Question about 12 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger builds

[Bolo_Grubb]

what is the optimum levels to take which class?

I know I should level 1 as rogue, but after that I am not sure how to maximize the various class strengths to get the most out of this build.

I do have 32 point builds, and I am pretty sure I know what I want my stats to be. So really just need some advice on which class at which level.

Thank you

[Artos_Fabril]

take your second rogue level when your UMD and DD fall behind by a combined number of points equal to the number of skillpoints you get per level. (or just UMD, if you're not going to bother with disable. Use ranger levels to max out search and bump up your other skills. If you'd mentioned your stats, or at least your int (8 or 10 I imagine) and weather you plan to go human or not (extra skill point per level) as well as which skills you intend to focus on, that would help people to give you better advice.

a 16/16/16/10/8/8 human can keep either DD or UMD maxed at every level, and alternate ftr and ranger levels 2-13 to keep the other and Search maxed as well, then take the other 6 ftr levels straight and top off with rog to clean up skills, but ti's still not an ideal distribution to get everything maxed.

Essentially, we can only give you rough answers without more information. Are you only taking rog for UMD and evasion (this is easy to work in)? do you want to max out TWF as early as you can(1rog,6rng, 6ftr,1rog,6ftr)? What tomes are you planning on using?

[Bolo_Grubb]

Planning on human 32 point build and I was thinking this for stats 16/15/16/12/8/8.

I want to get max attack speed with tempest and kensai enhancements, evasion, and as much trap and UMD skill as I can.

I want to be sure to take the right class at the right levels to get max skills and feats. I have never tried a multi-class before so I am trying to do my research before I create.

I also have vet status so I can take this character right to level 4 before I even swing.

Not sure yet about weapon, but a lot of consideration is being given to khopesh, but I am open to ideas.

[Artos_Fabril]

Khopesh will eat up a feat, but that's not a great concern with 7 extra feats coming from fighter, they provide the best damage against crittable mobs up to 75% fortification. The big concern, if you're not stacked for cash, is that they're the most expensive weapons for the exact same reasons.

If you're not adverse to collecting up dragonshards for a few feat swaps, or are willing to let your DPS lag a little bit in the mid-game in order to optimize your end-game feat and skill alocation, I'd suggest:
1rog,2rng,1 ftr (vet) then ftr, rng, 2ftr, rng, 2ftr, rng, 3ftr, rng, 3ftr, rog. The problems with that are that you don't get evasion until 20, and you either have to respec feats to get the later TWF enhancements when they become available and then get rid of them when you get ITWF free from ranger, or wait until way too late to get ITWF/GTWF, which just sucks, but it would leave you with optimized skills at level 20.

It looks like you're planning on at least a +2 dex tome ~level 7, if you can get an int tome too you can play with the levels a little more, but even with 14 int you could only keep DD and UMD at max ranks on your fighter levels. You might still be able to get away with it after level 15, when you can get a +15 search item to augment your search, but find out what the trap search DCs you need to hit are (and ignore the stupidly high DCs on the Cabal trap on Elite and Epic VON 5 traps, as you need overspecialize to hit those at-level even on a pure rogue)

[Bolo_Grubb]

Khopesh will eat up a feat,,,The big concern, ,is that they're the most expensive weapons,,,

My main is a TWF khopesh user, so I am aware of there cost, but lucky for me I have saved a few of the lower level ones

If you're not adverse to collecting up dragonshards for a few feat swaps, or are willing to let your DPS lag a little bit in the mid-game in order to optimize your end-game feat and skill alocation, I'd suggest:
1rog,2rng,1 ftr (vet) then ftr, rng, 2ftr, rng, 2ftr, rng, 3ftr, rng, 3ftr, rog. The problems with that are that you don't get evasion until 20, and you either have to respec feats to get the later TWF enhancements when they become available and then get rid of them when you get ITWF free from ranger, or wait until way too late to get ITWF/GTWF, which just sucks, but it would leave you with optimized skills at level 20.

I have no problem saving the shards up, but the cost is kinda of high at level 20. I could always just lesser reincarnate though. Could you please explain your reason for the class progression you are suggesting? Just so I can understand. I would like TWF as soon as possible but can wait if given good reason.

It looks like you're planning on at least a +2 dex tome ~level 7,

I am planning on a +2 tome to all stats at level 7.

ignore the stupidly high DCs on the Cabal trap on Elite and Epic VON 5 traps, as you need overspecialize to hit those at-level even on a pure rogue)

not even going to worry about those types of DC

Thanks for the information. I look foward to your response about class progression.

[Artos_Fabril]

I have no problem saving the shards up, but the cost is kinda of high at level 20. I could always just lesser reincarnate though. Could you please explain your reason for the class progression you are suggesting? Just so I can understand. I would like TWF as soon as possible but can wait if given good reason.

Essentially, I'm suggesting that progression because you use the ranger levels to increase search as a class skill, and you can respect feats but not skills. So you can, for instance, take ITWF at 8 as a fighter feat and GTWF at 12, and then trade out ITWF at 16 when you get it free from ranger 6. You could even take the rogue level before 20, but then you either push the last ranger level to 20, or lose 2 points of search (which might not be a big deal, not sure if there's a break point you'd fall on the wrong side of with 21 vs 23 ranks. Unless you're using a +3, an LR won't allow you to switch levels to optimize your skills though.

1rog,2rng,1 ftr (vet)

Actually, it'd be even better do do this as rog rng ftr rng or rog ftr rng rng
Human, 12 int, rog level 1: 40 skill points: DD UMD OL Search; pick 6 more. I like haggle, tumble, jump, balance, spot (unless you know where traps are without it, some people just have them memorized) and one other. Intim maybe, or diplo, but you're gonna be short on it to be useful.
level 2 ftr, 4 points: 2(1)DD, 2(1)UMD
level 3 rng, 8 points: 2(1)DD, 2(1)UMD, 2 search, 2(1)OL or 2 Spot
level 4 rng, 8 points: 2(1)DD, 2(1)UMD, 2(1) OL, 1 search, 1 Spot (or Jump)

ftr, rng, 2ftr, rng, 2ftr, rng, 3ftr, rng, 3ftr, rog

5 ftr, 4 points: 2(1)DD, 2(1)UMD
6 rng, 8 points: 2(1)DD, 2(1)UMD, 2 search, 2(1)OL or 2 spot
7 ftr, 4 points: 2(1)DD, 2(1)UMD
8 ftr, 5 points: 2(1)DD, 2(1)UMD, 1 Jump or Intim
9 rng, 9 points: 2(1)DD, 2(1)UMD, 3 search, 2(1) Balance or 2 spot (no need to max OL unless you're trying to hit the 91DC lock in epic VoN1
**At this point you can use most restricted gear (DC 20 or less, generally) with SF:UMD, Cartouche, and a +4cha item**
10&11 ftr 5 each: 4(2)DD, 2(1)UMD, 4(2)Balance,
12 rng, 9 points: 2(1)DD, 4(2)UMD, 3 search
13-15 ftr 5 each: 6(3)DD, 6(3)UMD, 2(1)Balance, 1 Jump
**here you have your +15 DD,OL,Search,Spot items (15 normally, 13 race restricted with UMD)
16 rng, 9 points: 2(1)DD, 2(1)UMD, 3 search, 2(1)Balance or 2 spot
17-19 ftr 5 each: 6(3)DD, 4(2)Balance, 5 Jump
20 rog, 11 points: 1DD, 4UMD, 4 search, 2 balance or spot

[Bolo_Grubb]

ok makes sense, thanks for the info