12, Fighter 2 (for the tank).

Int-based. Both Mech and DW Sniper core enhancements extend your PB and BS range. I take the mech's tier 5 enhancements. At-level elite quests (e.g. level 13 doing a level 11 elite quest), I am killing most mobs, even champs, in approximately 1.5 shots, and I am trying to get that closer to a one-shot-one-kill ratio. At around level 10-12, I stop using vorpal bows because I can regularly damage-kill targets about 50% of the time in one shot and would rather have something more useful than vorpal in that slot, particularly against bosses.

I know how annoying a back-pedalling caster or archer can be, so I've made this build so it can take the hits. Current life is a barbarian and no need to back-pedal in most cases. In fact, just ran Diplomatic Impunity and tanked the end boss (much to my surprise) while another rogue ran around disabling the traps! Previous lives included wizard (zombie PM form), monk (no benefits to the build, but still worked), and fighter. None of which needed to back-pedal much. Can also solo quite well with usually no need for a hire.

For the most part, the only class I cannot regularly out-kill in groups are warlocks (surprise!), and I am about on par (give or take depending on the build/player) with barbarians if I can steal their kills before they can get 'em.

What do you need?
Collect a lot of Great XBows. Tendon Slice, Deception, and Ghost Touch/Ghost Bane, are useful slot fillers.
High Int.
A wand of fire arrow and UMD to use it.
Rapid Reload (and Rapid Shot, which comes free with Ranger)
Precise Shot (free with Ranger)
Precision
100%+ Fortification, Piercing damage reduction (Spearbane from Korthos will work just fine until something better comes along), PRR and MRR.
Harper Strategic Combat 1 (you can also pick up some other useful stuff in this tree, but I usually don't have room for it).
For Ranger Favored enemy, select Undead since many are resistant to piercing damage and you may be fighting them a bit longer. I take Dragon as my second because - Dragons!
Improved Precise Shot can move you well into a three-kills-one-shot category (with some practice)!

Focus on dealing ranged damage, BS dice and damage, and first three of each Mech and DWS core abilities (+30 meters PB and BS range).
Ranged Alacrity, Seeker, Improved Vorpal (19-20 tier 5 Mech enhancement), Improved Critical - Ranged, and Double Shot are also important.
UMD, Disable Device, Search, Spot, and Open Locks are next, in that order.
Healing and Haggle are useful skills too. Buy lots of healing pots, then get some healing with Ranger levels.
Ignore Hide and Move Silently. You don't need to sneak up on much of anything because you can shoot it before it can see you and still get your BS damage. Giants are pretty much the only thing that can see me before I can shoot them, but not always.

You can balance the stats (besides Int), just favoring Con and Dex a bit. Keep Strength reasonable, but not too high. You can pump it up significantly with Bull's Str, Rage Pot, Rams Might, and a few other options.
The Insightful Reflexes feat seems like it might be useful, but I haven't taken it yet.

[vampiregoat69]

Not trying to sound like a troll or make a flame.. but don't.


A crossbow rog will be more frustrating than you can expect, and that's from YOUR end, not the OTHER group members trying to 'save you' as you backpedal away from the mob while you slowly ping ti to death. Consider yourself a VERY VERY gimped ranger(who also cause much frustration to the melee's int he party as they chase their mobs everywhere while they slowly plunk it to death, and that's a 'high dps' arcane archer were talking about here)

Ranged combat in ddo is fail at best, and its even worse as a rog.

you never played a rogue mechanic then I made 2 and they rocked and I was not running and screaming like a little girl kiting monsters with my great crossbow, I killed so much faster.

[unbongwah]

Great thread necro! But I don't see how a 6 1/2 year old thread could possibly be relevant toda-

Since the lag this weekend made the game unplayable

....ummm, never mind.

[Jasparion]

Great thread necro! But I don't see how a 6 1/2 year old thread could possibly be relevant toda-

....ummm, never mind.

I like it. It is fun to go back at the old threads and look at the "silly" builds which today are totally OP. To people posting here, look at the OP date before responding to old comments.

In terms of new comments, Crossbow Rogues are brilliant.